I am sure I will be shouted down but I am going to put out that it stands a reasonable chance that SpaceX could build ITS at Michoud. Especially if we see a deal between SpaceX and NASA (US Gov) for cooperation on the ITS...
Quote from: Brovane on 06/01/2017 07:01 pmIf you read the quote carefully, the decision to have the number of people present was a TRW decision as part of a government contract. It wasn't a requirement by Stennis. Already SpaceX has used Stennis for Raptor testing. https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2016/10/its-propulsion-evolution-raptor-engine/ So you think SpaceX will go through the cost of building from scratch a test facility to support full duration burns of a ITS 1st stage when a government facility already exists that can support this testing? There is nothing at Stennis that can currently support full duration burns of an ITS 1st stage. It will require some serious modifications to existing test stands. SpaceX might just as well decide to build a new one. Probably not at Stennis.
If you read the quote carefully, the decision to have the number of people present was a TRW decision as part of a government contract. It wasn't a requirement by Stennis. Already SpaceX has used Stennis for Raptor testing. https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2016/10/its-propulsion-evolution-raptor-engine/ So you think SpaceX will go through the cost of building from scratch a test facility to support full duration burns of a ITS 1st stage when a government facility already exists that can support this testing?
I'm not very fluent on aircraft carrier knowledge, why are there carriers down by Brownsville?
Quote from: IanThePineapple on 06/02/2017 12:26 amI'm not very fluent on aircraft carrier knowledge, why are there carriers down by Brownsville?This should answer your question... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forrestal-class_aircraft_carrier
Wow, I'd just like to walk through that old carrier and see what it's like. Probably empty, dark and overall creepy, but still would be interesting.Also, how would one obtain a piece of this carrier on eBay...
Oh, we've gone so far from topic. But I'd say it's fine given the really slow updates
I am sure I will be shouted down but I am going to put out that it stands a reasonable chance that SpaceX could build ITS at Michoud.
Quote from: Brovane on 06/01/2017 12:58 pmI am sure I will be shouted down but I am going to put out that it stands a reasonable chance that SpaceX could build ITS at Michoud.With overhead cranes removed, the ceiling allows a maximum tank construction diameter of 10.0m as was the case with Saturn V. With the cranes in place, the maximum is 8.8m, as was the case with STS tanks and SLS. You would have to tear off the entire roof, raise the walls, build a new roof, install new cranes. Possible? Sure. Likely? Highly doubtful.
I think the EIS for Boca Chica said the buildings could be up to 68 feet tall.
2.1.2.1 Vertical Launch AreaProposed facility and infrastructure construction at the vertical launch area would include the following:• Integration and Processing Hangar (Hangar)• Launch pad and stand with its associated flame duct• Water tower• Lightning protection towers (four total)• Retention basin for deluge water• Propellant storage and handling areas• Workshop and office area• Warehouse for parts storage• Roads, parking areas, fencing, security, lighting, and utilitiesIntegration and Processing HangarThe Hangar at the vertical launch area would be used for the preparation of the launch vehicle for launch and the final fueling and integration of the payload onto the vehicle. It would require approximately 43,200 square feet (ft2 ) of space (360 x 120 x 65 ft high) and would be constructed of prefabricated steel framework with steel or aluminum sheet walls. To support the Hangar, approximately 30 concrete pilings, 3 ft in diameter, would be installed with an impact pile driver. The Hangar would be air conditioned, and the fueling facilities would have a scrubber system (up to two active scrubbers) to minimize emissions to the environment in the event of a payload fuel spill inside the facility. The scrubbers consist of “scrubbing towers,” storage tank with liquid level indicator, service panel, circulation pump, and a liquid separator with liquid level indicator. The system would be mounted on a “low boy” trailer for easy transport. Spill containment for the scrubber system would depend on the materials used in these systems, and then if required would be sized for 110 percent of the maximum credible spill as required by law. Containment would be constructed of a non-porous material, such as concrete or a non-reactive plastic. The concrete would be lined with a leak-proof barrier that is compatible with the materials handled. The scrubber systems are monitored by testing the residual fluid contained in the scrubber.Launch PadThe concrete road from the Hangar to the launch pad would be approximately 75,110 ft2 . The launch pad and stand are used to translate the launch vehicle to a vertical position and to support it on the pad prior to launch. It consists of a concrete and steel structure with a flame duct, a launch mount, and upper deck. To support the launch pad and stand, approximately 20 concrete pilings, 3 ft in diameter, would be installed with an impact pile driver. The height of the entire launch pad would be approximately 50 ft and would require approximately 17,900 ft2 of space. The flame duct would extend east/southeast from the launch pad to direct the heat and combustion products and the initial sound blast toward the Gulf of Mexico. The pad would also include two concrete and steel wings to protect equipment that is required to be very close to the pad. All pad lighting would consist of high pressure sodium (HPS), halogen, or LED (light-emitting diode) light fixtures. However, for safety reasons SpaceX may occasionally require bright spotlighting for short durations (1-2 days maximum) when illuminating the launch vehicle for the proposed one night launch event per year. These