Author Topic: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET May 2026  (Read 40671 times)

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET May 2026
« on: 05/10/2023 10:10 am »
Discussion thread for Haven-1 mission

Other threads:
   Vast Space thread



https://www.vastspace.com/updates/vast-announces-the-haven-1-and-vast-1-human-spaceflight-mission-launched-by-spacex-on-a-dragon-spacecraft

Quote
VAST Announces the Haven-1 and VAST-1 Missions.
MAY 10, 2023

LONG BEACH, CALIFORNIA
SCHEDULED TO BE THE WORLD’S FIRST COMMERCIAL SPACE STATION, HAVEN-1 AND SUBSEQUENT HUMAN SPACEFLIGHT MISSIONS WILL ACCELERATE ACCESS TO SPACE EXPLORATION.

LONG BEACH, Calif. — May 10, 2023 — Vast, a pioneer in space habitation technologies, announced today their plans to launch the world’s first commercial space station, called Haven-1. Scheduled to launch on a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket to low-Earth orbit no earlier than August 2025, Haven-1 will initially act as an independent crewed space station prior to being connected as a module to a larger Vast space station currently in development. The mission will be quickly followed by Vast-1, the first human spaceflight mission to Haven-1 on a SpaceX Dragon spacecraft. The vehicle and its four-person crew will dock with Haven-1 for up to 30 days while orbiting Earth. Vast also secured an option with SpaceX for an additional human spaceflight mission to Haven-1.

This represents the first time in history that a commercial space station company has both a contracted launch for its space station and a visiting human spaceflight mission.

“Vast is thrilled to embark on this journey of launching the world's first commercial space station, Haven-1, and its first crew, Vast-1,” said Jed McCaleb, CEO of Vast. “We are grateful to SpaceX for this exciting partnership that represents the first steps in Vast’s long-term vision of launching much larger, artificial gravity space stations in Earth orbit and beyond.”

“A commercial rocket launching a commercial spacecraft with commercial astronauts to a commercial space station is the future of low-Earth orbit, and with Vast we’re taking another step toward making that future a reality,” said Tom Ochinero, Senior Vice President of Commercial Business at SpaceX. “The SpaceX team couldn’t be more excited to launch Vast’s Haven-1 and support their follow-on human spaceflight missions to the orbiting commercial space station.”

Vast’s long-term goal is to develop a 100-meter-long multi-module spinning artificial gravity space station launched by SpaceX’s Starship transportation system. In support of this, Vast will explore conducting the world’s first spinning artificial gravity experiment on a commercial space station with Haven-1.

Vast is selling up to four crewed seats on the inaugural mission to Haven-1. Expected customers include domestic and international space agencies and private individuals involved in science and philanthropic projects. Visit vastspace.com/reserve for more details.

SpaceX will also provide crew training on Falcon 9 and the Dragon spacecraft, emergency preparedness, spacesuit and spacecraft ingress and egress exercises, as well as partial and full mission simulations including docking and undocking with Haven-1 for return to Earth.

HAVEN-1 FEATURES:

Compatible docking with the SpaceX Dragon spacecraft

Extend the on-orbit duration of commercial Dragon spacecraft human spaceflight missions for up to 30 days for four astronauts

Science, research, and in-space manufacturing opportunities - 1000 W of power, 24/7 communications, and up to 150 kg of pre-loaded cargo mass in Haven-1. Opportunities for lunar artificial gravity by spinning.

Fully independent space station providing life support functions and consumables for the full mission’s duration.

Privacy and control of your crew schedule

Large window dome for viewing and photography

Always-on internet via onboard Wi-Fi

Room to stretch and rest

VAST-1 - OUR FIRST EXPEDITION TO HAVEN-1

‍‍Fly to Haven-1 in a SpaceX Dragon spacecraft launched by the Falcon 9 rocket

For space agencies and private individuals

Fly four crew members to Haven-1 for up to 30 days

Be the first crew to visit the world’s first commercial space station

Available per seat or as a full, four-person crew mission

Advanced science, research, and in-space manufacturing opportunities
« Last Edit: 02/06/2025 01:54 pm by Galactic Penguin SST »

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #1 on: 05/10/2023 10:13 am »

Offline hektor

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #2 on: 05/10/2023 11:09 am »
Sadly,  no information on inclination and altitude.

Offline daedalus1

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #3 on: 05/10/2023 11:12 am »
Probably be 28° to maximise payload from Florida

Offline hektor

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #4 on: 05/10/2023 11:12 am »
That would make sense but limits the share of Earth surface which is visible for the crew.

Offline daedalus1

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #5 on: 05/10/2023 11:30 am »
That would make sense but limits the share of Earth surface which is visible for the crew.

That's more than 50%

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #6 on: 05/10/2023 02:26 pm »
https://twitter.com/spacex/status/1656239445161709569

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We’re excited to work with @Vast to create greater access to space and more opportunities for exploration on the road to making humanity multiplanetary

Online scr00chy

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #7 on: 05/10/2023 03:13 pm »
Sadly,  no information on inclination and altitude.

