Quote from: OxCartMark on 03/23/2016 01:11 pmQuote from: MarekCyzio on 03/23/2016 11:55 am(restricted airspace) Anyone care to delve into the truthiness of this restricted airspace? Restricted by FAA? Restricted by local ordinance? Restricted by port authority (is that possible on mostly non-port side of the waterway?) Restricted only in the minds of the police?And what are the limits of its restrictedness? For instance, if you moved another 100' off of that property would it be OK?I wonder if it was SpaceX that pushed for this?.By FAA apparently. See this reddit comment:https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/4bgxok/asds_ocisly_aerial_video_march_21_2016_pic_in/d197l6pQuoteThere's not "legislation" exactly, which is to say, congress isn't passing laws specifically blocking off each restricted airspace. That's up to the FAA (although based on authority given by congress). R-2932 is the restricted airspace block over Port/Cape Canaveral and is continuously in effect below 5000'. Above 5000' for that same block is R-2933. Then there are a couple larger zones (R-2934 to the west and north and R-2935 that forms a "C" to the N/W/S of all the above) that are enabled as needed. These would apply to everything that flies. You have to get permission from the airspace's controlling authority, which I believe is the space wing there.Looks like tomorrow R-2933 is active from 0222 to 0417 and again from 1400 to 1800 (times are Zulu). R-2934 is active tomorrow from 0222 to 0417. I recall hearing something about R-2935 rarely being activated (only for manned flight or something like that?).You can checkout special use airspaces at the FAA website here: https://sua.faa.gov/sua/siteFrame.appEdit: Oh, right, Orbital is launching at 0315 tonight, so that explains 2933 and 2934 going active from 0222 to 0417.
Quote from: MarekCyzio on 03/23/2016 11:55 am(restricted airspace) Anyone care to delve into the truthiness of this restricted airspace? Restricted by FAA? Restricted by local ordinance? Restricted by port authority (is that possible on mostly non-port side of the waterway?) Restricted only in the minds of the police?And what are the limits of its restrictedness? For instance, if you moved another 100' off of that property would it be OK?I wonder if it was SpaceX that pushed for this?.
(restricted airspace)
There's not "legislation" exactly, which is to say, congress isn't passing laws specifically blocking off each restricted airspace. That's up to the FAA (although based on authority given by congress). R-2932 is the restricted airspace block over Port/Cape Canaveral and is continuously in effect below 5000'. Above 5000' for that same block is R-2933. Then there are a couple larger zones (R-2934 to the west and north and R-2935 that forms a "C" to the N/W/S of all the above) that are enabled as needed. These would apply to everything that flies. You have to get permission from the airspace's controlling authority, which I believe is the space wing there.Looks like tomorrow R-2933 is active from 0222 to 0417 and again from 1400 to 1800 (times are Zulu). R-2934 is active tomorrow from 0222 to 0417. I recall hearing something about R-2935 rarely being activated (only for manned flight or something like that?).You can checkout special use airspaces at the FAA website here: https://sua.faa.gov/sua/siteFrame.appEdit: Oh, right, Orbital is launching at 0315 tonight, so that explains 2933 and 2934 going active from 0222 to 0417.
...rather than doing what-if, why not try to figure out what SpaceX is doing and why and what things they are going to try next. Some of the best threads on the site are those kind (the barge threads in many cases are like that)
When does the ASDS need to leave port? (if we assume worst case distance, a mostly ballistic reentry rather than a boostback)
QuoteWhen does the ASDS need to leave port? (if we assume worst case distance, a mostly ballistic reentry rather than a boostback)No assumption necessary. FCC transmitter permit gives the expected ASDS position as around 160 nmi off the Cape. At 5 knots, the ASDS can get there in around 32 hours. So they could leave port as late as 2 days prior to launch and still have plenty of time to set up at the LZ.(For future reference, the expected ASDS position is 30.5N, 78.5W)
Re: the other party of Lar's question: I think we haven't been able to get a good handle on paperwork delays because the paperwork shows up online well after it must have been complete and "on file". But I wouldn't doubt that they've got a good relationship with the inspectors and can get what they need in good time. Can anyone do some paperwork sleuthing to put tighter bounds on the paperwork delay?
Paperwork delays: In reality, with cost no obstacle, there are none. They'll arrange for the inspector to come and take a final look once the work is complete and they're sweeping up ready to leave (he may even be checking daily progress already..). He'll sign-off right then and away they go. The paperwork gets lodged when the inspector gets around to it - maybe that day or maybe later.. it doesn't matter, just as long as he signs off (and, more importantly, that they fix anything he doesn't like) before they leave the dock.EDIT: Final inspection for something like this should take no longer than an hour, excluding a celebratory beer or two dockside. Painting will take a couple of days because there's at least two coats to go on over that primer and it's something the inspector will want to see.
