In principle, there's no reason a set of devices cannot remake themselves, so long as the chain of devices is sufficently long.I dont think there's a question that a machine that knaps glass blades from raw sand could be used to mill wooden forms to produce technoligy that's needed for technoligy to create a glass-knapping machine. The question is simply, how short a chain can we make?
Quote from: rakaydos on 06/17/2018 06:17 pmIn principle, there's no reason a set of devices cannot remake themselves, so long as the chain of devices is sufficently long.I dont think there's a question that a machine that knaps glass blades from raw sand could be used to mill wooden forms to produce technoligy that's needed for technoligy to create a glass-knapping machine. The question is simply, how short a chain can we make?An example of devices that can create more of themselves are plants. These can be a sustainable item that would be able to create many of the things needed on a self sufficient Mars. By editing of DNA (on Earth before they are sent to Mars) we can create plants which will fulfill a purpose on Mars, previously filled by complex unsustainable machines.
Quote from: colbourne on 06/18/2018 07:00 amQuote from: rakaydos on 06/17/2018 06:17 pmIn principle, there's no reason a set of devices cannot remake themselves, so long as the chain of devices is sufficently long.I dont think there's a question that a machine that knaps glass blades from raw sand could be used to mill wooden forms to produce technoligy that's needed for technoligy to create a glass-knapping machine. The question is simply, how short a chain can we make?An example of devices that can create more of themselves are plants. These can be a sustainable item that would be able to create many of the things needed on a self sufficient Mars. By editing of DNA (on Earth before they are sent to Mars) we can create plants which will fulfill a purpose on Mars, previously filled by complex unsustainable machines.That's true on earth, but unless you can build a pressure vessel out of sap or have the plant breath near vacuum, you're going to need a bit more than that for mars.
Having knapped glass and obsidian as well as having milled wood, I can tell you that a knapping machine will never be able to mill. Knapping involves concentrated pressure with a relatively blunt soft tool while milling wood uses a very hard tool to cut fibers.But that does bring up the possibility of using Neolithic tools sourced from local resources.
Clock work mechanisms can do most anything.
Any such solution will consume much more power than more advanced chips.
Quote from: guckyfan on 06/20/2018 07:12 pmAny such solution will consume much more power than more advanced chips.If you can manufacture primitive solar collectors, power isnt an issue. Run your 3d-printed 3D printer on circuit boards and vacuum tubes, if you can get a 3d printed motor winder and 3d printed vaccume tube assembler.
At a low technology level there is solar paint. That may be a more viable system for Steam Punk Mars.https://understandsolar.com/solar-paint
Quote from: A_M_Swallow on 06/21/2018 02:23 amAt a low technology level there is solar paint. That may be a more viable system for Steam Punk Mars.https://understandsolar.com/solar-paintThat is not - remotely - low technology level. The application method may be something you are sort-of-familiar with, but the 'paint' is very, very high tech."10% isn’t nearly as efficient as silicon panels, but because solar paint is much cheaper to produce even at this lower efficiency level it’s still cost-effective." Note, as an example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanosolar - who went under after claiming cheaper to produce printed solar cells. (they never ended up being cheaper).Claims of 'cheaper to produce' should be met with massive, massive scepticism if after several years they have not started producing them.
Quote from: A_M_Swallow on 06/21/2018 02:23 amAt a low technology level there is solar paint. That may be a more viable system for Steam Punk Mars.https://understandsolar.com/solar-paintThat is not - remotely - low technology level. The application method may be something you are sort-of-familiar with, but the 'paint' is very, very high tech.
"10% isn’t nearly as efficient as silicon panels, but because solar paint is much cheaper to produce even at this lower efficiency level it’s still cost-effective." Claims of 'cheaper to produce' should be met with massive, massive scepticism if after several years they have not started producing them.
But the question here is not which is cheaper but which is easier for a Mars colony to produce!
Have any studies found what is necessary for a Mars base to be self sufficient , with no contact with Earth ?If a Mars base is to be an arc, giving humanity and Earth life (maybe the only life in the universe) a second chance , we need to plan this from the early stages of its development.I wonder what would be the minimum base to give the inhabitants a fighting chance to survive and prosper in to the future.