Atlas V N22 - Starliner CFT (Crewed) - Canaveral SLC-41 - NET April 2023

[Comga]

In case anyone's aware, the CFT will be the first manned mission to be launched atop the Atlas V since the Faith 7 mission in May 1963. As pointed out elsewhere in this forum, since the Atlas V will launch all operational manned Starliner missions, it is intended to carry out the last manned launches involving an SLV that carries the name of a Cold War ICBM, since the Gemini missions were launched atop the Titan ICBM.

(My bold) Anyone who has concluded this must think that Starliner-6 will be the last Starliner flight, that there will never be a Starliner flight except the CFT and the six operational CCP missions. So no non-NASA flights and no flights except to ISS. This is not yet known.

Pick, pick, pick
1) Vahe probably meant that all currently contracted Starliner flights will launch atop the Atlas V.
2) While it's hard to make predictions, especially about the future, it's pretty much headed that way, illustrations not withstanding.

The fundamental basis of the post is incorrect, but minimizing expectations for Starliner is what concerns you?

[Jim]

I wanted to emphasize that the CFT will be the first manned mission to be launched atop an SLV bearing the Atlas name since 1963, given the Atlas V was designed from the outset to launch only unmanned spacecraft. And yes, the Atlas V is unrelated to the Atlas ICBM used for orbital Mercury missions and was designed as a replacement for the Atlas II (the Atlas III also used a brand-new first stage in sharp contrast to the Atlas II, but had a short operational career, with just six launches performed) under the Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle program.

No, it was a replacement for the Atlas III,

 was designed from the outset to launch only unmanned spacecraft.

Like most others

[LouScheffer]

was designed from the outset to launch only unmanned spacecraft.

Like most others

I think designing for un-crewed missions is only partially true.  Almost every report of development I've seen in the last decade says "We are designing the rocket to not preclude a crewed version later."  So stuff that would be very hard to change later (such as structural margins) is designed to crewed specification, even if not strictly needed for uncrewed launches.  But other parts that can be added later are indeed omitted (such as the circuits to provide advanced notice of impending doom so the capsule can escape). 

As Tory Bruno said, "Vulcan is being designed with human rating in mind, but that will be up to our customer."

[DanClemmensen]

In case anyone's aware, the CFT will be the first manned mission to be launched atop the Atlas V since the Faith 7 mission in May 1963. As pointed out elsewhere in this forum, since the Atlas V will launch all operational manned Starliner missions, it is intended to carry out the last manned launches involving an SLV that carries the name of a Cold War ICBM, since the Gemini missions were launched atop the Titan ICBM.

(My bold) Anyone who has concluded this must think that Starliner-6 will be the last Starliner flight, that there will never be a Starliner flight except the CFT and the six operational CCP missions. So no non-NASA flights and no flights except to ISS. This is not yet known.

Pick, pick, pick
1) Vahe probably meant that all currently contracted Starliner flights will launch atop the Atlas V.
2) While it's hard to make predictions, especially about the future, it's pretty much headed that way, illustrations not withstanding.

The fundamental basis of the post is incorrect, but minimizing expectations for Starliner is what concerns you?

A lot of us, including me, think Starliner will only fly another seven times at most. That does not make it true, so I think we need to continue to make sure that its a prediction and not Boeing's stated plan.

[Star One]

In case anyone's aware, the CFT will be the first manned mission to be launched atop the Atlas V since the Faith 7 mission in May 1963. As pointed out elsewhere in this forum, since the Atlas V will launch all operational manned Starliner missions, it is intended to carry out the last manned launches involving an SLV that carries the name of a Cold War ICBM, since the Gemini missions were launched atop the Titan ICBM.

(My bold) Anyone who has concluded this must think that Starliner-6 will be the last Starliner flight, that there will never be a Starliner flight except the CFT and the six operational CCP missions. So no non-NASA flights and no flights except to ISS. This is not yet known.

Pick, pick, pick
1) Vahe probably meant that all currently contracted Starliner flights will launch atop the Atlas V.
2) While it's hard to make predictions, especially about the future, it's pretty much headed that way, illustrations not withstanding.

The fundamental basis of the post is incorrect, but minimizing expectations for Starliner is what concerns you?

A lot of us, including me, think Starliner will only fly another seven times at most. That does not make it true, so I think we need to continue to make sure that its a prediction and not Boeing's stated plan.

