Author Topic: SpaceX F9 : USA 328-331 / Globalstar FM15 : SLC-40 : 19 June 2022 (04:27 UTC)  (Read 74907 times)

Offline Orbiter

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There was a dogleg. You can see it in the streak shots.

So the Mission Control Audio webcast is wrong? I can see an initial roll to the azimuth, but no actual dogleg (a sharp yaw).

I have photographed dozens of streak shots. None of them have that little kink towards the end of the ascent unless there's a dogleg. There is a yaw right at the end of first stage ascent that I have never seen before.

https://twitter.com/SLDelta45/status/1538644018535481347/photo/1
« Last Edit: 06/21/2022 03:21 am by Orbiter »
Astronomer & launch photographer

Offline OneSpeed

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I have photographed dozens of streak shots. None of them have that little kink towards the end of the ascent unless there's a dogleg. There is a yaw right at the end of first stage ascent that I have never seen before.

Sure, but how many launches have you photographed that both landed on an ASDS, and performed direct injection to a 533 x 533km orbit? This launch had an unusually high amount of loft. Perhaps what you are seeing is a pitch up after the gravity turn is complete?

Offline russianhalo117

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The theory that they're some sort of prototype Starlink 2.0 satellites that they're launching without anyone knowing falls itself apart when you consider the fact that they'd have to be approved by the FCC. If there were any Starlinks in this flight of any kind they would have to be of the older generation and/or be for a government agency which wouldn't necessarily need FCC approval. That or whoever proposes that theory has to include SpaceX comitting an illegal action that could entail the removal of their rights to operate the Starlink constellation.

Not necessarily, SpaceX didn't file anything when they started flying v1.5, what can be flown under their existing Gen1 license is not clearly defined. Should be obvious that if they did fly Gen2 prototype, it'll still be using the same spectrum as Gen1, this would eliminate most of the concerns from FCC. The altitude and inclination of USA 320 is pretty close to one of the Gen1 orbits as well (97.5 degrees vs 97.6 degrees, 540km vs 560km)

Or they could sidestep FCC by asking their DoD customer such as SDA to classify the launch as part of the DoD program. For example it's quite possible that they're using Starlink v2 bus for their SDA missile warning satellites, so they could ask SDA to authorize a test launch or two of this bus as part of the SDA constellation program. This way SDA gets the peace of mind that their missile warning satellite would actually work once launched, and SpaceX gets to test Starlink v2 bus early, win-win.

SpaceX did file an updated constellation planning to add v1.5 satellites and needed special permission to launch the laser link satellites on Transporter-1 for the polar shells.

SpaceX filed an updated constellation plan so that they can move all the satellites from 1200km to 550km, in the same filing they added polar shells, this is a change of all the shells of the constellation, it's not specific to a satellite design. The designation "v1.0" or "v1.5" did not appear in this filing, what FCC cares most is the orbit and spectrum, not some satellite design.

FCC didn't approve this new constellation plan until April 2021, so when SpaceX wants to fly some Starlink to polar orbit on Transporter-1 in Jan 2021, they're flying to an orbit not approved by FCC yet, this is why they need to ask special permission. It has nothing to do with the fact that the satellites flown to polar orbits are v1.5, they could very well fly v1.0 on Transporter-1 and they'd still need to ask for permission. In fact we don't know that those flown on Transporter-1 are v1.5's, they're likely prototypes since they were all deorbited in less than a year.

I believe the first official v1.5 launch is Group 2-1 on September 13, 2021, with Elon Musk's confirmation: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1436541063406264320
Since they are government sats NTIA is primary for spectrum and filings with NTIA and FCC having monthly meetings for coordination of spectrum and orbits of federal users.

https://ntia.gov/
https://ntia.gov/office/OSM
« Last Edit: 06/21/2022 04:05 am by russianhalo117 »

Offline alugobi

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How do you know that those four undiscussed sats are for the government?

Offline russianhalo117

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How do you know that those four undiscussed sats are for the government?
Because sats with the USA designation have filed spectrum use with NTIA. I use communications equipment that uses NTIA allocated spectrum from government terrestrial, airborne and spaceborne assets as part of one of the places that I work. I also have family and friends on both sides that work or have formerly worked at NTIA and for various USA Sat operators in various roles.
NTIA OSM is the liason to FCC which directs itt prevent domestic and international assignment of government allocated spectrum. There amhave been several examples of GEO Commsat operators launching sats only for them to find out that they are operating in reserved or allocated NATO and NTIA spectrum.

Best example I can recall was SkyTerra 1, 2 (MSV 1, 2, SA) which were blocked by NTIA for intending to use frequency range that could cause interference to those allocated to NAVSTAR/GPS et al and another similar instance triggered the dead cat bounce and prolonged spiral of SPRINT.
« Last Edit: 06/21/2022 04:45 am by russianhalo117 »

Offline Citabria

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I have photographed dozens of streak shots. None of them have that little kink towards the end of the ascent unless there's a dogleg. There is a yaw right at the end of first stage ascent that I have never seen before.

Sure, but how many launches have you photographed that both landed on an ASDS, and performed direct injection to a 533 x 533km orbit? This launch had an unusually high amount of loft. Perhaps what you are seeing is a pitch up after the gravity turn is complete?

Agreed. The on-board shows the plume bending to upper left, toward the horizon. This is commonly visible in other launches with a pitch up, or positive angle of attack. When the on-board remains visible (not shown this time), you can see the plume straighten out just before MECO, because they want zero angle of attack for staging.
« Last Edit: 06/21/2022 01:45 pm by Citabria »

Offline Orbiter

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I have photographed dozens of streak shots. None of them have that little kink towards the end of the ascent unless there's a dogleg. There is a yaw right at the end of first stage ascent that I have never seen before.

