Author Topic: Vector Launch (formerly Vector Space Systems)  (Read 402685 times)

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #60 on: 11/06/2016 09:07 pm »
Am I the only one who smells a rat in this PR cascade from Vector?

They say things like they have 100 launches contracted. And statements like "$45m in backlog and another $25m in backlog." (http://usgif.org/system/uploads/4608/original/Vector_Space_USGIF.pdf)

Let's look at this.

The Iceye contract is for 21 launches. But this is a young startup that raised $5.5m in VC and EU grant money 2015/6, and probably has $4.5M of that money left today.

Helsinki, Finland, 12 November 2015 – Iceye announced today a $2.8 million Series A funding round led by True Ventures, with participation from Lifeline Ventures and Founder.org. In September, ICEYE also secured € 2.5 million in R&D funding from SME Instrument within EU Horizon 2020.


There is industry commentary which is hard to take seriously:

And because Iceye is buying in bulk, and in advance (deliveries will begin in 2018), it's getting the best rates Vector has to offer -- somewhere on the order of $20 million to $30 million for the entire project.

Vector R has a 50kg payload bay. $1.5M is the price for the entire bay. Iceye is developing a nanosat, so it won't be taking 50kg or paying 1.5M per launch, even if it had the money to do so.

And then the contract with York Space - a company that is barely a year old, which got seed funding in late 2015, and has 7 employees:

The seven-employee company, currently based in Denver, is establishing a satellite factory near Centennial


And signs an alleged $60m contract?

The launch contract with Vector covers six launches between 2019 and 2022 and can be extended to add 14 more missions, the companies said.

So actually 6 contracted, with an option for 14. The headline figure is just PR noise. Plus, Jim Cantrell is on the York Space Systems advisory board, and Iceye is buying 10 of their platforms. Is it a circle?

And then there are the "fueling test" images, where they basically vent some LOX out of an empty aluminium tube (watch the video, there is only one "fuel" line running to the "rocket" http://vectorspacesystems.com/video/) that was welded up in what looks like Jim's garage (https://scontent.ftxl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13925890_277190145985261_6666894334636149440_o.jpg).

I get that they want to make some noise, but this looks like heavily scented PR that ends up hurting everybody.
ICEYE is not a Cubesat or a nanosat, but an S-Class Microsat from York Space Systems where YSS supplies the SC bus and ICEYE supplies the SC payload (http://www.yorkspacesystems.com/?page_id=30). These are well into production.
http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/iceye.htm


Offline ringsider

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #61 on: 11/06/2016 10:14 pm »
ICEYE is not a Cubesat or a nanosat, but an S-Class Microsat from York Space Systems

Well the S-class is 65-85kg, and the Vector-R handles 50kg, so there is another big mismatch right there...

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #62 on: 11/16/2016 08:42 pm »

Offline Kryten

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #63 on: 11/16/2016 09:15 pm »
Vector testing aerospike engine.

https://mobile.twitter.com/i/web/status/798991167345917952
No they aren't, that's a blog post about Garvey Space's aerospike testing in the early 2000's.

Offline Ronsmytheiii

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #64 on: 11/18/2016 04:05 pm »

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #65 on: 11/18/2016 06:04 pm »
ICEYE is not a Cubesat or a nanosat, but an S-Class Microsat from York Space Systems

Well the S-class is 65-85kg, and the Vector-R handles 50kg, so there is another big mismatch right there...
look at the VSS info in the latest Vector-R Users Guide v1.5 for the Vector-RE1. Also these Microsats are a Custom non standard S-Class Platform being built by YSS.

Offline RanulfC

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #66 on: 11/21/2016 08:55 pm »
Vector testing aerospike engine.

https://mobile.twitter.com/i/web/status/798991167345917952
No they aren't, that's a blog post about Garvey Space's aerospike testing in the early 2000's.

Uhm actually it IS Vector and it states that the testing took place through Garvey who as I understand it is PART of Vector. And yes the blog post makes it very clear it's Vector's co-founder and references his work at Garvey.
http://vectorspacesystems.com/blog/

Randy
From The Amazing Catstronaut on the Black Arrow LV:
British physics, old chap. It's undignified to belch flames and effluvia all over the pad, what. A true gentlemen's orbital conveyance lifts itself into the air unostentatiously, with the minimum of spectacle and a modicum of grace. Not like our American cousins' launch vehicles, eh?