I think the CRS flights are within the F9's performance range for RTLS...
(For future reference, the expected ASDS position is 30.5N, 78.5W)
Paperwork delays: In reality, with cost no obstacle, there are none. They'll arrange for the inspector to come and take a final look once the work is complete and they're sweeping up ready to leave (he may even be checking daily progress already..). He'll sign-off right then and away they go. The paperwork gets lodged when the inspector gets around to it - maybe that day or maybe later.. it doesn't matter, just as long as he signs off (and, more importantly, that they fix anything he doesn't like) before they leave the dock.
EDIT: Final inspection for something like this should take no longer than an hour, excluding a celebratory beer or two dockside. Painting will take a couple of days because there's at least two coats to go on over that primer and it's something the inspector will want to see.
Curiositization-There are quite a few radars around a port including I assume the CG, and whoever runs the port. These radars don't rely on transponders, they are old school primary radar. How evident would a drone be on that radar? Probably not much since a drone has little in the may of area or reflective materials and marine radar doesn't care about vertical motion or even speed (?). So that's not how the police were brought in so quickly to harsh the drone is it?
Quote from: CameronD on 03/24/2016 12:40 amPaperwork delays: In reality, with cost no obstacle, there are none. They'll arrange for the inspector to come and take a final look once the work is complete and they're sweeping up ready to leave (he may even be checking daily progress already..). He'll sign-off right then and away they go. The paperwork gets lodged when the inspector gets around to it - maybe that day or maybe later.. it doesn't matter, just as long as he signs off (and, more importantly, that they fix anything he doesn't like) before they leave the dock.I would be surprised if anyone can pay an official agency for faster service, and in fact that might be illegal (I see OxCartMark just alluded to that before I did). I'd also be surprised if multiple inspections aren't required to coincide with the various stages of repair. I acted as contractor for a bathroom remodel in my own home, which can be done w/o a license, and multiple interim inspections were required for such as plumbing, floor structure, electric, and fireproofing. I paid a one time charge based on the estimated cost of construction, and that included all inspections. I don't recall having to wait long for an inspection before the construction could continue, but it was around Christmas when a lot of people are sitting out construction.
My final was definitely brief, and even allowed me to fudge a bit (by allowing me to keep a two handle shower fixture instead of the coded single handle), the inspector said, "Because it's Christmas," haha. I don't recall drinking any beer afterwards though. Another surprise will be if an inspection of the paint is required. Really?? That seems a bit extreme. Home construction does not even require inspection of tile installations.Edit: I will say this about the paint though. Some paint requires 48-72 hours dry time between coats, and my guess would be the tough kind of paint required on seagoing vessels would fall into that category. Also, the glazing putty that goes around window glass to waterproof windows before painting is technically supposed to be allowed to dry for a couple of weeks before painting. The people I hired painted over it the same week and now a lot of it is falling off. I imagine there's plenty of waterproofing substance(s) required for this vessel.
im not familiar with ship industry but are we sure there is actually a government mandated inspection of repairs? id think theyd only have to satisfy the barge owner?
Quote from: dorkmo on 03/24/2016 03:54 amim not familiar with ship industry but are we sure there is actually a government mandated inspection of repairs? id think theyd only have to satisfy the barge owner? Yes. No. (You guys will be calling me "Barge Jim" soon..
Quote from: CameronD on 03/24/2016 06:28 amQuote from: dorkmo on 03/24/2016 03:54 amim not familiar with ship industry but are we sure there is actually a government mandated inspection of repairs? id think theyd only have to satisfy the barge owner? Yes. No. (You guys will be calling me "Barge Jim" soon.. could they get around this by using a flag of convenience for the barge?
found somethinghttps://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2011/12/14/2011-32007/seagoing-barges"In 1993, Congress exempted from inspection seagoing barges that are unmanned and not carrying hazardous material as cargo, or carrying a flammable or combustible liquid, including oil, in bulk."https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2014-title46/html/USCODE-2014-title46-subtitleII-partB-chap33-sec3302.htm"(m) A seagoing barge is not subject to inspection under section 3301(6) of this title if the vessel is unmanned and does not carry—(1) a hazardous material as cargo; or(2) a flammable or combustible liquid, including oil, in bulk."not a lawyer so not sure if this actually covers what it sounds like
Sounds fair enough. Don't really care if a non-toxic barge sinks through bad maintenance - that's the owners fault. Unless of course it sinks somewhere important and gets in the way.Makes a nice reef for coral etc. Lot's of tanks and old ships out there already doing that.