Author Topic: Ganymede Lander  (Read 13526 times)

Offline Blackstar

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Ganymede Lander
« on: 08/29/2013 03:52 pm »
Earlier this year the Space Research Institute in Moscow hosted a workshop on a Ganymede lander:

http://glcw2013.cosmos.ru/

They previously hosted a workshop on a Europa lander. This does not indicate that Russia has a program to conduct such a mission, and I don't think they are actually capable of doing it considering that they have never done any deep space missions, and their planetary program is a shambles. Nevertheless, it is an interesting topic. I am going to post most of the presentations here.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Ganymede Lander
« Reply #1 on: 08/29/2013 03:55 pm »
The presentations are here:

http://glcw2013.cosmos.ru/presentations


Offline Blackstar

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Re: Ganymede Lander
« Reply #2 on: 08/29/2013 03:56 pm »
Animations in a zip file.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Ganymede Lander
« Reply #3 on: 08/29/2013 04:01 pm »
Note that I ONLY posted the pdf presentations. But there were a lot of presentations that are PowerPoint slides that I cannot post here, including many of the really interesting ones about Russian mission concepts. You will have to download those yourself (and if you want to convert them to pdfs and post them here, then that would be great).

Here is the mission overview presentation.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Ganymede Lander
« Reply #4 on: 08/29/2013 04:43 pm »
Awesome, thanks!
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

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Offline Borklund

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Re: Ganymede Lander
« Reply #5 on: 08/29/2013 04:55 pm »
Fantastic, thank you!

Offline Star One

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Re: Ganymede Lander
« Reply #6 on: 08/30/2013 03:11 pm »
I posted an article a while back that talked about getting this onto JUICE.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Ganymede Lander
« Reply #7 on: 09/03/2013 06:49 pm »
Okay, I went and converted most of the ppt files to pdf. This is almost all of them, including some that were posted previously. I'm posting them in a few batches.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Ganymede Lander
« Reply #8 on: 09/03/2013 06:51 pm »
Second batch.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Ganymede Lander
« Reply #9 on: 09/03/2013 06:52 pm »
Third batch.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Ganymede Lander
« Reply #10 on: 09/03/2013 06:53 pm »
Fourth batch.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Ganymede Lander
« Reply #11 on: 09/03/2013 06:54 pm »
Fifth batch.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Ganymede Lander
« Reply #12 on: 09/03/2013 06:56 pm »
Sixth batch.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Ganymede Lander
« Reply #13 on: 09/03/2013 06:57 pm »
Last one. I'll remove the earlier posts in order to consolidate them.

Offline baldusi

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Re: Ganymede Lander
« Reply #14 on: 09/03/2013 06:58 pm »
Thank you Blackstar! Greatly appreciated.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Ganymede Lander
« Reply #15 on: 08/01/2016 07:10 pm »


New update. Hat tip to redliox.

We need a translation of what they are saying.

Offline redliox

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Re: Ganymede Lander
« Reply #16 on: 08/01/2016 07:16 pm »
New update. Hat tip to redliox.

We need a translation of what they are saying.

Much appreciated.  :)  Wish I knew Russian offhand.  Guessing from the video, they probably selected Ganymede to complement ESA's JUICE and to avoid the radiation hazards deeper in the system.  I found the video posted at spaceref but they didn't elaborate much on it except saying Russia plans missions for Ganymede and Mercury.
"Let the trails lead where they may, I will follow."
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Offline Blackstar

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Re: Ganymede Lander
« Reply #17 on: 08/01/2016 07:20 pm »
Guessing from the video, they probably selected Ganymede to complement ESA's JUICE and to avoid the radiation hazards deeper in the system. 

The Russians seem to make their selections based upon three factors:

1-What the Americans are not doing;
2-A significant accomplishment in its own right (in other words, a "first" and not simply repeating what another country has already done);
3-Availability of foreign money/partnership.

All of those things seem to be in equal play these days.

I actually think that the Russians should instead focus on rebuilding their planetary science program from first principles--meaning starting with a few small, less ambitious missions, like lunar orbiters, in order to gain experience, before moving on to bigger and bolder missions. The problem is that they have a lot of pride, so they won't do that. The result is a mission like Phobos-Grunt, that was hugely ambitious and never even made it out of Earth orbit.

