Poll

With both superheavy contenders eyeing a November launch, it's a new race. Who will launch first?

SLS- They will fix their tiny molecular problem and become the most powerful rocket to ever fly.
59 (66.3%)
Starship- They will keep their combustions all chambered and launch a pointy water tower to space.
30 (33.7%)

Total Members Voted: 89

Voting closed: 11/27/2022 05:24 pm


Author Topic: Which will launch first, SLS or Starship?  (Read 9547 times)

Online zubenelgenubi

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Re: Which will launch first, SLS or Starship?
« Reply #40 on: 10/14/2022 07:41 am »
Moderator: I merged duplicate threads.
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Offline edzieba

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Re: Which will launch first, SLS or Starship?
« Reply #41 on: 10/14/2022 11:05 am »
A common misconception: The FAA perform the final sign off (along with SpaceX and all other involved agencies), but they're not the ones doing the legwork.
The FAA received more than 19,000 separate comments from the public on the PEA. Those comments had to be processed, which involves logging them in, adding them to the database, reading them, and responding in at least a cursory way, even when they were astroturfed. Sadly, this process could not be automated much. I don't know how the FAA did it, but I cannot believe an employee could do more than 100/day, so 190 employee-days. FAA cannot have dozens of employees sitting around waiting to process a PEA cycle. It's easy to see why it  took awhile.
Have you looked at the comment response document (Appendix I)? It's 37 pages, and covers 21 questions. The vast majority of which are basically restatements and references to the PEA or to the relevant legalisation under which the PEA was conducted.
There was no individual response to every comment.

Offline DanClemmensen

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Re: Which will launch first, SLS or Starship?
« Reply #42 on: 10/14/2022 03:34 pm »
A common misconception: The FAA perform the final sign off (along with SpaceX and all other involved agencies), but they're not the ones doing the legwork.
The FAA received more than 19,000 separate comments from the public on the PEA. Those comments had to be processed, which involves logging them in, adding them to the database, reading them, and responding in at least a cursory way, even when they were astroturfed. Sadly, this process could not be automated much. I don't know how the FAA did it, but I cannot believe an employee could do more than 100/day, so 190 employee-days. FAA cannot have dozens of employees sitting around waiting to process a PEA cycle. It's easy to see why it  took awhile.
Have you looked at the comment response document (Appendix I)? It's 37 pages, and covers 21 questions. The vast majority of which are basically restatements and references to the PEA or to the relevant legalisation under which the PEA was conducted.
There was no individual response to every comment.
I got an e-mail response to my input: that is an individual response, albeit trivial. I suspect it was mostly automated. However, my input was dutifully added to the database. I know this because the entire database, all 19,000 comments with their attachments, was online. The simple act of creating the database entry and adding my input as an attachment had to be done by a human. If you were sitting at a desk in the FAA office, how many of these could you do in a day? That is the work I was referring to, not some sort of careful, thoughtful individual response. I suspect that the workers doing this work probably only forwarded less than 1000 of the comments up to someone for further analysis and attention, because a large number of comments were cookie-cutter astroturf generated by NRDC(?) on behalf of its membership, but every one of them was in the database.

Offline StarshipTrooper

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Re: Which will launch first, SLS or Starship?
« Reply #43 on: 10/16/2022 02:39 pm »
Many of you have been stating that the SLS is far ahead. However, now the complete Booster 7/Starship 24 prototype is stacked on the launch mount, while SLS is still in the VAB. At what point would you say that the Starship has actually pulled ahead of the SLS?

If the Starship completes a complete wet dress rehearsal, something that SLS has not yet completed, would you agree the Starship has pulled ahead?
I'm very confident that success is within the set of possible outcomes.  Elon Musk

Online Robotbeat

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Re: Which will launch first, SLS or Starship?
« Reply #44 on: 10/16/2022 03:23 pm »
Not just a WDR but a full static fire and FAA license.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Bob Shaw

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Re: Which will launch first, SLS or Starship?
« Reply #45 on: 10/16/2022 03:36 pm »
Many of you have been stating that the SLS is far ahead. However, now the complete Booster 7/Starship 24 prototype is stacked on the launch mount, while SLS is still in the VAB. At what point would you say that the Starship has actually pulled ahead of the SLS?

If the Starship completes a complete wet dress rehearsal, something that SLS has not yet completed, would you agree the Starship has pulled ahead?

First successful flight is probably the only test that counts at this stage, no matter how much spin/excuses/selective facts supporters of either side come out with.

A lot of things have to go well for both rockets to get to that stage and the trials of SLS (with supposedly well-understood technology) are in many ways matched by Starship (with new, poorly understood technology).

A much more interesting question would be: 'how many successful Starship flights will there be by the time of the second successful SLS flight?'.

Offline DanClemmensen

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Re: Which will launch first, SLS or Starship?
« Reply #46 on: 10/16/2022 04:36 pm »
First successful flight is probably the only test that counts at this stage, no matter how much spin/excuses/selective facts supporters of either side come out with.
Yep, Now all we have to argue about (and spin, excuse, and/or select) is the definition of "success".  :)

Offline laszlo

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Re: Which will launch first, SLS or Starship?
« Reply #47 on: 11/16/2022 12:17 pm »
Question answered, time to lock and archive the thread.

Offline JohnFornaro

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Re: Which will launch first, SLS or Starship?
« Reply #48 on: 11/16/2022 12:34 pm »
First successful flight is probably the only test that counts at this stage, no matter how much spin/excuses/selective facts supporters of either side come out with.
Yep, Now all we have to argue about (and spin, excuse, and/or select) is the definition of "success".  :)

No RUD's seems obvious.
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Online Vahe231991

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Re: Which will launch first, SLS or Starship?
« Reply #49 on: 11/16/2022 03:24 pm »
Question answered, time to lock and archive the thread.
It's about time, because the SLS just had its first launch today. It'd be interesting to see if the Starship will be launched next month or next year.

Tags: SLS Starship SpaceX 
 

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