Official website says 500 km circular.

https://www.vastspace.com/

Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #8 on: 05/10/2023 04:37 pm »
Sadly,  no information on inclination and altitude.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/05/vast-says-it-will-launch-its-first-space-station-in-2025-on-a-falcon-9/?utm_brand=arstechnica&utm_source=twitter&utm_social-type=owned&utm_medium=social

Quote
In terms of crew safety, Vast intends to launch the space station into a 500-km orbit at the same inclination as the International Space Station.

Edit: Also should include this, seems that Dragon will be helping out with the life support onboard station
Quote
The partnership with SpaceX is the key to making this mission happen. Not only will the 3.8-meter-wide Haven-1 module launch inside a Falcon 9 rocket, but part of its life-support systems will also be provided by the Crew Dragon spacecraft when the vehicle is docked.
« Last Edit: 05/10/2023 04:40 pm by spacenuance »

Offline abaddon

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #9 on: 05/10/2023 04:56 pm »
Makes sense to have it at ISS inclination, means all of the Dragon flight paths abort/recovery zones etc are the same as for an ISS launch and are already well-established.

Offline wannamoonbase

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #10 on: 05/10/2023 05:05 pm »
Sadly,  no information on inclination and altitude.

Official website says 500 km circular.

https://www.vastspace.com/

This weight estimate is not much more than the Crew Dragon (12,500 kg on Wikipedia) without the limitations of a crew launch trajectory could these even be a RTLS?

A space station with a RTLS would really be something.
We very much need orbiter missions to Neptune and Uranus.  The cruise will be long, so we best get started.

Offline Tomness

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #11 on: 05/10/2023 05:20 pm »
This suspiciously looks like Dragon XL, but could be different.

Offline DanClemmensen

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #12 on: 05/10/2023 05:29 pm »
This suspiciously looks like Dragon XL, but could be different.
Probably quite different. Among other things, Dragon XL needs to have an "active mode" IDSS port,  while Haven-1 needs to have a "passive mode" IDSS port. While an "active/passive" port is possible, the active-mode HW is somewhat complex and heavy.  And that's just the end of the RPOD. Dragon XL must be the active spacecraft for the entire RPOD, with  an appropriate set of thrusters and software.

Offline wannamoonbase

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #13 on: 05/10/2023 05:49 pm »
This suspiciously looks like Dragon XL, but could be different.

I don't know about that, but it does look like SpaceX was helping or at very least inspiring aspects of the design.
We very much need orbiter missions to Neptune and Uranus.  The cruise will be long, so we best get started.

Offline Comga

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #14 on: 05/10/2023 07:21 pm »
I would describe this as cool and interesting, but aspirational, immature, and unlikely.

The video clip show Haven-1 firing attitude control thrusters.
However, it is not clear how these would be refueled.
On the ISS this function is primarily served by Progress vehicles, which bring fuel, and with their constant presence serve to both reboost the ISS and to desaturate the momentum storing devices, which there are Control Moment Gyros (CMGs).
With a single docking port Vast needs some alternative way to bring fuel, perhaps transferring something from the trunk of the Dragon to the exterior of Haven-1.

A 500 km orbit will reduce the need for reboosting, but will increase the frequency of Collision Avoidance Maneuvers (CAMs).
While Dragon can serve this purpose while attached, there has to be some system for doing this in the intervals when it is not, but there is no such system visible.  This will increase the need to refuel the thrusters.

Not only will there be more CAMs than at the ~415 km altitude of the ISS, but there will be a lot more impacts from small, untrackable debris. 
They can't leave that "Vistadome" exposed on the end.
Haven-1 may need some Whipple shields over much of the exterior, too.

The solar panels appear to be fixed with respect to the body of Haven.
They might have one degree of freedom, rotation about the hinge, but even Blue Reef went away from that, finally adding a second degree of freedom.

Speaking of Blue Reef's solar panels, no thermal radiator is shown.   
Maybe they can get away with a flush panel like Crew Dragon, but that would go against shielding the exterior and be quite limited.

And rotating for simulating "lunar gravity"?
The video suggests this rotation would be axial.
Let's suppose that's for berths just inside the pressure vessle, which would be at most 2 meters from the axis.
w=sqrt(1.625 m/s²/2m)=0.9/sec
so it would have to rotate in 2*pi/0.9=7.0 sec or almost 9 RPM.
Doesn't that seem pretty fast?
And wouldn't it be hard to maintain rotation about the axis with the smallest moment of inertial?
Meanwhile the power generation would be reduced by a factor of 2*Pi and any thermal radiators might get sunlight on them.

Makes sense to have it at ISS inclination, means all of the Dragon flight paths abort/recovery zones etc are the same as for an ISS launch and are already well-established.

