Starship all weather launch capability

[Jim]

They have, what, 50 tons of heat sink surrounding how many tons of cryogenic liquid?  You don't need fans.

Doesn't work that way.  Structure either gets too hot or too cold and propellants go away.  Avionics are typically isolated from the structure.  Do you think idiots have building launch vehicles for the last 1/2 century?
Reuse adds more cases to deal with (not just prelaunch and launch, but coast, orbit, entry, and post landing). 

[Dave G]

Starship/Super Heavy: cryogen tanks not insulated

Starship tanks will be partially insulated (as shown) before installing the heatshield tiles.

[steveleach]

So as I wasn't really getting the answers I wanted here, I've been looking into discussions on other forums.

As was pointed out here, the Russians have to cope with more severe weather at their launch sites so they seem to just design for it.

Apollo 12 launched in the rain; it didn't use subcooled methane, obviously, but it did use LOX.

Impact of raindrops on the vehicle at supersonic speeds was mentioned, particularly with respect to more delicate elements such as heat shield tiles. Presumably a reusable vehicle has to be designed to be a bit more robust anyway, so maybe this is less of an issue.

Visibility to allow the range safety officer to activate FTS was one weather factor mentioned, and presumably that doesn't apply to SpaceX vehicles that use autonomous FTS.

Lightning strikes are best avoided, but can be handled. Rockets have survived lightning strikes during launch, and aircraft do it regularly. I couldn't find any comparison of the risks to electronics from lightning compared to cosmic rays.

Wind shear is going to be a problem for control, but then again we're talking about SpaceX vehicles that have enough control authority to do things like landing flips and pinpoint booster landings.

But from what I can tell, it's mainly just a matter of avoiding weather scenarios you haven't tested. For historic vehicles this is a lot of area to cover, but for Starship it could rapidly narrow down to the more extreme conditions.

[Jim]

1.  As was pointed out here, the Russians have to cope with more severe weather at their launch sites so they seem to just design for it.

2.  Apollo 12 launched in the rain; it didn't use subcooled methane, obviously, but it did use LOX.

3.  Impact of raindrops on the vehicle at supersonic speeds was mentioned, particularly with respect to more delicate elements such as heat shield tiles. Presumably a reusable vehicle has to be designed to be a bit more robust anyway, so maybe this is less of an issue.

4.  Lightning strikes are best avoided, but can be handled. Rockets have survived lightning strikes during launch, and aircraft do it regularly. I couldn't find any comparison of the risks to electronics from lightning compared to cosmic rays.

5.  Wind shear is going to be a problem for control, but then again we're talking about SpaceX vehicles that have enough control authority to do things like landing flips and pinpoint booster landings.

1.  And they have different storage methods for their avionics.

2. Extra ice isn't good in any case

3.  Maybe is not going to cut it. 

4.  Most haven't, especially cloud to ground.  And it is not just the rocket but the payload too.  EMP from lightning is much worse than cosmic rays.

5.  Unrelated.  The flip is outside the atmosphere.  Booster landing is not a mated vehicle or one with a lot of propellant.

[rakaydos]

5.  Unrelated.  The flip is outside the atmosphere.  Booster landing is not a mated vehicle or one with a lot of propellant.

Wrong flip. Unless you're saying Starbase is a low pressure work enviroment...

[Jim]

5.  Unrelated.  The flip is outside the atmosphere.  Booster landing is not a mated vehicle or one with a lot of propellant.

Wrong flip

 Unless you're saying Starbase is a low pressure work enviroment...

Doesn't matter, it is happens at too low of attitude to be concerned with winds aloft.

[_MECO]

I bet there's gonna be some food for thought in this thread now...

[steveleach]

I bet there's gonna be some food for thought in this thread now...

You mean because we didn't all get to watch due to the fog, or is there a suggestion that the weather contributed to the SN11 failure?

[Hog]

I bet there's gonna be some food for thought in this thread now...

You mean because we didn't all get to watch due to the fog, or is there a suggestion that the weather contributed to the SN11 failure?

I've already read comments comparing Space Xs "decision to launch in zero visibility reminds me of NASA launching Challenger when it was too cold."

I so want to open my veins! (j/k)

[rakaydos]

I bet there's gonna be some food for thought in this thread now...

You mean because we didn't all get to watch due to the fog, or is there a suggestion that the weather contributed to the SN11 failure?

I've already read comments comparing Space Xs "decision to launch in zero visibility reminds me of NASA launching Challenger when it was too cold."

I so want to open my veins! (j/k)

"I wasnt IN the cherry tree."
https://www.reddit.com/r/Jokes/comments/gae067/george_washingtons_cherry_tree/

Manned flights have different considerations.

[_MECO]

I bet there's gonna be some food for thought in this thread now...

You mean because we didn't all get to watch due to the fog, or is there a suggestion that the weather contributed to the SN11 failure?

It's the worst we've ever seen video cut out on a Stsrship test. Can fog really not screw with GHz range radio links?

[steveleach]

I bet there's gonna be some food for thought in this thread now...

You mean because we didn't all get to watch due to the fog, or is there a suggestion that the weather contributed to the SN11 failure?

It's the worst we've ever seen video cut out on a Stsrship test. Can fog really not screw with GHz range radio links?

Maybe it does, but then again, maybe that was part of the decision.

"Let's wait for the fog to clear" say the team.
"Actually no, let's launch now, we might learn something interesting" says Elon.
"Well, as you've got autonomous FTS anyway... why the hell not?" says the FAA guy.

Food for thought indeed :-)

[sferrin]

I bet there's gonna be some food for thought in this thread now...

You mean because we didn't all get to watch due to the fog, or is there a suggestion that the weather contributed to the SN11 failure?

It's the worst we've ever seen video cut out on a Stsrship test. Can fog really not screw with GHz range radio links?

I think this killed a few brain cells.