Author Topic: Why do so many believe Apollo was faked?  (Read 46436 times)

Offline cpcjr

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Re: Why do so many believe Apollo was faked?
« Reply #80 on: 04/26/2008 12:53 am »
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Analyst - 25/4/2008  5:03 AM

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janmb - 25/4/2008  10:57 AM

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William Barton - 16/4/2008  6:17 PM
I'll say what I always say in these matters: We live in a world where the majority of human beings believe the universe was built and is operated by one or more supernatural beings.

Fortunately, I doubt this is really the case.

A majority may be registered as religious, but a lot less actually believe.

We shouldn't start talking about religion. Always gets muddy pretty fast.

Analyst


How true Analyst.

When the original post was made, I thought of commenting but decided not to. Not only because things can get muddy quite fast but also this not the place for it. The subject of the entire forum is space flight, not religion and not the nature and origin of the universe.

By the way, why do atheists see a need to insult theists even when the topic has nothing to do with religion?  I’ve seen this in other places and it’s rather common.


Offline Klaatu

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Re: Why do so many believe Apollo was faked?
« Reply #81 on: 05/19/2008 01:37 pm »
It's gets really tiring trying to explain to "None believers"...I always say that if it was faked, then the images would surely look like the best special effects (Movies like 2001 etc.,) of the period.   They do not!....
I feel sorry for these people anyway, They're missing out on the "Awe" factor when looking at the amazing things the Apollo program achieved.
"Such Power Exists?"

Offline Gene DiGennaro

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Re: Why do so many believe Apollo was faked?
« Reply #82 on: 05/19/2008 07:23 pm »
Klaatu, That's a good answer. I've often thought that "faked" moon landing motion picture footage could only look as good as the best of Hollywood's special effects circa 1969. "2001" represented the the epitome of the era's special effects and while convincing, they do not capture the subtle things like dust clouds in a vacuum.

Karl, good answer too!

Offline Gene DiGennaro

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Re: Why do so many believe Apollo was faked?
« Reply #83 on: 05/19/2008 07:23 pm »
Oh by the way, welcome to NSF Klaatu!

Offline Klaatu

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Re: Why do so many believe Apollo was faked?
« Reply #84 on: 05/20/2008 09:19 am »
Many thanks Gene...I've been a huge fan of Space Exploration (Especially the Apollo era) for as far back as I can remember...I'm really glad I found this site.
"Such Power Exists?"

Offline Hoonte

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Re: Why do so many believe Apollo was faked?
« Reply #85 on: 05/20/2008 12:46 pm »
I really don't see why to convince the hoax believers. I think the average hoax believer will not change their minds what ever I say. And does it really matter.. I know wat is true, trying to convince somebody doesn't make it any more true. So if somebody believes it is fake. fine.. If he wants to 'spread the word', fine..
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Offline hop

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Re: Why do so many believe Apollo was faked?
« Reply #86 on: 05/20/2008 08:30 pm »
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Hoonte - 20/5/2008  5:46 AM

I really don't see why to convince the hoax believers. I think the average hoax believer will not change their minds what ever I say. And does it really matter.. I know wat is true, trying to convince somebody doesn't make it any more true. So if somebody believes it is fake. fine.. If he wants to 'spread the word', fine..
There's no point in trying to sway the hardcore kooks. However, I don't think the average hoax believer is a hardcore kook. Most of them are just people who saw a "documentary" or website, were predisposed to accept it by their personal beliefs, and didn't bother looking at other sources of evidence.

The moon hoax itself may be relatively harmless, but there is very good reason to promote critical thinking in general. If you are swayed by the conspiracy thinking and tricks of the "moon hoax" it's only a small step to holocaust denial, "9/11 truth" etc, and some of those things are extremely dangerous.

If no one stands up for rationalism and critical thinking, these things get accepted into popular mythology and do much more damage than a few hardcore nutcases would.