I disagree.  The 51.6 degrees inclination of the ISS is specifically to overfly the launch site for Soyuz and Progress, and comes at significant expense in terms of launch capacity, weather restrictions for aborts, days of contunuous solar illumination which would get worse at 500 km, and others.  Given all the stuff Vast has to design, designing new abort scenarios is a minor addition.

I truly wish Vast luck in their endeavors, but am not adding these flights to the my personal version of the manifest.


edit: I was unaware, or forgot that there is an existing thread on the Vast station.
« Last Edit: 05/10/2023 08:36 pm by Comga »
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #15 on: 05/10/2023 07:28 pm »
https://www.spacex.com/updates/index.html

Quote
MAY 10, 2023
SPACEX TO LAUNCH VAST’S COMMERCIAL SPACE STATION AND FIRST HUMAN SPACEFLIGHT MISSION

Vast announced today that SpaceX will launch what is expected to be the world’s first commercial space station, known as Vast Haven-1, quickly followed by two human spaceflight missions to said space station. Scheduled to launch on a Falcon 9 rocket to low-Earth orbit no earlier than August 2025. Haven-1 will be a fully-functional independent space station and eventually be connected as a module to a larger Vast space station currently in development.

Upon launch of Haven-1, Falcon 9 will launch Vast’s first human spaceflight mission to the commercial space station, Vast-1. Dragon and its four-person crew will dock with Haven-1 for up to 30 days while orbiting Earth. Vast also secured an option for an additional human spaceflight mission to the station aboard a Dragon spacecraft.

The Vast-1 crew selection process is underway and the crew will be announced at a future date. Once finalized, SpaceX will provide crew training on Falcon 9 and the Dragon spacecraft, emergency preparedness, spacesuit and spacecraft ingress and egress exercises, as well as partial and full mission simulations including docking and undocking for return to Earth.

Vast’s long-term goal is to develop a 100-meter-long multi-module spinning artificial gravity space station launched by SpaceX’s Starship transportation system. In support of this, Vast will explore conducting the world’s first spinning artificial gravity experiment on a commercial space station with Haven-1.

This new partnership between Vast and SpaceX will continue to create and accelerate greater accessibility to space and more opportunities for exploration on the road to making humanity multiplanetary.

Offline DanClemmensen

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #16 on: 05/10/2023 07:31 pm »
Makes sense to have it at ISS inclination, means all of the Dragon flight paths abort/recovery zones etc are the same as for an ISS launch and are already well-established.
I disagree.  The 51.6 degrees inclination of the ISS is specifically to overfly the launch site for Soyuz and Progress, and comes at significant expense in terms of launch capacity, weather restrictions for aborts, days of contunuous solar illumination which would get worse at 500 km, and others.  Given all the stuff Vast has to design, designing new abort scenarios is a minor addition.

I truly wish Vast luck in their endeavors, but am not adding these flights to the my personal version of the manifest.
I assumed that they intend to put it into the same plane as ISS  to allow the crew of each station to use the other station as an emergency refuge with a minimal delta-V maneuver.

Offline whitelancer64

Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #17 on: 05/10/2023 07:53 pm »
I would describe this as cool and interesting, but aspirational, immature, and unlikely.

The video clip show Haven-1 firing attitude control thrusters.
However, it is not clear how these would be refueled.
On the ISS this function is primarily served by Progress vehicles, which bring fuel, and with their constant presence serve to both reboost the ISS and to desaturate the momentum storing devices, which there are Control Moment Gyros (CMGs).
With a single docking port Vast needs some alternative way to bring fuel, perhaps transferring something from the trunk of the Dragon to the exterior of Haven-1.

A 500 km orbit will reduce the need for reboosting, but will increase the frequency of Collision Avoidance Maneuvers (CAMs).
While Dragon can serve this purpose while attached, there has to be some system for doing this in the intervals when it is not, but there is no such system visible.  This will increase the need to refuel the thrusters.

Not only will there be more CAMs than at the ~415 km altitude of the ISS, but there will be a lot more impacts from small, untrackable debris. 
They can't leave that "Vistadome" exposed on the end.
Haven-1 may need some Whipple shields over much of the exterior, too.

The solar panels appear to be fixed with respect to the body of Haven.
They might have one degree of freedom, rotation about the hinge, but even Blue Reef went away from that, finally adding a second degree of freedom.

Speaking of Blue Reef's solar panels, no thermal radiator is shown.   
Maybe they can get away with a flush panel like Crew Dragon, but that would go against shielding the exterior and be quite limited.

And rotating for simulating "lunar gravity"?
The video suggests this rotation would be axial.
Let's suppose that's for berths just inside the pressure vessle, which would be at most 2 meters from the axis.
w=sqrt(1.625 m/s²/2m)=0.9/sec
so it would have to rotate in 2*pi/0.9=7.0 sec or almost 9 RPM.
Doesn't that seem pretty fast?
And wouldn't it be hard to maintain rotation about the axis with the smallest moment of inertial?
Meanwhile the power generation would be reduced by a factor of 2*Pi and any thermal radiators might get sunlight on them.

