Poll

So, anyone want to guess if Blue Origin will be ready for Artemis V?

Yeah, they'll build a robust lander with time to spare.
6 (20%)
They will need many waivers for non-conforming hardware, but they'll make it.
3 (10%)
They will delay Artemis V by some noticeable time span, but eventually they will make it.
13 (43.3%)
SpaceX will have to provide hardware for Artemis V.
8 (26.7%)
Other (please specify)
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 30

Voting closed: 06/01/2023 07:41 pm


Author Topic: Starship Artemis Contract & Lunar Starship  (Read 1056269 times)

Online Oersted

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Re: Starship Artemis Contract (Lunar Starship)
« Reply #2540 on: 06/09/2023 11:51 am »
Dragon only has about 800 m/s of delta V while it takes 2000 m/s to get from the surface to LLO and 2750 m/s to get to NRHO.  So no Dragon is not a Lunar escape module candidate.

I am thinking of a modified Dragon capsule with the weight of the heat shield (and other unnecessary items) replaced by fuel.

Online Oersted

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Re: Starship Artemis Contract (Lunar Starship)
« Reply #2541 on: 06/09/2023 11:52 am »
In other news, Charlie Duke was invited to advice the team:

https://twitter.com/astro_raja/status/1665058692528480256

Offline yg1968

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Re: Starship Artemis Contract (Lunar Starship)
« Reply #2542 on: 08/01/2023 02:07 am »
See below:

Interesting presentation on the collaboration between SpaceX and NASA on HLS-Starship from 3 months ago. One of the things that was mentioned towards the end (at 18-19m) is that NASA is consulting with the astronauts in the crew office on how to use all of the extra space on Starship:


« Last Edit: 08/01/2023 11:20 am by yg1968 »

Online DanClemmensen

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Re: Starship Artemis Contract (Lunar Starship)
« Reply #2543 on: 08/01/2023 04:24 pm »
Has there been any update on the HLS's landing thrusters? Does this system still exist? SpaceX proposed these high-mounted cosine thrusters for use within 100 meters or so of the lunar surface on descent and ascent in place of the Raptors, to mitigate plume impingement, but Elon later said they might not be needed.

I'm thinking that if present at all, they could be mounted just above the methane top dome and below the floor of the garage. From a naive non-engineering perspective, that space is about the correct shape, is otherwise hard to use, and is likely to be high enough far enough above the lunar surface.  This would also keep the plumbing out of the crew space.
« Last Edit: 08/01/2023 06:00 pm by DanClemmensen »

Offline Paul451

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Re: Starship Artemis Contract (Lunar Starship)
« Reply #2544 on: 08/02/2023 12:38 am »
Has there been any update on the HLS's landing thrusters?[...]
I'm thinking that if present at all, they could be mounted just above the methane top dome and below the floor of the garage. From a naive non-engineering perspective, that space is about the correct shape, is otherwise hard to use, and is likely to be high enough far enough above the lunar surface.  This would also keep the plumbing out of the crew space.

Has there ever been an official or even unofficial render showing the landing thrusters above the cargo-bay and/or crew area?

Both the black-jacket and the black-hat depiction show thrusters below the cargo bay. The former a ring of many small thrusters, the latter three (or four) clusters of three larger thrusters, but always below the crew/cargo.
« Last Edit: 08/02/2023 12:51 am by Paul451 »

Online jpo234

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You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Re: Starship Artemis Contract (Lunar Starship)
« Reply #2546 on: 08/13/2023 12:32 am »
I guess this should go here given the label Jack spotted :p

Quote
The former S22 nosecone with a door that was rolled out today has an electrical box that says "HLS" on it... neat.

https://twitter.com/thejackbeyer/status/1690484679479119873?s=20
« Last Edit: 08/13/2023 12:55 am by spacenuance »

Offline Brigantine

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Re: Starship Artemis Contract (Lunar Starship)
« Reply #2547 on: 08/13/2023 01:25 am »
very curvy looking dome underneath for just crew cabin pressure, isn't it?

Though I suppose it's also carrying some weight under max acceleration.

For comparison, what's the thickness of a typical aft dome, relative to the thinnest layer they can make?

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Starship Artemis Contract (Lunar Starship)
« Reply #2548 on: 08/13/2023 07:11 am »

Offline geza

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Re: Starship Artemis Contract (Lunar Starship)
« Reply #2549 on: 08/13/2023 12:26 pm »
If I understand correctly, we may know the basic layout of the HLS payload section. Good!

I count the rings from the top. The pressurized part is the ogive section together with the volume of the lower bulkhead contained in Rings 1 & 2. Rings 3-4 are the unpressurized garage with the two airlocks at the two sides. Rings 5-6 contains the upper bulkhead of the methane tank, the adapter structure and the landing engines.

Do they need header tanks at the top for the HLS? After all, lunar landing and ascent requires MUCH more fuel, than Earth landing. They would eat up some pressurized volume.

It is huge for two astros for a weak. Even for four ones for a longer period next time. The garage could hold a large rover, but building one is not in the cards for the early flights.