Offline kschachn

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Re: Why do so many believe Apollo was faked?
« Reply #87 on: 05/21/2008 04:53 pm »
Another aspect is the massive amount of distrust and suspicion it requires to believe it was a hoax. All of which is completely unwarranted by this, or most governments. If you truly believe it was faked then you might as well be suspicious of nearly everything else the government tells you. For all its failings, and as much as people like to grouse about the US government “lying” about this or that, there’s very little evidence to support such comments.

How these people function in life with such paranoia is beyond me. If I thought that such lies were “out there” I doubt I could make it through the day.

Offline cabbage

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Re: Why do so many believe Apollo was faked?
« Reply #88 on: 05/21/2008 05:09 pm »
I think people are remarkably good at living with inconsistencies (and this can be a real asset, not just a liability) so I think you can believe that the government are telling you the truth when that is convenient for you, and believe they are lieing when it makes you feel better to know the "secret truth".

Offline kneecaps

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Re: Why do so many believe Apollo was faked?
« Reply #89 on: 05/21/2008 07:39 pm »
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Jorge - 18/4/2008  1:09 AM
Granted, Apollo's computers were *really* memory-limited. The AGC had 36K 15-bit words of fixed memory, 2K of erasable memory while the AEA had 2K 18-bit words of fixed memory, 2K erasable. But the software was written *really* tightly, mostly in assembly language, and MIT and TRW threw a *lot* of clever people at it. You can really accomplish a lot with a little memory if you make every bit count.

The flight software was in my opinion almost a work of art. The depth and breath of function that was implemented in the programs is fantastic. The 'Art' of programming has been lost in today's age of inexpensive storage.

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Being experienced pilots didn't help the Apollo crews with the computers - they needed a lot of training to operate the primitive user interfaces of the AGC and AEA. (The AEA in particular - the user interface was a keypad with two numerical LED displays to allow the crew to "peek" and "poke" memory locations directly.)

Even so, the AGC and AEA were some of the earliest examples (maybe the first?) of machines where you could initiate jobs without the need for punch cards and other such things.

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And as you say, MCC played a big role. Due to those same memory limitations, the AGC had no capability for targeting translunar midcourse burns, the LOI burn, or the TEI burn - those were all computed on the ground.

Even with MCC assistance, the AGC was still 'prime' for terminal phase rendezvous operations!

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So like you, I really can't see how they can claim it couldn't have been done - especially when the software design documents and the actual source code are all out there on the web so people can see how it *was* done.

I've been studying the flight software for nearly 4 years and it still impresses me :) Problem is the 'moon hoaxers' wouldn't understand it!

Pete

Allow subject to scream. In space no one will hear.

Offline veedriver22

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Re: Why do so many believe Apollo was faked?
« Reply #90 on: 05/21/2008 08:03 pm »
I have crossed paths with some 9/11 truthers.   Its amazing how they become experts in something they have no experience with.   In one case they indicated how strong the towers were and that the plane crash was just a pinprick.   I am not sure what videos he looked at, but what I saw was the buildings got slammed. By an aircraft that was going very fast,  and with wingtips nearly as wide as the building itself.   It slammed so hard that fire came billowing out the other side of the building.  

 There are also claims that the fact that there is molten steel in the pit somehow proves that controlled demolitions were used.  Holy cow,   this was an event that has never happened before. Who’s to say what should or should not have happened.   A building this size has never come down like this before.

 The controlled demolition theory really gets me going.
That has so many holes in it that you would think it would be beyond anyones belief.
I guess you get a big clue when the alternate theories being proposed are much more outlandish that the “Government Official Story” than they are questioning.

Offline RedRover

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RE: Why do so many believe Apollo was faked?
« Reply #91 on: 05/21/2008 08:53 pm »
Apollo 13 failed because it was attacked by aliens who didn't like the fact that this mission was carrying and atom bomb to the moon... :)

Offline gospacex

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Re: Why do so many believe Apollo was faked?
« Reply #92 on: 05/21/2008 10:00 pm »
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kneecaps - 21/5/2008  2:39 PM
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Jorge - 18/4/2008  1:09 AM
Granted, Apollo's computers were *really* memory-limited. The AGC had 36K 15-bit words of fixed memory, 2K of erasable memory while the AEA had 2K 18-bit words of fixed memory, 2K erasable. But the software was written *really* tightly, mostly in assembly language, and MIT and TRW threw a *lot* of clever people at it. You can really accomplish a lot with a little memory if you make every bit count.