Makes sense to have it at ISS inclination, means all of the Dragon flight paths abort/recovery zones etc are the same as for an ISS launch and are already well-established.

I disagree.  The 51.6 degrees inclination of the ISS is specifically to overfly the launch site for Soyuz and Progress, and comes at significant expense in terms of launch capacity, weather restrictions for aborts, days of contunuous solar illumination which would get worse at 500 km, and others.  Given all the stuff Vast has to design, designing new abort scenarios is a minor addition.

I truly wish Vast luck in their endeavors, but am not adding these flights to the my personal version of the manifest.

I suspect Haven will be much like Skylab, fully fueled for its operational lifetime at launch. Yeah, that dome is definitely going to have to have a MMOD cover.

However, keep in mind, Haven is not the end game for Vast - they are planning a much, much larger space station. This is likely to end up being like Tiangong 1/2, a precursor module visited only a few times before they launch the big multimodule space station.
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Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #18 on: 05/10/2023 08:50 pm »
twitter.com/jimmydramauk/status/1656335903126683648

Quote
File this under: Never gonna happen

https://twitter.com/hanskoenigsmann/status/1656337442541060096

Quote
That’s what people said to SpaceX too

twitter.com/rocketrepreneur/status/1656395197847334912

Quote
Agreed. I don't think what they're trying to do is particularly crazy. The timeline is ambitious, but it looks like they may be trying to leverage a lot of subsystems from SpaceX's Dragon for this first module.

https://twitter.com/rocketrepreneur/status/1656395439321792513

Quote
Given their strong funding situation, worst case they  miss their NET Aug 2025 date, but I'd be surprised if the Vast team couldn't pull this off.

Offline abaddon

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #19 on: 05/10/2023 09:09 pm »
One of the reasons to really like this concept is it's lack of ambition.  That's a good thing!  All of the mega-amazing designs for complex orbital facilities serviced by spaceplanes look great in renders, but are unlikely to ever be funded and/or technically feasible with current level technology.  This one looks very doable, which means still challenging and the possibility of failure is high (space is hard), but achievable.  Only requires two regular-stick F9 launches to make use of it at least one time is nice too, that's about as cheap from a launch perspective as you can get.

Offline Skyrocket

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #20 on: 05/11/2023 12:06 am »
Speaking of Blue Reef's solar panels, no thermal radiator is shown.   
Maybe they can get away with a flush panel like Crew Dragon, but that would go against shielding the exterior and be quite limited.

The body mounted radiators on Dragon and Haven look much the same.

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #21 on: 05/11/2023 12:15 am »
Speaking of Blue Reef's solar panels, no thermal radiator is shown.   
Maybe they can get away with a flush panel like Crew Dragon, but that would go against shielding the exterior and be quite limited.

The body mounted radiators on Dragon and Haven look much the same.
SpaceX might be a contractor as spacecraft propulsion also looks SpaceX sized along with the Dragon 1 type solar arrays..  It could also be artistic license.
« Last Edit: 05/11/2023 12:17 am by russianhalo117 »

Offline Skyrocket

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #22 on: 05/11/2023 12:19 am »
Speaking of Blue Reef's solar panels, no thermal radiator is shown.   
Maybe they can get away with a flush panel like Crew Dragon, but that would go against shielding the exterior and be quite limited.

The body mounted radiators on Dragon and Haven look much the same.
SpaceX might be a contractor as spacecraft propulsion also looks SpaceX sized along with the Dragon 1 type solar arrays..  It could also be artistic license.
Indeed, solid information is somewhat sparse.
Although I wouldn't be surprised if SpaceX was the prime contractor.
« Last Edit: 05/11/2023 12:20 am by Skyrocket »

Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #23 on: 05/11/2023 01:09 am »
Speaking of Blue Reef's solar panels, no thermal radiator is shown.   
Maybe they can get away with a flush panel like Crew Dragon, but that would go against shielding the exterior and be quite limited.

The body mounted radiators on Dragon and Haven look much the same.
SpaceX might be a contractor as spacecraft propulsion also looks SpaceX sized along with the Dragon 1 type solar arrays..  It could also be artistic license.

I would have assumed they would use propulsion from Launcher's Orbiter tug given they acquired the company 3 months ago.

Offline Mariusuiram

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #24 on: 05/11/2023 02:59 pm »

I truly wish Vast luck in their endeavors, but am not adding these flights to the my personal version of the manifest.

I suspect Haven will be much like Skylab, fully fueled for its operational lifetime at launch. Yeah, that dome is definitely going to have to have a MMOD cover.

However, keep in mind, Haven is not the end game for Vast - they are planning a much, much larger space station. This is likely to end up being like Tiangong 1/2, a precursor module visited only a few times before they launch the big multimodule space station.