Offline Kryten

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #67 on: 11/21/2016 09:05 pm »
These tests all took place long before Vector was formed, and the blog ends with the author concluding that multi-chamber aerospikes of this sort aren't currently viable.

Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #68 on: 12/08/2016 08:18 am »
Nah, they might exaggerate a bit to gain more visibility and traction, but there isn't anything fantasy-land like here, unlike millions of people on Mars in ten years pronouncements

Nobody has said millions of people on Mars in ten years.  Nobody.

You lose all credibility your point might have had by ridiculous exaggerations like this.

Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #69 on: 12/08/2016 08:23 am »
Quote
Vector Space Systems Receives Additional $1.25M in Seed Funding Led by Space Angels Network

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/vector-space-systems-receives-additional-125m-in-seed-funding-led-by-space-angels-network-300365718.html?tc=eml_cleartime

Seed funding and "angels" means that they haven't convinced a VC firm to give them their first real round of funding yet (that would be "series A", which comes after seed funding).  They're a long way off from flying anything.

Offline Kryten

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #70 on: 12/11/2016 06:37 pm »

Offline ringsider

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #71 on: 12/12/2016 07:27 pm »
They seem to be making progress, but most of it is stuff that Garvey had in train before the re-branding I think.

Here's the list of SBIR grants, all for Garvey, not Vector:-

http://sbir.nasa.gov/content/garvey-spacecraft-corporation

http://sbir.nasa.gov/SBIR/abstracts/12/sbirselect/phase1/SBIR-12-1-S-E1.02-9091.html
http://sbir.nasa.gov/SBIR/abstracts/14/sttr/phase1/STTR-14-1-T1.02-9931.html
http://sbir.nasa.gov/SBIR/abstracts/11/sbir/phase1/SBIR-11-1-O2.01-8344.html
http://sbir.nasa.gov/SBIR/abstracts/11/sbir/phase2/SBIR-11-2-O2.01-8344.html
http://sbir.nasa.gov/SBIR/abstracts/07/sbir/phase1/SBIR-07-1-S4.01-8929.html

The first of these reveals Garvey's plans before Vector took over:

TECHNICAL ABSTRACT (Limit 2000 characters, approximately 200 words)

The technical innovation proposed here is the continued functional evolution and concept refinement of an incremental series of test vehicles that will ultimately provide dedicated, low-cost, reliable, on-demand routine space access for the emerging nano and micro satellite markets. Initial orbital operational capability for delivering 10 kg to a 250 km circular LEO is achieved with a two-stage, pressure-fed "10/250" Nanosat Launch Vehicle (NLV) that will pathfind performance, production, regulatory and operational challenges. This NLV will then be followed by a clustered "20/450" Nano/Micro Satellite Launch Vehicle (NMSLV) that addresses this topic's primary objective of providing a capability to place nano and micro satellites weighing up to 20 kg into 450 km circular LEO.
Aggressive leveraging of our team's existing NLV development initiative enables significant hardware development and the start of static fire testing during Phase I, followed by actual flight testing in Phase II for TRL-7 technology evaluations. These tests have incrementally introduced state of the art capabilities like advanced propellants (LOX/propylene) and structures (composite cryogenic tanks). The Phase I effort focuses on the development of the next class of test vehicle – a high altitude suborbital single booster stage (the "P-K") that features closed-loop thrust vector control (TVC) and candidate avionics technologies for guidance and navigation, as well as eventual autonomous flight termination systems (AFTS) for range safety, TRDRSS-based telemetry and tracking functions. In addition, it will incorporate features needed to implement the clustered first stage configuration and second stage separation method associated with the 20/450 NMSLV. The Phase II effort will then focus on the further development of an NMSLV-type first stage with two additional core boosters, for a total of three, and the conducting of a high-altitude demonstration flight.