Offline Star One

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Re: Ganymede Lander
« Reply #18 on: 08/01/2016 10:03 pm »
Guessing from the video, they probably selected Ganymede to complement ESA's JUICE and to avoid the radiation hazards deeper in the system. 

The Russians seem to make their selections based upon three factors:

1-What the Americans are not doing;
2-A significant accomplishment in its own right (in other words, a "first" and not simply repeating what another country has already done);
3-Availability of foreign money/partnership.

All of those things seem to be in equal play these days.

I actually think that the Russians should instead focus on rebuilding their planetary science program from first principles--meaning starting with a few small, less ambitious missions, like lunar orbiters, in order to gain experience, before moving on to bigger and bolder missions. The problem is that they have a lot of pride, so they won't do that. The result is a mission like Phobos-Grunt, that was hugely ambitious and never even made it out of Earth orbit.
But surely they are planning Lunar missions, some with ESA yes but it still fulfills you remit of back to basics.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Ganymede Lander
« Reply #19 on: 08/01/2016 10:28 pm »
Guessing from the video, they probably selected Ganymede to complement ESA's JUICE and to avoid the radiation hazards deeper in the system. 

The Russians seem to make their selections based upon three factors:

1-What the Americans are not doing;
2-A significant accomplishment in its own right (in other words, a "first" and not simply repeating what another country has already done);
3-Availability of foreign money/partnership.

All of those things seem to be in equal play these days.

I actually think that the Russians should instead focus on rebuilding their planetary science program from first principles--meaning starting with a few small, less ambitious missions, like lunar orbiters, in order to gain experience, before moving on to bigger and bolder missions. The problem is that they have a lot of pride, so they won't do that. The result is a mission like Phobos-Grunt, that was hugely ambitious and never even made it out of Earth orbit.
But surely they are planning Lunar missions, some with ESA yes but it still fulfills you remit of back to basics.

Look at what they are planning--landers with extensive science packages landing in previously unexplored areas. They're trying for firsts. I think they should start smaller, with some modest-sized orbiters, to build up their skills and train their workforce.

Offline Star One

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Re: Ganymede Lander
« Reply #20 on: 08/02/2016 06:25 am »
Guessing from the video, they probably selected Ganymede to complement ESA's JUICE and to avoid the radiation hazards deeper in the system. 

The Russians seem to make their selections based upon three factors:

1-What the Americans are not doing;
2-A significant accomplishment in its own right (in other words, a "first" and not simply repeating what another country has already done);
3-Availability of foreign money/partnership.

All of those things seem to be in equal play these days.

I actually think that the Russians should instead focus on rebuilding their planetary science program from first principles--meaning starting with a few small, less ambitious missions, like lunar orbiters, in order to gain experience, before moving on to bigger and bolder missions. The problem is that they have a lot of pride, so they won't do that. The result is a mission like Phobos-Grunt, that was hugely ambitious and never even made it out of Earth orbit.
But surely they are planning Lunar missions, some with ESA yes but it still fulfills you remit of back to basics.

Look at what they are planning--landers with extensive science packages landing in previously unexplored areas. They're trying for firsts. I think they should start smaller, with some modest-sized orbiters, to build up their skills and train their workforce.

I see your point now but unfortunately doubt that such modest proposals would gain the support of the politicians. I suspect the missions chosen have to be as they are to gain the necessary political and financial support to even have a chance of becoming reality.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Ganymede Lander
« Reply #21 on: 08/02/2016 02:36 pm »
I see your point now but unfortunately doubt that such modest proposals would gain the support of the politicians. I suspect the missions chosen have to be as they are to gain the necessary political and financial support to even have a chance of becoming reality.

Do we really know what political support means in Russia?

But I'm not saying that this _will_ happen, just that it's a better way to do it. They may have also missed an opportunity after Phobos-Grunt. After that debacle, they had an opportunity to do an internal assessment and then propose a solution. They could have said "We need to rebuild our skill levels and our workforce, and here are five steps we should take to do that." Instead, they simply looked at other ambitious missions.

And I would add that even now they're not really gaining necessary support for their big missions. They're proposing things like Venera-D, multiple big lunar missions, the Ganymede lander, and they're NOT getting support for them. Not unless foreign money comes with them.




Offline Eric Hedman

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Re: Ganymede Lander
« Reply #22 on: 08/04/2016 03:49 am »

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