Either the Ars or SpaceNews write up of this confirms they are trying to load it entirely on the ground, make use of Dragon for as much as possible, and they hope Haven-1 will be able to serve 3 30-day missions. The fact that they are only hoping to get 3 missions to the station seems to align with all the other details about not creating a new ISS, but really just a minimal viable product.

Given they are self funded and from what I understand he has already made his scam money (meaning his billions of net worth are not tied up in a current scam company), it seem surprisingly possible.

Offline wannamoonbase

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #25 on: 05/11/2023 03:14 pm »

I truly wish Vast luck in their endeavors, but am not adding these flights to the my personal version of the manifest.

I suspect Haven will be much like Skylab, fully fueled for its operational lifetime at launch. Yeah, that dome is definitely going to have to have a MMOD cover.

However, keep in mind, Haven is not the end game for Vast - they are planning a much, much larger space station. This is likely to end up being like Tiangong 1/2, a precursor module visited only a few times before they launch the big multimodule space station.

Either the Ars or SpaceNews write up of this confirms they are trying to load it entirely on the ground, make use of Dragon for as much as possible, and they hope Haven-1 will be able to serve 3 30-day missions. The fact that they are only hoping to get 3 missions to the station seems to align with all the other details about not creating a new ISS, but really just a minimal viable product.

Given they are self funded and from what I understand he has already made his scam money (meaning his billions of net worth are not tied up in a current scam company), it seem surprisingly possible.

3-30 day visits makes me think the business case is to sell up to twelve 30 day tourist trips to LEO.

What's the cost per person that justifies the use of a Crew Dragon and a Space Station?
We very much need orbiter missions to Neptune and Uranus.  The cruise will be long, so we best get started.

Offline whitelancer64

Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #26 on: 05/11/2023 03:57 pm »

I truly wish Vast luck in their endeavors, but am not adding these flights to the my personal version of the manifest.

I suspect Haven will be much like Skylab, fully fueled for its operational lifetime at launch. Yeah, that dome is definitely going to have to have a MMOD cover.

However, keep in mind, Haven is not the end game for Vast - they are planning a much, much larger space station. This is likely to end up being like Tiangong 1/2, a precursor module visited only a few times before they launch the big multimodule space station.

Either the Ars or SpaceNews write up of this confirms they are trying to load it entirely on the ground, make use of Dragon for as much as possible, and they hope Haven-1 will be able to serve 3 30-day missions. The fact that they are only hoping to get 3 missions to the station seems to align with all the other details about not creating a new ISS, but really just a minimal viable product.

Given they are self funded and from what I understand he has already made his scam money (meaning his billions of net worth are not tied up in a current scam company), it seem surprisingly possible.

3-30 day visits makes me think the business case is to sell up to twelve 30 day tourist trips to LEO.

What's the cost per person that justifies the use of a Crew Dragon and a Space Station?

If $20 million per seat, 20x12 = $240 million. Less than this seems very implausible.
If $25 million per seat, 25x12 = $300 million.
If $30 million per seat, 30x12 = $360 million.
If $35 million per seat, 35x12 = $420 million.  +1 Bonus for funny number association.
If $40 million per seat, 40x12 = $480 million.
If $45 million per seat, 45x12 = $540 million.
If $50 million per seat, 50x12 = $600 million. Here we are getting into government spending territory.
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Offline cpushack

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #27 on: 05/11/2023 07:11 pm »
Quote
If $50 million per seat, 50x12 = $600 million. Here we are getting into government spending territory.

Who knows on the price, but its certainly not inconceivable for some Govt agency to take advantage of a private space station for some experiment or other purpose.   Think X-37 mission but something that needs babysat or managed hands on.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #28 on: 05/11/2023 07:35 pm »
I expect Haven will be expensive to start with. Need Starship to make this stuff affordable.
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Offline neoforce

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #29 on: 05/11/2023 08:02 pm »

If $20 million per seat, 20x12 = $240 million. Less than this seems very implausible.
If $25 million per seat, 25x12 = $300 million.
If $30 million per seat, 30x12 = $360 million.
If $35 million per seat, 35x12 = $420 million.  +1 Bonus for funny number association.
If $40 million per seat, 40x12 = $480 million.
If $45 million per seat, 45x12 = $540 million.
If $50 million per seat, 50x12 = $600 million. Here we are getting into government spending territory.



I expect Haven will be expensive to start with. Need Starship to make this stuff affordable.

The beauty of their plan is it assumes Starship will succeed so they don't need to be profitable with Haven-1.  This is an Minimally Viable Product, that builds expertise for their company and is (most likely) not expected to make money. 

Offline wannamoonbase

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #30 on: 05/11/2023 08:09 pm »
I expect Haven will be expensive to start with. Need Starship to make this stuff affordable.

I don't know that launch costs would affect the per seat cost per visitor. 

For easy math say the F9 launch is $60M, that's $5M per person.

It will be years from now before Starships low launch costs really appear, but lets say it's $30M in 2-3 years, that's $2.5M per person.