spot lights are typically metal halide. The number of pole lights would be finalized during the site design process. SpaceX will coordinate with USFWS and NPS on the preparation of a detailed Lighting Management Plan (refer to Chapter 6 for further information on Mitigation and Special Conservation Measures). The Falcon vehicle system transporter erector would serve as the service tower for vehicle umbilical support while the launch vehicle is vertical. Additionally, four lightning protection towers, approximately 230 ft in height, would be constructed adjacent to the launch pad. Deluge Water SystemOne water tower would be installed at the vertical launch area for sound and vibration suppression. The water tower would contain at least 250,000 gal and would be approximately 250 ft high, which is required to provide sufficient pressure to the pad systems. During an actual launch, the water tower would discharge up to 100,000 gal of water for a Falcon 9 launch operation and up to 200,000 gal for a Falcon Heavy launch operation. During a launch, approximately half of the water would be vaporized. All water not vaporized would be contained in a retention basin underneath the pad. This water would then be sampled and analyzed to determine if the water contained controlled contaminants at levels that exceed the TCEQ water quality standards. Appropriate sampling protocols and water quality criteria would be developed in coordination with TCEQ and in accordance with Texas Surface Water Quality Standards Texas Administrative Code, Title 30 Environmental Quality, Part 1 - Texas Commission On Environmental Quality, Chapter 307: Texas Surface Water Quality. Water containing contaminants that exceed the water quality criteria would be removed and hauled to an approved industrial wastewater treatment facility outside of the vertical launch area. All other water not containing prohibited chemicals would be pumped back to the water tower. All water (including deluge and potable water) would be either delivered by truck or withdrawn from a well located adjacent to the water tower, and drilled into a highly transmissive (i.e., yielding relatively large water quantities) portion of the Gulf Coast Aquifer.2.1.2.2 Control Center AreaProposed facility and infrastructure construction at the control center area would include the following:• Two launch control center buildings• Two payload processing facilities• Launch vehicle processing hangar• Two RF transmitter/receivers• Generators and diesel storage facilities• Roads, parking areas, fencing, security, lighting, and utilities• A satellite fuels and gas storage facilityLaunch Control Center BuildingsThe one-story control center buildings would be approximately 14,186 ft2 and 30-45 ft in height, and would be used for command and control of the launch vehicle, payload, and ground systems during launch and test operations. Each control center building would consist primarily of several large rooms for control consoles, conference rooms, and support rooms. In addition, each facility would house office areas for site personnel. Payload Processing FacilitiesThe payload processing facilities would be used to conduct final processing of payloads prior to integrating them with the launch vehicle. This processing would include final spacecraft checkouts, RF checks, payload fueling, and other activities as required. The facilities would be designed to support the processing of two payloads simultaneously, to allow for a better throughput. Each building would be approximately 14,669 ft2 and 65-85 ft in height Launch Vehicle Processing HangarThe proposed 30,774 ft2 , 50-65 ft tall launch vehicle processing hangar would be used to conduct refurbishment of flown stages, or for pre-integration preparation of the launch vehicle stages before they go to the pad hangar for final integration. Use of this facility would improve the overall vertical launch area throughput by minimizing the vehicle’s activities associated with the launch vehicle in the vertical launch area Hangar. This facility would be similar to the Hangar at the vertical launch area, but shorter.
Quote from: rsdavis9 on 06/01/2017 03:34 pmOr make the composite structures whereever (even hawthorne) and transport by helicopter or plane to the seaside assembly plant. The individual tanks shouldn't weigh too much? I am assuming that there is individual tanks?Why? They used Janicki Industries of Sedro-Woolley, WA to build the giant test tank, a company with large aerospace credentials and they'll set up a shop at your facility. ISTM SpaceX could put up a big hangar-like shop most anywhere including the Brownsville shipping channel, a Space Florida site....where ever, close to a launch site. Extra points if it has waterway access, which is dirt cheap transportation using no expensive air assets.
Or make the composite structures whereever (even hawthorne) and transport by helicopter or plane to the seaside assembly plant. The individual tanks shouldn't weigh too much? I am assuming that there is individual tanks?
Quote from: TomH on 06/02/2017 02:28 amQuote from: Brovane on 06/01/2017 12:58 pmI am sure I will be shouted down but I am going to put out that it stands a reasonable chance that SpaceX could build ITS at Michoud.With overhead cranes removed, the ceiling allows a maximum tank construction diameter of 10.0m as was the case with Saturn V. With the cranes in place, the maximum is 8.8m, as was the case with STS tanks and SLS. You would have to tear off the entire roof, raise the walls, build a new roof, install new cranes. Possible? Sure. Likely? Highly doubtful.It would be really tough to transport entire ITS stages by barge, I wouldn't be surprised if they did the New Glenn approach and built right at the site, or even sent it in pieces from Hawethorne to be assembled at the launch site.
Quote from: Nomadd on 06/02/2017 04:22 am I think the EIS for Boca Chica said the buildings could be up to 68 feet tall.Relevant sections of EIS below, with heights highlighted. Max building height is 85 ft. Max structure height is 250 ft.[...edited for brevity]