Author Topic: Rocket Lab Venus Mission - NET Dec 30, 2024  (Read 45313 times)

Offline Hug

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Rocket Lab Venus Mission - NET Dec 30, 2024
« on: 07/29/2020 09:34 am »
So recently the New Zealand Space Agency announced on twitter that Rocket Lab will be launching a New Zealand mission to Venus in 2023.

https://twitter.com/nzspacegovt/status/1287622059707654152?s=20
Quote
Peter Beck @RocketLab has Venus in his sights planning a NZ mission there in 2023. #Venus #space

This has been hinted at for a while, with Beck mentioning the planet as a favourite of his and such subtle hints as
Quote
Hypercurie is our latest spacecraft engine... and It’s perfect to get payloads to the moon and..........Venus!
https://twitter.com/Peter_J_Beck/status/1283635288133103616?s=20

They're very likely planning on using the interplanetary version of the Photon, for which a lot of the key technologies will be demonstrated on Capstone. Cost wise, this mission could be on the cheaper side of things. The Capstone launch contract costed 10mil US$, so a rough ballpark of 30-40mil US$ for the entire mission seems plausible. Payload wise, Beck has indicated that they'll have about 20kg to play with on a Venus mission. What sort of scientific instruments would fit into that mass margin? Also any idea of what sort of mission profile it'll fly?
« Last Edit: 10/30/2023 08:44 pm by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Rocket Lab Venus Mission
« Reply #1 on: 07/29/2020 10:40 am »
Sounds like NZ space Agency is paying for it. RL is capable of building spacecraft plus payload and managing mission. I'm hoping its not 100% RL but input from other groups in NZ eg university so we increase our skill base outside just RL.

Mission is likely to closer to USD20M.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Rocket Lab Venus Mission
« Reply #2 on: 07/29/2020 02:19 pm »
That’s pretty sweet. Is it just an orbiter, or does it include an aerial or surface element?
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Rocket Lab Venus Mission
« Reply #3 on: 07/29/2020 06:11 pm »
That’s pretty sweet. Is it just an orbiter, or does it include an aerial or surface element?
At 20kg of payload, most likely orbiter with sensors. Might be able to do cubesat size probe.
NB still don't know who is paying for this mission, but Beck's tweets imply NZ.

Offline NZ1

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Re: Rocket Lab Venus Mission
« Reply #4 on: 07/29/2020 07:46 pm »
Peter Beck talked about Venus on a recent Reddit AMA.

---------
SandsOfMars9:

How big is the Rocket Lab probe that will go into the atmosphere of Venus be?

Will it float in the Venus atmosphere?

Is it a balloon probe?

Is there an orbiter as well to relay the probe data back to earth?

PeterJBeck
Still early days. The point of the probe is to look for possible life in Venus' atmosphere. Current probe candidates are about 25 kg and have about 6 mins of time in the sweet spot. Photon will act as the relay back to Earth.

Offline high road

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Re: Rocket Lab Venus Mission
« Reply #5 on: 07/29/2020 10:18 pm »
6 minutes? Sounds like a drop probe to study the UV absorbing layer

Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: Rocket Lab Venus Mission
« Reply #6 on: 07/29/2020 11:40 pm »
PeterJBeck
Still early days. The point of the probe is to look for possible life in Venus' atmosphere. Current probe candidates are about 25 kg and have about 6 mins of time in the sweet spot. Photon will act as the relay back to Earth.

Given how early the planning for this mission is, I wonder how likely it is to actually launch.  As we all know, a lot of plans are announced for space projects that don't end up happening.

There's been speculation about who will pay for this, but no announcement so far.  I think that's telling.  I think if financing was already secure it would have been announced.  There's nothing small space companies like to publicize more than funding.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Rocket Lab Venus Mission
« Reply #7 on: 07/30/2020 01:32 am »
Peter Beck talked about Venus on a recent Reddit AMA.

---------
SandsOfMars9:

How big is the Rocket Lab probe that will go into the atmosphere of Venus be?

Will it float in the Venus atmosphere?

Is it a balloon probe?

Is there an orbiter as well to relay the probe data back to earth?

PeterJBeck
Still early days. The point of the probe is to look for possible life in Venus' atmosphere. Current probe candidates are about 25 kg and have about 6 mins of time in the sweet spot. Photon will act as the relay back to Earth.
Sweet. Awesome concept for a minimal mission: Dropsonde with a cheap spacecraft bus for relay. Perfect.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: Rocket Lab Venus Mission
« Reply #8 on: 07/30/2020 03:28 am »
PeterJBeck
Still early days. The point of the probe is to look for possible life in Venus' atmosphere. Current probe candidates are about 25 kg and have about 6 mins of time in the sweet spot. Photon will act as the relay back to Earth.