POTENTIAL NASA COMMERCIAL APPLICATIONS (Limit 1500 characters, approximately 150 words)
Currently, 10/250 NLV-class test vehicles are already providing suborbital reusable launch services for NASA. The next generation of such pathfinder test vehicles developed under this program will extend the test envelope for enabling launch technologies and operations needed to effectively implement orbital NMSLV-based operations.
Longer term, the NMSLV configuration that emerges from this effort will be able to support such NASA programs like LSP's ELaNA and the Edison small satellite research initiative. These can then be followed by launch and maintenance of global monitoring systems that feature low-cost CubeSat-class spacecraft.

POTENTIAL NON-NASA COMMERCIAL APPLICATIONS (Limit 1500 characters, approximately 150 words)
Current NLV-class test vehicles are now being used to manifest and evaluate a variety of new launch vehicle technologies, including composite cryo propellant tanks, alternative hydrocarbon fuels (methane, propane and propylene), wireless data networking, and advanced vortex engines under TRL-6 and 7 environments. The next generation of NMSLV-based test vehicles will expand these to TRL 8 and 9 conditions, while still providing secondary payload opportunities for small developers and STEM initiatives.
Longer term, the resulting operational NMSLV can support the implementation of CubeSat-based commercial earth monitoring constellations, global space weather monitoring constellations for the Air Force, and rapid response for such organizations as the Army's SMDC and DOD Special Operations Command, as well as providing dedicated launch services for the DOD Space Test Program, Operationally Responsive Launch Office and the NRO's Colony II initiative.
« Last Edit: 12/17/2016 06:54 am by ringsider »

Offline savuporo

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #72 on: 12/17/2016 12:40 am »
http://www.kgun9.com/news/local-news/vector-space-secures-25-year-lease-in-tucson-hiring-200-employees
Vector Space Systems secures 25-year lease in Tucson, hiring 200 employees

Must be very confident in funding.
Orion - the first and only manned not-too-deep-space craft

Offline ringsider

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #73 on: 12/17/2016 06:14 am »
http://www.kgun9.com/news/local-news/vector-space-secures-25-year-lease-in-tucson-hiring-200-employees
Vector Space Systems secures 25-year lease in Tucson, hiring 200 employees

Must be very confident in funding.
200 x 75000 = 15 million dollars a year in salaries.

For a 6 month old startup company still raising seed-level $1m angel money off a mock-up and living off $1-2m in SBIR pork projects.

Such utter horse manure.

This kind of stupid PR will backfire eventually, it will be a mess bigger than Firefly in the end. And it will hurt other companies because nobody will trust the sector.

Cantrell is going to ruin Garvey's relatively good name with this crap.
« Last Edit: 12/17/2016 06:15 am by ringsider »

Offline Katana

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #74 on: 12/17/2016 07:11 am »
http://www.kgun9.com/news/local-news/vector-space-secures-25-year-lease-in-tucson-hiring-200-employees
Vector Space Systems secures 25-year lease in Tucson, hiring 200 employees

Must be very confident in funding.
200 x 75000 = 15 million dollars a year in salaries.

For a 6 month old startup company still raising seed-level $1m angel money off a mock-up and living off $1-2m in SBIR pork projects.

Such utter horse manure.

This kind of stupid PR will backfire eventually, it will be a mess bigger than Firefly in the end. And it will hurt other companies because nobody will trust the sector.

Cantrell is going to ruin Garvey's relatively good name with this crap.

Already bigger than SpaceX in 2006, with a pressure fed small rocket?
« Last Edit: 12/17/2016 07:12 am by Katana »

Offline ringsider

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #75 on: 12/17/2016 07:38 am »
http://www.kgun9.com/news/local-news/vector-space-secures-25-year-lease-in-tucson-hiring-200-employees
Vector Space Systems secures 25-year lease in Tucson, hiring 200 employees

Must be very confident in funding.
200 x 75000 = 15 million dollars a year in salaries.

For a 6 month old startup company still raising seed-level $1m angel money off a mock-up and living off $1-2m in SBIR pork projects.

Such utter horse manure.

This kind of stupid PR will backfire eventually, it will be a mess bigger than Firefly in the end. And it will hurt other companies because nobody will trust the sector.