The biggest cost per person maybe Crew Dragon, then Haven and Haven launch costs far down the list.

I think $100M per person to visit is a minimum.
We very much need orbiter missions to Neptune and Uranus.  The cruise will be long, so we best get started.

Offline whitelancer64

Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #31 on: 05/11/2023 08:24 pm »
I expect Haven will be expensive to start with. Need Starship to make this stuff affordable.

I don't know that launch costs would affect the per seat cost per visitor. 

For easy math say the F9 launch is $60M, that's $5M per person.

It will be years from now before Starships low launch costs really appear, but lets say it's $30M in 2-3 years, that's $2.5M per person.

The biggest cost per person maybe Crew Dragon, then Haven and Haven launch costs far down the list.

I think $100M per person to visit is a minimum.

$60 million / 4 = $15 million

Yes, the per seat would need to be more than that to cover the costs of building, outfitting, and operating the Haven station. 

$100 million per person would either be a huge amount of profit, or would assume that the Haven station will cost well in excess of $500 million in total.
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Offline DeimosDream

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #32 on: 05/11/2023 09:05 pm »
The CrewDragon capsule is just as expensive as the Falcon it rides on. These missions probably aren't going to cost the same $200M+ as SpaceX charges NASA (less paperwork, less ground support required for 30-days vs 180-days, etc) but $500M is probably a good guess for Haven + 3x Crew Dragon missions.

I'll speculate they'll charge Axiom like prices. Visitors get a smaller less equipped station but are allowed a longer stay than NASA permits ISS visitors.


One of the reasons to really like this concept is it's lack of ambition.  That's a good thing!  All of the mega-amazing designs for complex orbital facilities serviced by spaceplanes look great in renders, but are unlikely to ever be funded and/or technically feasible with current level technology.  This one looks very doable, which means still challenging and the possibility of failure is high (space is hard), but achievable.  Only requires two regular-stick F9 launches to make use of it at least one time is nice too, that's about as cheap from a launch perspective as you can get.

Agreed! I was originally dismissive of Vast for having unrealistic unsustainable delusions of grandeur, but this humble start is promising.

Offline wannamoonbase

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #33 on: 05/11/2023 09:46 pm »
I expect Haven will be expensive to start with. Need Starship to make this stuff affordable.

I don't know that launch costs would affect the per seat cost per visitor. 

For easy math say the F9 launch is $60M, that's $5M per person.

It will be years from now before Starships low launch costs really appear, but lets say it's $30M in 2-3 years, that's $2.5M per person.

The biggest cost per person maybe Crew Dragon, then Haven and Haven launch costs far down the list.

I think $100M per person to visit is a minimum.

$60 million / 4 = $15 million

Yes, the per seat would need to be more than that to cover the costs of building, outfitting, and operating the Haven station. 

$100 million per person would either be a huge amount of profit, or would assume that the Haven station will cost well in excess of $500 million in total.

$60M may get you an F9 launch, but not a F9 + Crew Dragon.

My original reference to $60M was just for the Haven launch.

There major costs appear to be:
1 - Space Station
3 - Crew Dragon flights complete with training.
4 - F9 flights

Even at SpaceX prices that is a lot of money.
We very much need orbiter missions to Neptune and Uranus.  The cruise will be long, so we best get started.

Offline TomH

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #34 on: 05/11/2023 11:11 pm »
I expect Haven will be expensive to start with. Need Starship to make this stuff affordable.

The Heavenly Honeymoon Hotel. The first renters may well be film producers of a certain genre, anxious to film certain scenes in weightlessness while the "actors" float around in micro-G. That industry has enough cash and would get considerable ROI via internet.

Then there will be many rich couples with a great desire to follow.
« Last Edit: 05/12/2023 06:58 am by TomH »

Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #35 on: 05/12/2023 06:37 pm »
I think likely $160-200M per launch ($40-50M per seat).  This assumes that they are also using SpaceX's SpaceXtronaut Space Training Program and all the amenities (space food, dragon toilet, repurposed cupola... for 30 days)  3 launches - say $600M

The station has got to cost at least that again - say $600M

So all in, that's $100M/person ($1,200M/12).  For 30 days, that's $3.3M/person/day.  Not too bad


Offline StraumliBlight

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #36 on: 04/30/2024 01:25 am »
April 8th, response to CRSRA regarding satellite disposal, it will have a 3 year operational life before controlled deorbit.

https://www.space.commerce.gov/wp-content/uploads/Vast-Response-to-RFI-on-Satellite-Disposal-and-Debris-Mitigation.pdf

Offline StraumliBlight

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #37 on: 05/23/2024 01:14 pm »


Quote
Unveiling our Haven-1 primary structure pathfinder which proved we could build in house all the critical geometries, transitions, and interfaces of Haven-1. Next up - building the primary structure qualification article which will undergo pressure and load tests. Designed, manufactured, and tested in-house in the 🇺🇸

Offline gongora

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« Last Edit: 08/01/2024 01:29 pm by Galactic Penguin SST »

Offline StraumliBlight

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #39 on: 08/05/2024 12:01 am »


Quote
Vast’s Vibe Test Lab is crucial for testing Haven Demo and Haven-1 components for dynamic loads experienced during launch to low Earth orbit. With our in-house capabilities, we benefit from rapid response to design changes, accelerated timelines by avoiding outsourcing delays, and seamless feedback to engineering and design teams. Our vertically-integrated engineering approach is hardware rich and enhances product quality with a tight design/test feedback loop that will support our development and reliability as we head into long-term production of our commercial space habitats.