Given how early the planning for this mission is, I wonder how likely it is to actually launch.  As we all know, a lot of plans are announced for space projects that don't end up happening.

There's been speculation about who will pay for this, but no announcement so far.  I think that's telling.  I think if financing was already secure it would have been announced.  There's nothing small space companies like to publicize more than funding.

If it is only about $20M.

There is James Cameron (part time NZ resident) who could financed such a project. His involvement should result in some cool footage during the descend of the dropsonde. Cameron have to find something more challenging to do than visiting the bottom of the Mariana Trench.


Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: Rocket Lab Venus Mission
« Reply #9 on: 07/30/2020 03:54 am »
PeterJBeck
Still early days. The point of the probe is to look for possible life in Venus' atmosphere. Current probe candidates are about 25 kg and have about 6 mins of time in the sweet spot. Photon will act as the relay back to Earth.

Given how early the planning for this mission is, I wonder how likely it is to actually launch.  As we all know, a lot of plans are announced for space projects that don't end up happening.

There's been speculation about who will pay for this, but no announcement so far.  I think that's telling.  I think if financing was already secure it would have been announced.  There's nothing small space companies like to publicize more than funding.

If it is only about $20M.

There is James Cameron (part time NZ resident) who could financed such a project. His involvement should result in some cool footage during the descend of the dropsonde. Cameron have to find something more challenging to do than visiting the bottom of the Mariana Trench.

I'm not saying it won't happen.  Just that we can't count on it happening.

Maybe Cameron will step up and pay for it.  Maybe he won't.

A lot of ambitious space projects have been stopped for want of less than $20 million.  Just look at the original X Prize or the Google Lunar X prize.  Both of those generated lots of interest, lots of novel ideas, and lots of hard work.  Some of them got significant amounts of money.  But only Space Ship One was able to get to the finish line for the original X Prize.  Nobody was able to get to the finish line for the Google Lunar X Prize.

If you assume Cameron is likely to pay $20 million for this without any actual evidence he's shown any interest, you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

Offline high road

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Re: Rocket Lab Venus Mission
« Reply #10 on: 07/30/2020 09:28 am »
PeterJBeck
Still early days. The point of the probe is to look for possible life in Venus' atmosphere. Current probe candidates are about 25 kg and have about 6 mins of time in the sweet spot. Photon will act as the relay back to Earth.

Given how early the planning for this mission is, I wonder how likely it is to actually launch.  As we all know, a lot of plans are announced for space projects that don't end up happening.

There's been speculation about who will pay for this, but no announcement so far.  I think that's telling.  I think if financing was already secure it would have been announced.  There's nothing small space companies like to publicize more than funding.

If it is only about $20M.

There is James Cameron (part time NZ resident) who could financed such a project. His involvement should result in some cool footage during the descend of the dropsonde. Cameron have to find something more challenging to do than visiting the bottom of the Mariana Trench.

I'm not saying it won't happen.  Just that we can't count on it happening.

Maybe Cameron will step up and pay for it.  Maybe he won't.

A lot of ambitious space projects have been stopped for want of less than $20 million.  Just look at the original X Prize or the Google Lunar X prize.  Both of those generated lots of interest, lots of novel ideas, and lots of hard work.  Some of them got significant amounts of money.  But only Space Ship One was able to get to the finish line for the original X Prize.  Nobody was able to get to the finish line for the Google Lunar X Prize.

If you assume Cameron is likely to pay $20 million for this without any actual evidence he's shown any interest, you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

Might just be RL trying to sell their services to space organisations that up to now did not have the money for interplanetary missions, with no specific customer just yet.

But where investing in a group who entered the X-prizes only gave you a chance to win the X-prize money and a hypothetical chance to turn the idea into a profitable activity with a lot of extra investments, this 20 million would give you a ride to Venus on a vehicle that has already proven itself in Earth orbit, but with no way to reap any financial benefits. Apples and oranges. People who gave money to  X-Prize teams are unlikely to be the same people funding scientific missions.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Rocket Lab Venus Mission
« Reply #11 on: 07/30/2020 10:46 am »

Offline Nevyn72

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Re: Rocket Lab Venus Mission
« Reply #12 on: 07/30/2020 11:19 am »

Offline libra

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Re: Rocket Lab Venus Mission
« Reply #13 on: 07/30/2020 12:05 pm »
Rocket Lab, NZ and Venus. That's a very unexpected combination, to say the least !

