F9/Crew Dragon : Polaris Dawn : KSC LC-39A : 10 Sep 2024 (09:23 UTC) DISCUSSION

[Lars-J]

SpaceFlightNow has provided some details:


- Launch in November
- The EVA will be with two astronauts.


https://spaceflightnow.com/2022/02/14/billionaire-plans-three-more-flights-with-spacex-culminating-in-starship-mission/

It also mentions that the entire capsule will be depressurized, so the other two crew will wear the IVA suits and remain inside. So there won't be an EVA airlock that replaces the cupola/hatch, it seems.

[Michael S]

With Inspiration4, the purchased price of the flight was never(to my knowledge) fully disclosed; only that it was less than $200 million.  I am trying to wrap my head around the costs with these flights.
These flights are definitely more than just: Up - orbit a few days - Land.  With each flight, new limits are being set and new hardware is being built and flown.
Are the Polaris missions paid for completely by Isaacman, or are they joint ventures between SpaceX and Isaacman, where they are sharing the costs?

[rpapo]

With Inspiration4, the purchased price of the flight was never(to my knowledge) fully disclosed; only that it was less than $200 million.  I am trying to wrap my head around the costs with these flights.
These flights are definitely more than just: Up - orbit a few days - Land.  With each flight, new limits are being set and new hardware is being built and flown.
Are the Polaris missions paid for completely by Isaacman, or are they joint ventures between SpaceX and Isaacman, where they are sharing the costs?

Both sides stand to gain, so there could well have been a deal struck.

[Star One]

The first flight, which could come by the end of the year, will aim to send a crew of four farther than any other human spaceflight in 50 years

So they go far but not as far as the Moon (would have required FH). Minimum apogee to meet this is goal is maybe 600km?

The DearMoon project does have the goal of going farther than ever before.

Could they be going for the Gemini 11 record of 1,300 km?  Not sure how much margin the F9 has for Crew Dragon launches. 

Two of the Crew members where/are SpaceX employees.  Is SpaceX allowing the two employees to temporarily take a sabbatical to do the mission and then come back to SpaceX after it is over?  Would be smart if they did allow this type of flexibility because it would only bring more experience to SpaceX for potential future missions, IE Crewed Mars missions.

Really looking forward to the mission and hopefully another Netflix series!!!!   

Can’t F9 get Crew Dragon up to maximum of a 1000 Km orbit?

[envy887]

The first flight, which could come by the end of the year, will aim to send a crew of four farther than any other human spaceflight in 50 years

So they go far but not as far as the Moon (would have required FH). Minimum apogee to meet this is goal is maybe 600km?

The DearMoon project does have the goal of going farther than ever before.

Could they be going for the Gemini 11 record of 1,300 km?  Not sure how much margin the F9 has for Crew Dragon launches. 

Two of the Crew members where/are SpaceX employees.  Is SpaceX allowing the two employees to temporarily take a sabbatical to do the mission and then come back to SpaceX after it is over?  Would be smart if they did allow this type of flexibility because it would only bring more experience to SpaceX for potential future missions, IE Crewed Mars missions.

Really looking forward to the mission and hopefully another Netflix series!!!!   

Can’t F9 get Crew Dragon up to maximum of a 1000 Km orbit?

LSP website says the payload to 1300 km circular is 12,270 kg, which is right around what Crew Dragon masses. Payload to an elliptical orbit would be a bit higher, though. F9 might be able to push an apogee nearer 2000 km.

Dragon also has a lot of onboard propellant available for maneuvering, too.

[kevinof]

With Inspiration4, the purchased price of the flight was never(to my knowledge) fully disclosed; only that it was less than $200 million.  I am trying to wrap my head around the costs with these flights.
These flights are definitely more than just: Up - orbit a few days - Land.  With each flight, new limits are being set and new hardware is being built and flown.
Are the Polaris missions paid for completely by Isaacman, or are they joint ventures between SpaceX and Isaacman, where they are sharing the costs?

Both sides stand to gain, so there could well have been a deal struck.

My thinking is the Starship flight is 100% on SpaceX as it has to be done anyway. The other two probably have a deal done - they have to “field test” their EVA suits so this is one way of benefiting both sides.

[meekGee]

Don't know about you, but someone leading astronaut training program and mission director having actual spaceflight experience makes absolute sense. Should be almost a job requirement

Not really, trainers and directors in other fields don't require it. 

Over a 150 space missions, where done without it.

... and because in the past, at NASA, it was done without it, it's not a good idea?   

