....A Europa mission will be able to chose from a variety of rockets, and any (especially new) rocket won't initially be trusted with a payload like a flagship right away.
Quote from: redliox on 02/08/2018 12:30 pm....A Europa mission will be able to chose from a variety of rockets, and any (especially new) rocket won't initially be trusted with a payload like a flagship right away.So sending the Europa Clipper with the first SLS Block 1B is a good idea?
Quote from: Zed_Noir on 02/08/2018 09:12 pmQuote from: redliox on 02/08/2018 12:30 pm....A Europa mission will be able to chose from a variety of rockets, and any (especially new) rocket won't initially be trusted with a payload like a flagship right away.So sending the Europa Clipper with the first SLS Block 1B is a good idea? Don't be a SpaceX troll Also, if you invoke the name of either FH or SLS too much the 'Clipper might be jinxed to fly on Atlas V so watch yourself!Seriously though guys, YES, Falcon Heavy could be an option. Even a good option. However don't turn this into a SpaceX fandom. Besides, wait for the Outer Planet Assessment Group meeting due this month; perhaps in light of the launch the 'Clipper team might give a public update on their options. Let them speak about the matter themselves.
Only pointing out the obvious fallacy in your argument in your previous post.
This budget enables a Europa Clipper launch readiness date in 2025. The Administration proposes to launch the Clipper on a commercial launch vehicle, which would be several hundreds of millions ofdollars cheaper than an SLS flight and would not impact the availability of SLS rockets to support humanexploration. The Administration recognizes the benefits of using an SLS vehicle, including a shortercruise to Europa and a more direct trajectory (enabling a simpler thermal design and earlier science returnto inform future outer planet missions), but makes this proposal primarily due to budget considerations.
Consistent with Public Law 115-31, NASA is currently maintaining the capability to launch the Clipper on an SLS rocket.
The profile assumes $432 million for a commercial launch vehicle, which may be reduced as commercialofferings and pricing continue to evolve. It is not possible to launch the Clipper on an SLS earlier than2024 without disrupting current NASA human exploration plans.
If the Congress were to support the Administration’s position, NASA could move forward this year with securing a commercial launch vehicle.
In the FY 2019 PBR details released sometime in the last 12 hours or so:QuoteThis budget enables a Europa Clipper launch readiness date in 2025. The Administration proposes to launch the Clipper on a commercial launch vehicle, which would be several hundreds of millions ofdollars cheaper than an SLS flight and would not impact the availability of SLS rockets to support humanexploration. The Administration recognizes the benefits of using an SLS vehicle, including a shortercruise to Europa and a more direct trajectory (enabling a simpler thermal design and earlier science returnto inform future outer planet missions), but makes this proposal primarily due to budget considerations.Reference:https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/fy19_nasa_budget_estimates.pdf(PS-77, page 433 of the PDF)
Which commercial vehicles/variants would be capable of launching Europa Clipper?-which versions of Atlas?-would Vulcan be considered?-Delta 4 Heavy? - New Glenn?- F9/FH?-NGLV/Antares?-Ariane 5/6?
Pappalardo said the mission is continuing to study the use of Delta 4 Heavy and Falcon Heavy as alternatives, but those would require the use of gravity assists that increase the mission’s flight time. The use of the Atlas 5 has been “closed off,” he said.
QuotePappalardo said the mission is continuing to study the use of Delta 4 Heavy and Falcon Heavy as alternatives, but those would require the use of gravity assists that increase the mission’s flight time. The use of the Atlas 5 has been “closed off,” he said.http://spacenews.com/europa-mission-planning-for-possible-budget-cuts-in-2017/
I am surprised that this article has not been shared yet:http://spacenews.com/nasa-budget-proposal-continues-debate-on-when-and-how-to-launch-europa-clipper/Per the article they do not consider Falcon Heavy because they doubt that it will be certified for Class A missions at launch time.
Quote from: AegeanBlue on 02/23/2018 06:13 pmI am surprised that this article has not been shared yet:http://spacenews.com/nasa-budget-proposal-continues-debate-on-when-and-how-to-launch-europa-clipper/Per the article they do not consider Falcon Heavy because they doubt that it will be certified for Class A missions at launch time.One wonders how SLS is supposed to be certified by then.
Quote from: AegeanBlue on 02/23/2018 06:13 pmI am surprised that this article has not been shared yet:http://spacenews.com/nasa-budget-proposal-continues-debate-on-when-and-how-to-launch-europa-clipper/Per the article they do not consider Falcon Heavy because they doubt that it will be certified for Class A missions at launch time.I do not see the words 'Class A' in the article, and am I missing this, or has it changed.
Quote from: Demidrol on 02/14/2018 05:40 pmQuotePappalardo said the mission is continuing to study the use of Delta 4 Heavy and Falcon Heavy as alternatives, but those would require the use of gravity assists that increase the mission’s flight time. The use of the Atlas 5 has been “closed off,” he said.http://spacenews.com/europa-mission-planning-for-possible-budget-cuts-in-2017/Article was dated August 17, 2016. A door closed 1.5 years ago or more could be re-opened?Also, this article quote doesn't appear to preclude use of Vulcan/Centaur.
NASA has studied launching Europa Clipper on both SLS and on the most powerful variant of the United Launch Alliance Atlas 5. SLS offers the ability to fly a fast, direct route to Jupiter, with the spacecraft arriving at the planet less than three years after launch. The Atlas 5 would take more than six years to get Europa Clipper to Jupiter, and require flybys of both Venus and Earth to do so.
Isn’t there some odd situation where Europa Clipper is classed as a class b mission at the moment?
The independent review also raised questions about the risk classification of the mission. WFIRST is considered a “Class B” risk mission by NASA, which means it is high priority but only medium to high cost and with a medium mission lifetime. That is less stringent than the Class A assignments usually given to “strategically important missions with comparable levels of investment and risks,” Zurbuchen wrote.The review, the memo noted, suggested NASA add more engineering development and spare hardware, as well as additional analysis, “to provide a more robust program” than its existing Class B risk classification.
Quote from: Star One on 02/23/2018 08:36 pmIsn’t there some odd situation where Europa Clipper is classed as a class b mission at the moment?You're thinking of the controversial Class B designation for WFIRST:QuoteThe independent review also raised questions about the risk classification of the mission. WFIRST is considered a “Class B” risk mission by NASA, which means it is high priority but only medium to high cost and with a medium mission lifetime. That is less stringent than the Class A assignments usually given to “strategically important missions with comparable levels of investment and risks,” Zurbuchen wrote.The review, the memo noted, suggested NASA add more engineering development and spare hardware, as well as additional analysis, “to provide a more robust program” than its existing Class B risk classification.http://spacenews.com/nasa-seeks-cost-cutting-changes-in-design-of-wfirst-mission/