Offline StraumliBlight

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #40 on: 09/17/2024 10:25 pm »
Launch date is currently "H2 2025" from today's NAC-HEO meeting.

EDIT: NAC-HEO presentation
« Last Edit: 09/22/2024 06:40 pm by StraumliBlight »

Online Vultur

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #41 on: 09/18/2024 03:53 am »
"Haven Demo satellite integration and test campaign for launch in Q1 2025" - is this some separate pathfinder launch?

Offline zubenelgenubi

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #42 on: 09/18/2024 05:11 am »
"Haven Demo satellite integration and test campaign for launch in Q1 2025" - is this some separate pathfinder launch?
That's the way I read it.
FWIW
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Offline Skyrocket

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #43 on: 09/18/2024 09:38 am »
"Haven Demo satellite integration and test campaign for launch in Q1 2025" - is this some separate pathfinder launch?

It is a technology demonstration satellite to be launched on the Bandwagon-3 mission. The satellite has a launch mass of ~500 kg.

There is a drawing on the VAST website, showing a hexagonal satellite with one solar panel, but in the ODAR document, a different box shaped satellite is shown, which is most likely the real appearance.

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025
« Reply #44 on: 09/18/2024 08:41 pm »
Thank you! I had not seen that.

Offline AndrewM

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET Q4 2025
« Reply #45 on: 12/02/2024 05:39 pm »
Delayed to Q4.

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/maxhaot_the-future-of-commercial-space-missions-activity-7263646996786216960-5F0N?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop

Quote
The launch of their first commercial space station, Haven-1, is currently scheduled for NET Q4 2025.

The first crew will launch to Haven-1 approximately three months after the station’s deployment.

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Offline StraumliBlight

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET Q4 2025
« Reply #47 on: 01/29/2025 01:44 am »
Vast and SpaceX Issue Joint Request for Research Proposals to Advance Long-Term Human Habitation in Space [Jan 28]

Quote
Vast and SpaceX announced a joint request for research proposals from the global space science community aimed at advancing long-term human habitation and exploration in space. Building on their established partnership, the two companies seek high-impact research projects to support humanity on Earth and advance our capacity to live and work in Earth orbit and beyond. Submitted proposals will be evaluated based on scientific and technical merit, feasibility, and alignment with mission objectives. Approved research proposals will be able to leverage the capabilities of the Haven-1 Lab, Dragon spacecraft, and/or private astronaut missions to the International Space Station (ISS). 

Haven-1 is scheduled to be the world’s first commercial space station and crewed microgravity research, development, and manufacturing platform. This groundbreaking facility will enable cutting-edge research and technological advancements, opening new frontiers in space science.

“The Haven-1 Lab provides a revolutionary platform for advancing collaborative efforts in science, research, and in-space manufacturing innovation. By partnering with the scientific community, we aim to build on the invaluable legacy research on the ISS, enabling pioneering research to address real-world solutions and pursuing transformative research opportunities to address and eventually overcome some of the most critical health and scientific challenges of space exploration—challenges that also hold the potential to improve life on Earth,” said Vast CEO, Max Haot.

While no direct funding will be provided to the research project, Vast and SpaceX will offer selected researchers access to a hosted orbital laboratory, on-orbit crew time, and support for project design and flight qualification—at no cost.

This initiative reflects Vast’s and SpaceX’s dedication to fostering collaboration with the global scientific community and international partners. By providing access to microgravity environments to the broader scientific community, Vast will gain valuable experience working with partners in an operational orbital station that will be incorporated into the design and architecture of Haven-2–the proposed successor to the ISS.

https://www.spacex.com/v2/humanspaceflight/research/submit
https://www.vastspace.com/haven-1-user-guide

https://twitter.com/vast/status/1884268010824949804
« Last Edit: 01/29/2025 04:09 pm by StraumliBlight »

Offline catdlr

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET Q4 2025
« Reply #48 on: 02/02/2025 04:50 am »
Haven-1 Development Update - January 2025

Quote
Jan 29, 2025
Here is the latest as we build the team, facilities, and hardware to launch the world’s first commercial space station. Every step brings us closer to redefining space exploration. Stay tuned for more milestones as we make history. We are proud to bring space station primary structure manufacturing back to the United States. 🇺🇸

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Offline GewoonLukas_

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET Q4 2025
« Reply #49 on: 02/06/2025 01:21 pm »
Now targeting May 2026 for launch:

Quote
Vast Passes Critical Haven-1 Test Milestone
February 6, 2025

[...]