And on what basis do you think it will only fly another seven times, show your working as they say.

[whitelancer64]

In case anyone's aware, the CFT will be the first manned mission to be launched atop the Atlas V since the Faith 7 mission in May 1963. As pointed out elsewhere in this forum, since the Atlas V will launch all operational manned Starliner missions, it is intended to carry out the last manned launches involving an SLV that carries the name of a Cold War ICBM, since the Gemini missions were launched atop the Titan ICBM.

(My bold) Anyone who has concluded this must think that Starliner-6 will be the last Starliner flight, that there will never be a Starliner flight except the CFT and the six operational CCP missions. So no non-NASA flights and no flights except to ISS. This is not yet known.

Pick, pick, pick
1) Vahe probably meant that all currently contracted Starliner flights will launch atop the Atlas V.
2) While it's hard to make predictions, especially about the future, it's pretty much headed that way, illustrations not withstanding.

The fundamental basis of the post is incorrect, but minimizing expectations for Starliner is what concerns you?

A lot of us, including me, think Starliner will only fly another seven times at most. That does not make it true, so I think we need to continue to make sure that its a prediction and not Boeing's stated plan.

And on what basis do you think it will only fly another seven times, show your working as they say.

Presumably, the lack of any further contracted flights.

[DanClemmensen]

A lot of us, including me, think Starliner will only fly another seven times at most. That does not make it true, so I think we need to continue to make sure that its a prediction and not Boeing's stated plan.

And on what basis do you think it will only fly another seven times, show your working as they say.

I responded in a new thread since this is off-topic here. See:
    https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=56680.0

[Jim]

I think designing for un-crewed missions is only partially true.  Almost every report of development I've seen in the last decade says "We are designing the rocket to not preclude a crewed version later."  So stuff that would be very hard to change later (such as structural margins) is designed to crewed specification, even if not strictly needed for uncrewed launches.  But other parts that can be added later are indeed omitted (such as the circuits to provide advanced notice of impending doom so the capsule can escape). 

Not really.  Atlas V didn't require any structural changes.  Delta IV would not have either.

[edkyle99]

I think designing for un-crewed missions is only partially true.  Almost every report of development I've seen in the last decade says "We are designing the rocket to not preclude a crewed version later."  So stuff that would be very hard to change later (such as structural margins) is designed to crewed specification, even if not strictly needed for uncrewed launches.  But other parts that can be added later are indeed omitted (such as the circuits to provide advanced notice of impending doom so the capsule can escape). 

Not really.  Atlas V didn't require any structural changes.  Delta IV would not have either.

A second RL10 engine was required for the crewed missions, but Lockheed Martin/ULA had I think designed in that upgrade from the outset.

 - Ed Kyle

[FutureSpaceTourist]

https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1555238391498919938

NASA's Steve Stich said he expects the Starliner Crew Flight Test to slip into early 2023. "Quite a bit of work to go, but it's progressing well," he said.

[Vahe231991]

https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1555238391498919938

NASA's Steve Stich said he expects the Starliner Crew Flight Test to slip into early 2023. "Quite a bit of work to go, but it's progressing well," he said.

An internal NASA schedule lists a target launch date December 8, 2022, for the CFT mission. I hope that Steve Stich is somewhat teasing.

[zubenelgenubi]

An internal NASA schedule lists a target launch date December 8, 2022, for the CFT mission. I hope that Steve Stich is somewhat teasing.

Article that you quote is already old news.  Steve Stich is not teasing.

[DanClemmensen]

An internal NASA schedule lists a target launch date December 8, 2022, for the CFT mission. I hope that Steve Stich is somewhat teasing.

Article that you quote is already old news.  Steve Stich is not teasing.

The quoted Ars Technica article was written by Eric Berger, who later wrote the Tweet. I take the Tweet as an update on the article.

[FutureSpaceTourist]

https://twitter.com/nasaspaceflight/status/1557810540101107715

NASA release:

"NASA and Boeing teleconference on Thursday, to provide an update on the agency’s Boeing Crew Flight Test (CFT) to the International Space Station – the first flight with astronauts on the company’s CST-100 Starliner spacecraft."