I am speculating, whether this development can be a precursor for the Martian crew vehicle. The huge garage can hold a large pressurized rover and/or can be the receiving location of a large pressurized cargo container for resupplying on the surface. On the other hand, the pressurized space will be much less, that usually imagined. It should accommodate the crew (how many?) for years (incl. solar storms) and contains many tons of consumables.

Online Zed_Noir

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Re: Starship Artemis Contract (Lunar Starship)
« Reply #2550 on: 08/13/2023 11:14 pm »
post with reply to @geza move to the more appropriate NASA HLS (Human Landing System) Lunar Landers thread.
« Last Edit: 08/14/2023 02:44 am by Zed_Noir »

Online DanClemmensen

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Re: Starship Artemis Contract (Lunar Starship)
« Reply #2551 on: 08/13/2023 11:22 pm »
Colleagues, we have several Mars threads. Why don't we use this thread for the Starship Artemis Contract (Lunar Starship) ?

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Starship Artemis Contract (Lunar Starship)
« Reply #2552 on: 08/14/2023 02:19 pm »


Quote
Starbase Update | HLS Mockup Revealed!! Mystery Structures and Booster 9 & Ship 25 Movement

NASASpaceflight
14 Aug 2023

Join us for the latest SpaceX Starbase update with Ryan Caton for NSF. We dive into the dynamic happenings this week - from the movements of Booster 9 and Ship 25 to the first glimpse at SpaceX’s HLS mockup. Also, what's the new mystery structure at Starbase? Dive into the full rundown, all here in one spot. Don't forget to subscribe and hit the bell for live updates!

Offline yg1968

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Re: Starship Artemis Contract (Lunar Starship)
« Reply #2553 on: 08/24/2023 01:26 pm »
See below:

I found the redacted (Base Period and Option A) HLS-Starship contract:
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/80msfc20c0034_contract_redacted_tagged.pdf

Here are some of the amendments:
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/80msfc20c0034-p00001_redacted_tagged.pdf
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/80msfc20c0034-p00002_redacted_tagged.pdf
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/80msfc20c0034-p00003_redacted_tagged.pdf
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/80msfc20c0034-p00004_redacted_tagged.pdf
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/80msfc20c0034-p00005_redacted_tagged.pdf
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/80msfc20c0034-p00006-rif_tagged.pdf
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/80msfc20c0034-p00007_redacted_tagged.pdf
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/80msfc20c0034-p00008_redacted_tagged.pdf
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/80msfc20c0034-p00009_redacted_tagged.pdf
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/80msfc20c0034-p00010_option_a_redacted_tagged.pdf
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/80msfc20c0034-p00011_redacted_tagged.pdf
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/80msfc20c0034-p00012-rif_tagged.pdf
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/80msfc20c0034-p00013-rif_tagged.pdf
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/80msfc20c0034-p00014-rif_tagged.pdf
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/80msfc20c0034-p00015_redacted_tagged.pdf
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/80msfc20c0034-p00016_redacted_tagged.pdf
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/80msfc20c0034-p00017_redacted_tagged.pdf
« Last Edit: 08/24/2023 04:20 pm by yg1968 »

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Starship Artemis Contract (Lunar Starship)
« Reply #2554 on: 09/06/2023 06:14 pm »
https://twitter.com/rgvaerialphotos/status/1699486072948789587

Quote
The HLS nosecone is getting a paint job!

Offline aaminotti

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Re: Starship Artemis Contract (Lunar Starship)
« Reply #2555 on: 09/06/2023 07:07 pm »
Thrusters??
[zubenelgenubi: Attach files, including images.  Do not embed them.
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« Last Edit: 09/06/2023 08:19 pm by zubenelgenubi »

Offline catdlr

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Re: Starship Artemis Contract (Lunar Starship)
« Reply #2556 on: 09/06/2023 07:29 pm »
Thrusters??

Probably, the same set is on the other side (see attached).  These are just representations of how and where they would go.
« Last Edit: 09/06/2023 08:16 pm by zubenelgenubi »
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Online whitelancer64

« Last Edit: 09/06/2023 08:15 pm by zubenelgenubi »
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
"There are lies, damned lies, and launch schedules." - Larry J

Offline AU1.52

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Re: Starship Artemis Contract (Lunar Starship)
« Reply #2558 on: 09/06/2023 07:53 pm »
This was Ship 22 nose cone. The thruster ports are most likely for it being for Ship 22 and not HLS nose cone and now filled in. These parts are now deleted from later Ships.

Online whitelancer64

Re: Starship Artemis Contract (Lunar Starship)
« Reply #2559 on: 09/06/2023 09:21 pm »
*yeet tweet*
Quote
The HLS nosecone is getting a paint job!

I presume that white paint has better thermal reflectivity than plain stainless steel?
 
How about polished stainless steel?
« Last Edit: 09/06/2023 09:23 pm by whitelancer64 »
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
"There are lies, damned lies, and launch schedules." - Larry J

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