‍At Vast, transparency is a core value. We believe in sharing accurate, realistic timelines with our team, potential hires, partners, customers, and the public as soon as practical. Keeping everyone informed fosters trust and alignment across all stakeholders.

When we launched the Haven-1 program, we set a target of launching no earlier than August 2025, giving ourselves a two-year, three-month development window.

With the completion of our primary structure qualification test and a fully assembled team, we now have greater clarity on our build and launch schedule. As a result, we are updating our timeline:

[...]
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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET May 2026
« Reply #50 on: 04/07/2025 10:43 pm »
Still tracking to the published schedule as of their latest update.

Quote
Haven-1 is scheduled to launch no earlier than May 2026.
[Apr 3]

Offline StraumliBlight

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET May 2026
« Reply #51 on: 05/07/2025 05:42 pm »
SFN: Vast to complete Haven-1 primary structure in July 2025, ahead of target May 2026 launch date [May 7]

Quote
The company based in Long Beach, California, aims to launch its single-module Haven-1 space station on a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket in May 2026. To that end, it completed both its primary structure and qualification article and is moving into manufacturing the flight version.

“We’ve locked the design, we’ve released those drawings to our manufacturing CNC shop and we are welding it with a view to start integration and complete the flight primary structure by the end of July,” said Vast CEO Max Haot. “So, a lot more visible progress. We are just finishing out control room now. The team is there, everybody’s focused and locked in on it and we’re getting it done.”

[...]

A Vast spokesperson confirmed on April 28, 2025, that both the Oxygen Pressurization Demonstration and Large Window Pressure Test milestones were successfully completed and said others, like the Air Revitalization Characterization Test, are also in the books.

“We’re progressing on track aligned with our scheduled launch of Haven-1 in May 2026. We will complete the manufacturing and testing of the flight primary structure in July 2025 and later in the summer, we’ll launch Haven Demo, an in-orbit testbed for critical space station technologies and qualified hardware and software,” the Vast spokesperson said.

“From July-December 2025, we’ll complete the vehicle integration and checkout, including subsystem manufacturing and testing. Then the environmental test campaign (acoustics, vibration, EMI, TVAC) will take place at NASA’s Glenn Research Center at the Neil Armstrong Test Facility from January-March 2026 before the final step of pre-launch operations and planning.”



https://twitter.com/vast/status/1976840186358382805

Quote
The Haven-1 flight article has been painted. Next, key components including the hatch and domed window will be integrated ahead of pressure and load testing in Mojave, CA.

https://twitter.com/maxhaot/status/1978172176357294559

Quote
Two Haven-1 primary structures, the qualification and flight article, side by side at Vast headquarters in Long Beach, California. All built in-house. 🇺🇸
« Last Edit: 10/22/2025 07:25 pm by StraumliBlight »

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET May 2026
« Reply #52 on: 11/07/2025 04:47 pm »
Still a good amount of work to go before it ships to to Glenn for environmental testing at the end of the year/early next year. Would be nice to know if they are still on track to complete vehicle integration and checkout in December.

https://twitter.com/vast/status/1983670000243372131 [Oct. 29]

Quote
Another milestone completed.

The Haven-1 primary structure, including the hatch and domed window, has completed pressure and load acceptance testing in Mojave, CA. Next up: final weld inspections and integration in our clean room.

Offline StraumliBlight

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET May 2026
« Reply #53 on: 12/12/2025 08:38 pm »
https://twitter.com/vast/status/1999554396410249718

Quote
Radiator vibration testing is underway for Haven-1. At our Long Beach facility, we’re qualifying this critical system to ensure it can withstand launch vibrations and reliably shed heat from the station’s internal cooling loops.
« Last Edit: 12/12/2025 08:39 pm by StraumliBlight »

Offline catdlr

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET May 2026
« Reply #54 on: 12/22/2025 10:24 pm »
https://twitter.com/vast/status/2003231282998988820

Quote
Vast
@vast
·
Simulating station operations on the ground is fundamental to building Haven-1 hardware and improving flight safety. Earlier this month, we tested @GoToImpulse Saiph Thruster on our multi thruster vacuum stand. Haven Demo flew with 3 thrusters and Haven-1 will operate 48.
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Offline catdlr

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET May 2026
« Reply #55 on: 01/09/2026 07:51 pm »
https://twitter.com/vast/status/2009729099993055328

Quote
Vast
@vast
·
The twelve deployable solar array wings for Haven-1 (flight units) are undergoing acceptance inspection at Vast HQ.
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Re: SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET May 2026
« Reply #56 on: 01/11/2026 10:54 am »
The last four tweets - within the past two months - are all about qualifying components. How should this launch in 2026? It is still a long way to integrate and qualify the whole thing.
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