Cantrell is going to ruin Garvey's relatively good name with this crap.

Already bigger than SpaceX in 2006, with a pressure fed small rocket?

Spacex had a guy with $100m behind it who could make those kind of financial commitments. Vector is raising small money for space and doesn't have a sugar daddy.

I don't mind truthful PR but this company is just vomiting crappy numbers and has been for months. It hurts everybody in the sector a) because more honest PR looks less impressive and b) because when it all comes crashing down the fire spreads to the innocent.

VSS is making all the classic startup mistakes of being too loud, too fast.
« Last Edit: 12/17/2016 07:48 am by ringsider »

Offline savuporo

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #76 on: 12/17/2016 05:19 pm »
Already bigger than SpaceX in 2006, with a pressure fed small rocket?
No, their current team is pretty small. Plans to hire about 200 over next couple years - which sounds about the bare minimum to actually start building and operate an orbital rocket that works.
Orion - the first and only manned not-too-deep-space craft

Offline ringsider

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #77 on: 12/17/2016 06:52 pm »
ICEYE is not a Cubesat or a nanosat, but an S-Class Microsat from York Space Systems
Well the S-class is 65-85kg, and the Vector-R handles 50kg, so there is another big mismatch right there...
look at the VSS info in the latest Vector-R Users Guide v1.5 for the Vector-RE1. Also these Microsats are a Custom non standard S-Class Platform being built by YSS.

VSS 2016-11 V1.5:-

Payload

• 30 kg (75 lbm) to 450 km (243) nmi Sun Synchronous Orbit (SSO)
• 50 kg / 110 lbm to 200 km / 108 nmi circular 28.5 degree inclination Low Earth Orbit (LEO)

Offline ringsider

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #78 on: 02/17/2017 05:10 pm »
"Kanematsu Corporation (KG) is pleased to announce the intention to establish a business
collaboration through strategic investment with Vector Space Systems (Vector) for micro
launch vehicles and related services."

Not yet on Vector's Website as far as I can see. Not yet closed either.

Kanematsu Corporation expands business to small launch vehicle area - Enters into agreement to work with Vector
Quote
February 3rd 2017

Kanematsu Corporation (KG) is pleased to announce the intention to establish a business collaboration through strategic investment with Vector Space Systems (Vector) for micro launch vehicles and related services.

Vector will offer small launch vehicles dedicated to micro satellites and related services. Vector's CEO Jim Cantrell was involved in the start-up of SpaceX, an influential company which provides heavy lift launch vehicles. Incidentally, Vector's CTO John Garvey had developed nanosat launch vehicles at Garvey Space Corp. (GSC) for 15 years prior to joining the team.

Vector took over GSC's IP, assets and team in 2016, and is in the development of providing operational launch services by 2018. Vector has already been awarded contracts in several countries, including a contract with the United States' NASA program.

In the current space industry, although there is growing demand in the micro satellite launch market, customers can only launch micro satellites using heavy launch vehicles, mounting their satellites into space through medium and large class satellites launches. This is problematic because customers cannot select the desired launch timing, and are limited in orbit to send the satellites. After 2018, Vector will enable Japanese customers to launch their low-cost microsatellites into a desired orbit and at their preferred timing. In addition to this launch capability, Vector will provide satellite simulation services using virtual machine technology through the GalacticSky program.

KG has extensive experience in space business through sales transactions with European and American satellite manufacturers/satellite on-board equipment suppliers, satellite control system providers and rocket downrange system providers. KG will leverage synergy in addition to its domestic and international network with Vector, to make a strong showing in future business collaborations and further expand space businesses.

About Vector
Establishment : March in 2016
CEO : Jim Cantrell
Location : 824 E, 16th Street, Tucson AZ 85719
Business lineup: Development of launch vehicle and satellite simulation, launch service and its related services

Contact:
Public & Investor Relations Section, Kanematsu Corporation
Tel: +81-3-5440-8000
« Last Edit: 02/17/2017 05:43 pm by gongora »

Offline Ragmar

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Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #79 on: 02/21/2017 12:32 pm »
"Strategic investment with Vector Space Systems"

Does this read as KG is giving Vector money?

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