With the new global warming limit of 1.5 °C the space community will be under pressure to avoid fuels containing hydrocarbons.
Quote from: A_M_Swallow on 11/04/2018 09:30 am With the new global warming limit of 1.5 °C the space community will be under pressure to avoid fuels containing hydrocarbons.No, it wont
Hydrogen maybe green fuel but production of it isn't.The most common hydrogen production process is natural gas reforming — sometimes called steam methane reforming because it uses high-temperature steam. When exposed to steam and heat, the carbon (C) atoms of methane (CH4) separate. After two successive reactions, they reform separately to produce hydrogen (H2) and carbon dioxide (carbon dioxide (co₂)). This operation therefore requires natural gas.
Quote from: TrevorMonty on 11/04/2018 05:37 pmHydrogen maybe green fuel but production of it isn't.The most common hydrogen production process is natural gas reforming — sometimes called steam methane reforming because it uses high-temperature steam. When exposed to steam and heat, the carbon (C) atoms of methane (CH4) separate. After two successive reactions, they reform separately to produce hydrogen (H2) and carbon dioxide (carbon dioxide (co₂)). This operation therefore requires natural gas.I hope there is not some hidden agenda of support for natural gas and its newish production hiding behind Hydrogen, just like biofuels becoming an environmental disaster! I'm glad of your post as its so easy to just assume Hydrogen is always made from water by electrolysis!
Quote from: DistantTemple on 11/04/2018 10:03 pmQuote from: TrevorMonty on 11/04/2018 05:37 pmHydrogen maybe green fuel but production of it isn't.The most common hydrogen production process is natural gas reforming — sometimes called steam methane reforming because it uses high-temperature steam. When exposed to steam and heat, the carbon (C) atoms of methane (CH4) separate. After two successive reactions, they reform separately to produce hydrogen (H2) and carbon dioxide (carbon dioxide (co₂)). This operation therefore requires natural gas.I hope there is not some hidden agenda of support for natural gas and its newish production hiding behind Hydrogen, just like biofuels becoming an environmental disaster! I'm glad of your post as its so easy to just assume Hydrogen is always made from water by electrolysis!Note that if you have a carbon-neutral source of hydrogen, you can feed it into the Sabatier reaction along with atmospheric CO2 to produce carbon-neutral methane (CH4). Methane, being significantly denser than H2, is generally easier to store, transport, and use. So there's really no reason to convert anything that burns methane to use hydrogen.
I hope there is not some hidden agenda of support for natural gas and its newish production hiding behind Hydrogen, just like biofuels becoming an environmental disaster!
I know that it seems like natural gas will be the future of rocketry in the near future. Plentiful, low cost, infrastructure in place, clean burning, and can be made on Mars. Hydrogen will also be, however it may be relegated to upper stages. Other than SLS, don't see much use for a hydrogen booster. I think the most efficient boosters in the near future will be kerolox, metholox, and solids.
Quote from: spacenut on 11/05/2018 02:47 pmI know that it seems like natural gas will be the future of rocketry in the near future. Plentiful, low cost, infrastructure in place, clean burning, and can be made on Mars. Hydrogen will also be, however it may be relegated to upper stages. Other than SLS, don't see much use for a hydrogen booster. I think the most efficient boosters in the near future will be kerolox, metholox, and solids. Current solar panels in bulk are bouncing around the 30 cents per W level.
This solar farm in the southern state of Tamil Nadu in India has a capacity of 648 megawatts and covers an area of 10 square kilometres. In 2016, this project was deemed to be the largest solar power plant at a single location. The project comprises 2.5 million individual solar modules and cost approximately 679 million USD to build.
Quote from: Jim on 11/04/2018 01:09 pmQuote from: A_M_Swallow on 11/04/2018 09:30 am With the new global warming limit of 1.5 °C the space community will be under pressure to avoid fuels containing hydrocarbons.No, it wontYes it will.As an international public relations exercise future politicians will need to make public statements showing the USA is fighting global warming. NASA is the world's premiere scientific/engineering organisation. It will be cheaper to order NASA to display some new machine using hydrogen than say buy the US air force hydrogen powered air craft.The Centaur is a good start. I suspect that NASA makes or buys other machines that use hydrogen.
Quote from: A_M_Swallow on 11/04/2018 04:25 pmQuote from: Jim on 11/04/2018 01:09 pmQuote from: A_M_Swallow on 11/04/2018 09:30 am With the new global warming limit of 1.5 °C the space community will be under pressure to avoid fuels containing hydrocarbons.No, it wontYes it will.As an international public relations exercise future politicians will need to make public statements showing the USA is fighting global warming. NASA is the world's premiere scientific/engineering organisation. It will be cheaper to order NASA to display some new machine using hydrogen than say buy the US air force hydrogen powered air craft.The Centaur is a good start. I suspect that NASA makes or buys other machines that use hydrogen.Rocket launches are something to the effect of 0.00003% of all carbon dioxide pollution. There are far, FAR bigger fish to fry. Jim is absolutely correct.
Yes. Even a thousand BFR launches per year in a full Mars settlement program would have little impact on global CO2.As seen in previous posts, the biggest near-term reduction in CO2 would be converting coal power plants to natural gas. Just convincing people to turn off lights and computers when not in use would have a big impact.
Quote from: RonM on 11/05/2018 06:23 pmYes. Even a thousand BFR launches per year in a full Mars settlement program would have little impact on global CO2.As seen in previous posts, the biggest near-term reduction in CO2 would be converting coal power plants to natural gas. Just convincing people to turn off lights and computers when not in use would have a big impact.True but that is engineering not politics.