Edit to add:

https://twitter.com/commercial_crew/status/1557830459790426113

[email protected] and @BoeingSpace will host a media teleconference at 1pm EDT Thursday, Aug. 25, to provide an update on the agency’s Boeing Crew Flight Test - the first flight with astronauts on the company’s CST-100 Starliner spacecraft - to the @Space_Station: go.nasa.gov/3AdVeXY

[gongora]

NET February
Butch & Sunni
about 8 days at ISS

[zubenelgenubi]

CFT launch to ISS:

From today's [Aug 25] CFT briefing:

4:41:

Currently we are targeting a launch date as early as February of 2023.  It's a busy time frame around there, and so early February is likely the best window.

6:21:

As you know, long term, we're planning a Starliner visit once a year.  Steve mentioned Suni [Sunita Williams] and Butch [Barry Wilmore].  We expect this mission to be docked about eight days.  We're still working the details, but think approximately eight days or so.  Butch and Suni, in addition to the Starliner activities, we're going to have them do ISS activities, whether it be research utilization and commercialization work or technology delopment, just like we did with Bob and Doug when they were on their SpaceX test mission.

[Rondaz]

NASA, Boeing Prepare for Crew Flight Test

Danielle Sempsrott Posted on August 26, 2022

NASA and Boeing are targeting an early February 2023 launch for the first CST-100 Starliner flight with astronauts to the International Space Station.

Preparations are underway for the launch of NASA’s Boeing Crew Flight Test (CFT) as teams work to ready the hardware, crew, and mission support teams for flight as part of NASA’s Commercial Crew Program.

Two NASA astronaut test pilots, Barry “Butch” Wilmore and Suni Williams, will fly on CFT to the space station, where they will live and work for approximately eight days. Mission and crew support teams and the CFT astronauts are continuing with preparations and training. NASA and Boeing teams recently conducted an integrated crew exercise to rehearse the prelaunch timeline and responses to various launch event scenarios. In the coming weeks, Wilmore and Williams will don their spacesuits and climb aboard their crew module to check out the vehicle systems and interfaces that support their health and safety.

Refurbishment of the CFT crew module following the first Orbital Flight Test in December 2019 is progressing. Its external shell and thermal protection system will be completed next, followed by preflight checks to finalize the crew module build and test phase. Production of a new service module also is progressing, with teams wrapping up acceptance testing of the thermal control system, installing the pressurant system and integrating the propulsion system. This service module incorporates the same valve mitigations as the OFT-2 spacecraft. That purge system performed as needed during OFT-2 and a similar system has been implemented into the service module for CFT as a preventative measure. Once both the crew module and service module are completed, the two will be mated for flight.

“The Starliner team has done an excellent job throughout the refurbishment process of incorporating all the learning from our uncrewed orbital test flight,” said Steve Stich, manager, NASA’s Commercial Crew Program. “We expect to do even more learning on our next flight with astronauts to set Starliner up for certification and future operational missions.”

For the crewed flight, Boeing’s Starliner will launch on a United Launch Alliance Atlas V rocket from Space Launch Complex-41 at Cape Canaveral Space Force Station in Florida.

https://blogs.nasa.gov/commercialcrew/2022/08/26/nasa-boeing-prepare-for-crew-flight-test/

[FutureSpaceTourist]

https://twitter.com/boeingspace/status/1579547564587745294

Together with @SpaceFoundation, we're launching student artwork into space aboard #Starliner's Crew Flight Test! 🎨🚀

“Art in the Stars” will transport digital submissions "out of this world" to the @Space_Station.

Submit your work here: https://artshowcase.spacefoundation.org/

[FutureSpaceTourist]

twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1587137990832291844

NASA’s Phil McAlister says an updated date for the crewed flight test of Boeing’s CST-100 Starliner could be released as soon as this week. Still closing out a number of in-flight anomalies during the uncrewed OFT-2 test.

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1587140328150155267

Asked about unresolved issues from OFT-2, McAlister says “nothing major” but brings up topics such as parachutes and software. Nothing, he said, that would preclude a crewed test flight “next year.” [CFT is currently scheduled for no earlier than February.]

https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1587138603573977090

I've heard the Crew Flight Test is definitely not happening in February, or probably even March, but so far NASA has not said anything on the record.

[FutureSpaceTourist]

https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1588185919181520896

NASA and Boeing now are targeting April 2023 for the agency’s Crew Flight Test, the first flight with astronauts on Starliner. The date adjustment deconflicts visiting spacecraft traffic at the space station as NASA and Boeing work together to achieve flight readiness.