The flight software was in my opinion almost a work of art. The depth and breath of function that was implemented in the programs is fantastic. The 'Art' of programming has been lost in today's age of inexpensive storage.

Not entirely. http://busybox.net/ - they still cram programs into 1-2 kbytes instead of 1-2..20..200.. Mbytes. :)

Offline ckiki lwai

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Re: Why do so many believe Apollo was faked?
« Reply #93 on: 05/21/2008 10:42 pm »
If I meet people in real life who believe it's a hoax, I just tell them that the hardest/most costly part of the journey was building such a big rocket, and since a lot of people have seen it lift off with their own eyes, it can't be a hoax.

As to the question why so many people believe it's a hoax, I think it's difficult for a lot of people to grasp the fact that you can actually build a machine, put some humans in it, send them to another world and bring them back.
Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events. - Robert Heinlein

Offline Spacenick

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Re: Why do so many believe Apollo was faked?
« Reply #94 on: 05/21/2008 11:02 pm »
For every fact, that is hard to grasp there are people who will call it a hoax. Be it something too cruel to grasp like the Holocaust or 9/11  or something too complexx to understand for many people like evolution or Apollo.
This will probably never change as it seems to be part of human nature, it's an extreme and misguided form of doubt, one of the human features that was so important in building the foundation of modern society. It's a pity those people calling things like Apollo a hoax don't doubt their own fellow while doubting all the rest.

Offline Danny Dot

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RE: Why do so many believe Apollo was faked?
« Reply #95 on: 05/24/2008 02:49 pm »
I have never heard anyone say how NASA could have faked the video coming back from the moon.  I do think it is possible NASA took and released a couple of still photos in a studio -- with the claim they came from the moon.

My summary is this.  It would have been more difficult to fake the landings that it was to actually make the landings.

Danny Deger

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RE: Why do so many believe Apollo was faked?
« Reply #96 on: 05/24/2008 03:18 pm »
"NASA took and released a couple of still photos in a studio -- with the claim they came from the moon."

Which still photos specifically?  That's quite a claim.

Offline Launch Fan

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Re: Why do so many believe Apollo was faked?
« Reply #97 on: 05/29/2008 07:15 pm »


My summary is this.  It would have been more difficult to fake the landings that it was to actually make the landings.



I think this is the most important point that is missed by the hoaxers.

Offline Nate Black

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Re: Why do so many believe Apollo was faked?
« Reply #98 on: 07/08/2008 05:09 pm »
I think that not seeing the first images of Neil and Buzz jumping around on the moon might be a part of the answer, at least for us young ones. Ask a kid on the street - "Have you seen the moon-landing on TV?", most of them will probably say no. And thus, not growing up around those kind of things might scare them, and they don't really want to trust what they see, they think of how easy it is to fake footage today, with the internet and all. Looking at the videos, it does look like something a teenager might be able to fake with his home computer.

Well, at least that's what I think. And being 19, I think I can answer for most of us young ones.

Offline Gravity Ray

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Re: Why do so many believe Apollo was faked?
« Reply #99 on: 07/08/2008 08:57 pm »
A person is smart... People are stupid.

A group of people tend to make their own reality, which may or may not have anything to do with THE reality.

Additionally our government lies to us so often that sometimes it is truly is hard to judge if you are being lied to in this instance or not?!? Unfortunately our own government has done so many horrible things that I am not surprised that people thing they also lied about the moon landings.

Finally I think these people actually enjoy that they frustrate smarter people by saying something stupid. The classic example of this is that dude that got punched by Buzz in that video at beginning of this thread. By the way he is lucky he didn’t call me a liar and a coward or it would not have been just a punch, but a proper ass kicking.

So ignore ignorance and you will be the happier for it.

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