Sure, but how many launches have you photographed that both landed on an ASDS, and performed direct injection to a 533 x 533km orbit? This launch had an unusually high amount of loft. Perhaps what you are seeing is a pitch up after the gravity turn is complete?

I will concede that possibility. It could be a pitch up that looks like a yaw due to the fact the vehicle is moving both away & parallel to the Earth.
Astronomer & launch photographer

Offline TimTri

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C. Basso on the SeeSat-L mailing list was able to observe the four classified payloads (as well as a fifth object, likely debris from the deployment mechanism) and provide accurate TLEs for all of them. There is a lot of advanced stuff in his post, but the TLEs at the very bottom might be of interest to those who know how to use them.

Like to the mailing list archive:
http://www.satobs.org/seesat/Jun-2022/0090.html

TLEs:

1 99654U 22671E   22171.97791079  .00000000  00000-0  50000-4 0    05
2 99654  52.9957 223.8538 0001000   0.0000  63.4553 15.11237881    07
# 20220620.98-20220620.98, 3 measurements, 0.010 deg rms
1 99655U 22671F   22171.97796925  .00000000  00000-0  50000-4 0    01
2 99655  52.9814 223.8744 0001000   0.0000  63.7125 15.10737863    01
# 20220620.98-20220620.98, 3 measurements, 0.008 deg rms
1 99656U 22671G   22171.97796925  .00000000  00000-0  50000-4 0    02
2 99656  53.0218 223.9444 0001000   0.0000  63.6104 15.10953506    00
# 20220620.98-20220620.98, 3 measurements, 0.009 deg rms
1 99657U 22671H   22171.97796925  .00000000  00000-0  50000-4 0    03
2 99657  52.8013 223.3984 0001000   0.0000  63.8870 15.10783344    07
# 20220620.98-20220620.98, 3 measurements, 0.005 deg rms
1 99658U 22671J   22171.97805575  .00000000  00000-0  50000-4 0    06
2 99658  52.9706 223.7012 0001000   0.0000  63.7275 15.12075317    08
# 20220620.98-20220620.98, 2 measurements, 0.000 deg rms

These 5 objects were about 5 minutes early compared to Marco's 70001
search elset. The first 4 were equally spaced on the sky and of equal
brightness, with the latter trailing and being brighter. These must be
the covert payloads (USA 328-311, 52889-52892/22064B-E) launched with
the GLOBALSTAR FM15 satellite, as well as the reported piece of Falcon
9 debris (52893/22064F). Hopefully these search orbits will be
sufficient to observe these satellites again over the next few days.
« Last Edit: 06/21/2022 02:14 pm by TimTri »

Offline Star One

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« Last Edit: 06/21/2022 04:31 pm by Star One »

Offline Rondaz

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Midday arrivals:

✔ B1060 (SL 4-19) - first booster to fly 13 times!

✔ 4 fairing halves (One not looking too great and not covered with a tarp)

Just waiting for B1061 to return from Globalstar in a few days time.

https://twitter.com/SpaceOffshore/status/1539287516511186947

Offline Rondaz

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This time, Bob returned with 3 intact fairings from Globalstar and Starlink 4-19, while Doug towing ASOG had the other faring tucked away in the back!

https://twitter.com/JerryPikePhoto/status/1539288201289940992

Offline Rondaz

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Some bonus footage of the Canaveral pilot boarding Bob prior to sailing into the port..

https://twitter.com/JerryPikePhoto/status/1539300321029148675

Offline TimTri

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Offline Reynold

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There is speculation in this article that the four satellites might be missile warning ones SpaceX was contracted to build for the DoD back in 2020.  If so, they would be a bit ahead of schedule, these were scheduled to launch in late 2022 which, with any other company, would mean early 2023.  :)

https://spaceexplored.com/2022/06/20/spacex-launched-four-classified-payloads-on-globalstar-mission-according-to-tracking-data/

Offline Rondaz

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Just Read the Instructions droneship and B1061 (towed by Finn Falgout) should arrive at Port Canaveral on June 22nd, following the Globalstar launch.

Arrival currently listed as mid-afternoon but subject to change.

https://twitter.com/SpaceOffshore/status/1539388377023365122

Offline Rondaz

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Strange things in the sky..

Almost two hours after launch on June 19th, the upper stage of the @SpaceX #Falcon9 deployed the Globalstar satellite; the smoke we see was the "puff" of separation. It happened so far above Earth, more than 700 miles high. 1/

https://twitter.com/_AstroErika/status/1538790181087719424

Offline Star One

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There is speculation in this article that the four satellites might be missile warning ones SpaceX was contracted to build for the DoD back in 2020.  If so, they would be a bit ahead of schedule, these were scheduled to launch in late 2022 which, with any other company, would mean early 2023.  :)

https://spaceexplored.com/2022/06/20/spacex-launched-four-classified-payloads-on-globalstar-mission-according-to-tracking-data/
A respected poster up thread has already stated they are not SDA satellites.

Offline edzieba

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They're the wrong size (SpaceX's Tracking Layer birds are much larger than stock Starlinks), going to the wrong orbit (should be 950km polar), from the wrong coast, to be the SDA satellites. Those already have a contract to launch from Vandenberg later this year, and are a a white project rather than black.

Offline Rondaz

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Offline Jim

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There is speculation in this article that the four satellites might be missile warning ones SpaceX was contracted to build for the DoD back in 2020.  If so, they would be a bit ahead of schedule, these were scheduled to launch in late 2022 which, with any other company, would mean early 2023.  :)


no,  SpaceX has just as many delays in new projects.

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