I agree it may never happen. Cautiousness about that kind of plans, seems reseasonable.

Still, the project is significative of new capabilities brought by these new launchers and cubesat tech.

Repeat more carefully:

New Zealand plans cubesat to Venus on a Rocket Lab launch vehicle.

Just thinking about it, it is pretty awesome.  8)

Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: Rocket Lab Venus Mission
« Reply #14 on: 07/30/2020 04:28 pm »
May actuall be NZ Space Agency paying for it.

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42327.msg2113043.msg#2113043

Are you basing that on that tweet from the NZ Space Agency?  Because I think the tweet is actually pretty strong evidence that the NZ Space Agency is not paying for it.  The tweet says,

Quote
Peter Beck @RocketLab has Venus in his sights planning a NZ mission there in 2023.

This is the NZ Space Agency using the third person and talking about what Peter Back and Rocket Lab are planning.  If the NZ Space Agency is paying for it, why aren't they saying "we" or hinting at their involvement in any way?  If the NZ Space Agency were paying, wouldn't they want to take some credit?

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Rocket Lab Venus Mission
« Reply #15 on: 07/30/2020 06:02 pm »
Tweet isn't clear who is paying for it, not sure if NZ referemce is to launch site or who is paying for mission.


Online jamesh9000

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Re: Rocket Lab Venus Mission
« Reply #16 on: 07/31/2020 03:00 am »
As an NZ taxpayer, I'd be quite happy for the NZ govt to pay for this. I think as an advertisement of the country and its capabilities, sending an interplanetary space probe to Venus is a bold statement, since its only ever been achieved by great world powers. I think it would result in far more than $20M being invested here.

Of course, some people would complain that we have more pressing matters to spend $20M on, but I feel this could be managed politically, with the long term benefits to the country being kept front and certain. And anyway, its good practice to be held to account for public spending and being able to justify what it's spent on.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Rocket Lab Venus Mission
« Reply #17 on: 08/23/2020 05:20 pm »
https://www.space.com/rocket-lab-private-venus-mission-2023.html

"The Venus mission won't be Rocket Lab's first foray beyond Earth orbit, if all goes according to plan. The company recently scored a contract to fly a NASA satellite to the moon in early 2021 using Electron and Photon.
Beck hopes the duo can do a fair bit of needle-moving in the coming years, providing dedicated, low-cost rides to a variety of distant destinations.
"Generally, if you want to do a science mission to the moon, you start writing a check at $50-$100 million," he said. But with Photon coming online, "for $10-20 million, you can actually do some really good science, interplanetary and lunar. That's what excites me."


He says it, so it must be true.

Offline vjkane

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Re: Rocket Lab Venus Mission
« Reply #18 on: 08/23/2020 09:12 pm »
"Generally, if you want to do a science mission to the moon, you start writing a check at $50-$100 million," he said. But with Photon coming online, "for $10-20 million, you can actually do some really good science, interplanetary and lunar. That's what excites me."

He says it, so it must be true.
I don't doubt that good science could be done $10-20M.  Just fly an iPhone camera past a random near-Earth asteroid, return the data, and you do really good science.

The news article was vague and I have other things to do with 75 minutes than listen to the investor briefing.  However, it suggests a probe to enter the atmosphere, and that is a lot more than $10-20M.  If he had announced a cubesat mission with a UV spectrometer (basically the CUVE mission analysis that was funded by NASA) to examine the UV absorber, that would seem like a credible first commercial try.  It would be a similar scale of mission to the ESCAPE Mars smallsats that NASA's Heliospheric division is funding.  I will note that NASA has suggested that the three SIMPLEx missions (ESCAPE is one) are likely to cost 2-3X the price range suggested above.

Offline sanman

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Re: Rocket Lab Venus Mission
« Reply #19 on: 09/01/2020 08:17 am »
This has been hinted at for a while, with Beck mentioning the planet as a favourite of his and such subtle hints as
Quote
Hypercurie is our latest spacecraft engine... and It’s perfect to get payloads to the moon and..........Venus!
https://twitter.com/Peter_J_Beck/status/1283635288133103616?s=20


What is the difference between the HyperCurie thruster and the Curie thruster, other than size?
« Last Edit: 09/01/2020 03:08 pm by sanman »

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