What's the opposite of progress?  The post above.

[Star One]

The first flight, which could come by the end of the year, will aim to send a crew of four farther than any other human spaceflight in 50 years

So they go far but not as far as the Moon (would have required FH). Minimum apogee to meet this is goal is maybe 600km?

The DearMoon project does have the goal of going farther than ever before.

Could they be going for the Gemini 11 record of 1,300 km?  Not sure how much margin the F9 has for Crew Dragon launches. 

Two of the Crew members where/are SpaceX employees.  Is SpaceX allowing the two employees to temporarily take a sabbatical to do the mission and then come back to SpaceX after it is over?  Would be smart if they did allow this type of flexibility because it would only bring more experience to SpaceX for potential future missions, IE Crewed Mars missions.

Really looking forward to the mission and hopefully another Netflix series!!!!   

Can’t F9 get Crew Dragon up to maximum of a 1000 Km orbit?

LSP website says the payload to 1300 km circular is 12,270 kg, which is right around what Crew Dragon masses. Payload to an elliptical orbit would be a bit higher, though. F9 might be able to push an apogee nearer 2000 km.

Dragon also has a lot of onboard propellant available for maneuvering, too.

That certainly sounds like the safety margins would be reduced but from the sound of it Polaris is all about stretching the human space flight envelope.

[yg1968]

SpaceFlightNow has provided some details:


- Launch in November
- The EVA will be with two astronauts.


https://spaceflightnow.com/2022/02/14/billionaire-plans-three-more-flights-with-spacex-culminating-in-starship-mission/

It also mentions that the entire capsule will be depressurized, so the other two crew will wear the IVA suits and remain inside. So there won't be an EVA airlock that replaces the cupola/hatch, it seems.

How would you get out of the capsule if the cupola is there? Through the door? David Naggy speculated on Twitter that there might be a third type of attachment with a door for EVA purposes.

[yg1968]

With Inspiration4, the purchased price of the flight was never(to my knowledge) fully disclosed; only that it was less than $200 million.  I am trying to wrap my head around the costs with these flights.
These flights are definitely more than just: Up - orbit a few days - Land.  With each flight, new limits are being set and new hardware is being built and flown.
Are the Polaris missions paid for completely by Isaacman, or are they joint ventures between SpaceX and Isaacman, where they are sharing the costs?

Both sides stand to gain, so there could well have been a deal struck.

My guess is that Isaacman pays for himself and his employee but not for the SpaceX's employees.

[kdhilliard]

Are the FAA licensing requirements different if Gillis and Menon fly as SpaceX employees (company astronauts) as opposed to private guests of Isaacman while on leave of absence (or even vacation!) from work?

[Star One]

This flight is going to be a bonanza of medical information I mean only a handful of men have previously flown that high and no women. And no one has done it in the ‘digital’ medical era.

[envy887]

Are the FAA licensing requirements different if Gillis and Menon fly as SpaceX employees (company astronauts) as opposed to private guests of Isaacman while on leave of absence (or even vacation!) from work?

The FAA requirements are easier to meet for crew than for passengers, so if anything, flying as SpaceX employees should be easier. But Isaacman is a passenger, so SpaceX needs to meet that bar anyway. It's not like the FAA requirements are anything approaching stringent, so it really shouldn't make much of a difference.

[Lars-J]

SpaceFlightNow has provided some details:


- Launch in November
- The EVA will be with two astronauts.


https://spaceflightnow.com/2022/02/14/billionaire-plans-three-more-flights-with-spacex-culminating-in-starship-mission/

It also mentions that the entire capsule will be depressurized, so the other two crew will wear the IVA suits and remain inside. So there won't be an EVA airlock that replaces the cupola/hatch, it seems.

How would you get out of the capsule if the cupola is there? Through the door? David Naggy speculated on Twitter that there might be a third type of attachment with a door for EVA purposes.

Obviously there will be an EVA hatch instead of a cupola on this flight, sorry for the poor phrasing. We already know that a dragon can be equipped with either 1) a docking hatch, or 2) a cupola. I was just wondering if the 3rd option might have been an EVA hatch or some sort of EVA airlock (maybe inflatable). But it appears to be an EVA hatch.

EDIT: Another neat option might have been an airlock module in the trunk (attached to the 2nd stage for stability?), so just like an Apollo mission the Dragon would rotate and dock with it. But the mass of such an airlock module would preclude them from a higher LEO orbit.

[Star One]

SpaceFlightNow has provided some details:


- Launch in November
- The EVA will be with two astronauts.


https://spaceflightnow.com/2022/02/14/billionaire-plans-three-more-flights-with-spacex-culminating-in-starship-mission/

It also mentions that the entire capsule will be depressurized, so the other two crew will wear the IVA suits and remain inside. So there won't be an EVA airlock that replaces the cupola/hatch, it seems.

How would you get out of the capsule if the cupola is there? Through the door? David Naggy speculated on Twitter that there might be a third type of attachment with a door for EVA purposes.

Obviously there will be an EVA hatch instead of a cupola on this flight, sorry for the poor phrasing. We already know that a dragon can be equipped with either 1) a docking hatch, or 2) a cupola. I was just wondering if the 3rd option might have been an EVA hatch or some sort of EVA airlock (maybe inflatable). But it appears to be an EVA hatch.

I am guessing that it’s an issue in the reporting that makes it sound like it will be flown without an EVA hatch which made no sense to me when I read that.

[butters]

It also mentions that the entire capsule will be depressurized, so the other two crew will wear the IVA suits and remain inside. So there won't be an EVA airlock that replaces the cupola/hatch, it seems.

Are IVA suits, erm, suitable for several hours in an unpressurized environment? The IVA crew would have to remain seated with severely restricted mobility while the pressure bladders are inflated, enough to operate the control console with significant effort but not much more. At the end of the spacewalk, the EVA crew would have to close the hatch and conduct any physical leak check procedures without assistance from the IVA crew. At least give the IVA crew a hot-mic mode for the intercom so they don't get sore thumbs from having to operate the push-to-talk button all day in pressurized gloves. Space-to-ground they'll just have to deal with it.

[yg1968]

SpaceFlightNow has provided some details:


- Launch in November
- The EVA will be with two astronauts.


https://spaceflightnow.com/2022/02/14/billionaire-plans-three-more-flights-with-spacex-culminating-in-starship-mission/

It also mentions that the entire capsule will be depressurized, so the other two crew will wear the IVA suits and remain inside. So there won't be an EVA airlock that replaces the cupola/hatch, it seems.

How would you get out of the capsule if the cupola is there? Through the door? David Naggy speculated on Twitter that there might be a third type of attachment with a door for EVA purposes.

Obviously there will be an EVA hatch instead of a cupola on this flight, sorry for the poor phrasing. We already know that a dragon can be equipped with either 1) a docking hatch, or 2) a cupola. I was just wondering if the 3rd option might have been an EVA hatch or some sort of EVA airlock (maybe inflatable). But it appears to be an EVA hatch.

EDIT: Another neat option might have been an airlock module in the trunk (attached to the 2nd stage for stability?), so just like an Apollo mission the Dragon would rotate and dock with it. But the mass of such an airlock module would preclude them from a higher LEO orbit.

The mission patch provides another clue as it shows an astronaut attached to the front of the capsule:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/polarisprogramphotos/51880377678/

[yg1968]

https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1493269399930814468

[whitelancer64]

SpaceFlightNow has provided some details:


- Launch in November
- The EVA will be with two astronauts.


https://spaceflightnow.com/2022/02/14/billionaire-plans-three-more-flights-with-spacex-culminating-in-starship-mission/

It also mentions that the entire capsule will be depressurized, so the other two crew will wear the IVA suits and remain inside. So there won't be an EVA airlock that replaces the cupola/hatch, it seems.

How would you get out of the capsule if the cupola is there? Through the door? David Naggy speculated on Twitter that there might be a third type of attachment with a door for EVA purposes.

Obviously there will be an EVA hatch instead of a cupola on this flight, sorry for the poor phrasing. We already know that a dragon can be equipped with either 1) a docking hatch, or 2) a cupola. I was just wondering if the 3rd option might have been an EVA hatch or some sort of EVA airlock (maybe inflatable). But it appears to be an EVA hatch.

EDIT: Another neat option might have been an airlock module in the trunk (attached to the 2nd stage for stability?), so just like an Apollo mission the Dragon would rotate and dock with it. But the mass of such an airlock module would preclude them from a higher LEO orbit.

Obviously, there wouldn't be a cupola. Just depressurize the capsule and open the forward hatch. There is no special EVA hatch.

The image shows someone in what looks like an IVA suit with an umbilical, so there would be no airlock.

[kevinof]

From the press conference  - EVA  suit not yet started but will be a combination of EVA and launch suit. EVA will be through the forward hatch with no airlock.