Author Topic: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013  (Read 34063 times)

Offline Chris Bergin

MEDIA ADVISORY: M13-057

NASA ADMINISTRATOR DISCUSSES 2014 FISCAL YEAR BUDGET PROPOSAL

WASHINGTON -- NASA Administrator Charles Bolden will brief reporters
about the agency's fiscal year 2014 budget proposal at 3 p.m. EDT on
Wednesday, April 10, during a media teleconference. NASA Chief
Financial Officer Elizabeth Robinson will join the administrator.

Audio and visuals from the media teleconference conference will be
carried live on NASA's Internet homepage and on Ustream.

Media representatives who want to participate in the teleconference
should contact Sonja Alexander in the NASA Headquarters newsroom at
202-358-1761 or [email protected] by 2 p.m. Wednesday.

To listen to the media briefing online or hear the teleconference with
visuals on Ustream, visit:

http://www.nasa.gov/newsaudio

NASA's fiscal year 2014 budget proposal and supporting material will
be posted online at 1 p.m. Wednesday at:

http://www.nasa.gov/budget


-end-
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #1 on: 04/08/2013 09:33 pm »
MEDIA ADVISORY: M07-13

NASA KENNEDY CENTER DIRECTOR MEDIA TELECONFERENCE APRIL 10

CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. -- Bob Cabana, center director for NASA's Kennedy
Space Center, will hold a teleconference with media at 4:30 p.m. EDT
on Wednesday, April 10.

Cabana will discuss the latest activities at Kennedy, including NASA's
fiscal year 2014 budget. The briefing will not be carried on NASA
Television.
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #2 on: 04/09/2013 01:39 pm »
This thread will be opened just ahead of the presser.
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #3 on: 04/10/2013 02:55 pm »
Thread open.

The style of this thread is an update thread, so stick to that and we can use it as a discussion thread after the event.

However, I encourage everyone to chip in, as there's going to be personal bias at work, where something may be seen as great by one person, or bad by another, so if we have a spread of people posting we'll get some sort of balance.
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline deltaV

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2159
  • Change in velocity
  • Liked: 621
  • Likes Given: 2132
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #4 on: 04/10/2013 03:32 pm »
From http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2014/assets/nasa.pdf:

Quote
Provides $17.7 billion in discretionary funding for the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA), a decrease of 0.3 percent, or about $50 million, below the 2012 enacted level.

The details of the NASA budget don't seem to be available yet.

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17266
  • Liked: 7123
  • Likes Given: 3064
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #5 on: 04/10/2013 03:47 pm »
Here is the Appendix related to NASA. It has some numbers but no breakdown of the amounts:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2014/assets/nsa.pdf
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/overview

The breakdown of the amounts should be available from NASA before 3 pm (local time).
http://www.nasa.gov/news/budget/
« Last Edit: 04/10/2013 04:11 pm by yg1968 »

Offline Longhorn John

  • Regular
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1570
  • Liked: 60
  • Likes Given: 130
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #6 on: 04/10/2013 04:16 pm »
Ok, I'll ask the dumb question.

"Provides $17.7 billion in discretionary funding for the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA), a decrease of 0.3 percent, or about $50 million, below the 2012 enacted level."

That's all good news, right? Where's the panic about NASA getting cut from the Sequester etc?

Offline Go4TLI

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 816
  • Liked: 96
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #7 on: 04/10/2013 04:26 pm »
Ok, I'll ask the dumb question.

"Provides $17.7 billion in discretionary funding for the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA), a decrease of 0.3 percent, or about $50 million, below the 2012 enacted level."

That's all good news, right? Where's the panic about NASA getting cut from the Sequester etc?

This budget *proposal* is DOA, just like every other budget submitted by this administration even when the Democrats were in control of both houses.  So it means nothing. 

Offline Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 39270
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 25240
  • Likes Given: 12115
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #8 on: 04/10/2013 04:45 pm »
Ok, I'll ask the dumb question.

"Provides $17.7 billion in discretionary funding for the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA), a decrease of 0.3 percent, or about $50 million, below the 2012 enacted level."

That's all good news, right? Where's the panic about NASA getting cut from the Sequester etc?
I don't count that part as good news. A reduction sucks, even if it's smaller than it could be.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Prober

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10348
  • Save the spin....I'm keeping you honest!
  • Nevada
  • Liked: 721
  • Likes Given: 729
2017 - Everything Old is New Again.
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant..." --Isoroku Yamamoto

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #10 on: 04/10/2013 05:14 pm »
RELEASE: 13-104

NASA ADMINISTRATOR BOLDEN'S STATEMENT ON THE NASA FY 2014 BUDGET REQUEST

WASHINGTON -- The following statement is from NASA Administrator
Charles Bolden on the administration's budget request for the 2014
fiscal year:

"Today, we unveil President Obama's Fiscal Year 2014 budget request
for NASA -- a $17.7 billion investment in our nation's future. Our
budget ensures the United States will remain the world's leader in
space exploration and scientific discovery for years to come, while
making critical advances in aerospace and aeronautics to benefit the
American people.

"This budget focuses on an ambitious new mission to expand America's
capabilities in space, steady progress on new space and aeronautic
technologies, continued success with commercial space partnerships,
and far-reaching science programs to help us understand Earth and the
universe in which we live. It keeps us competitive, opens the door to
new destinations and vastly increases our knowledge.

"Our drive to make new discoveries and dare new frontiers continues to
improve life for people everywhere and raise the bar of human
achievement.

"The space station remains the centerpiece of our human exploration
efforts. It allows us to perform technology demonstrations and
scientific research only possible in microgravity, all while helping
to improve life here on Earth and plan for missions into deep space.

"With America now successfully resupplying the International Space
Station with cargo launched from the U.S. by American companies, this
budget ensures that our astronauts will also be launched from U.S.
soil on spacecraft built by American industry within the next four
years, ending our reliance on other nations and opening up new
commercial markets in space.

"We are developing a first-ever mission to identify, capture and
relocate an asteroid. This mission represents an unprecedented
technological feat that will lead to new scientific discoveries and
technological capabilities and help protect our home planet. This
asteroid initiative brings together the best of NASA's science,
technology and human exploration efforts to achieve the president's
goal of sending humans to an asteroid by 2025. We will use existing
capabilities such as the Orion crew capsule and Space Launch System
(SLS) rocket, and develop new technologies like solar electric
propulsion and laser communications -- all critical components of
deep space exploration.

"NASA's ground-breaking science missions are reaching farther into our
solar system, revealing unknown aspects of our universe and providing
critical data about our home planet and threats to it. Spacecraft are
speeding to Jupiter, Pluto and Ceres while satellites peer into other
galaxies, spot planets around other stars, and uncover the origins of
the universe. The budget funds our amazing fleet of scientific
spacecraft, including strong support for study of the Earth and its
response to natural or human-induced changes. And on the heels of the
most daring mission to Mars in history last year, provides funding to
launch another mission to the Red Planet. We also will continue our
steady progress to develop and conduct critical tests on the James
Webb Space Telescope, leading to its planned launch in 2018.

"While reaching for new heights in space, we're creating new jobs
right here on Earth -- especially for the next generation of American
scientists and engineers -- by supporting cutting edge aeronautics
and space technology innovations and research and development that
will help fuel the nation's economy for years to come."

The NASA budget and supporting information are available at:

http://www.nasa.gov/budget
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline SpacexULA

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1756
  • Liked: 53
  • Likes Given: 73
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #11 on: 04/10/2013 05:16 pm »
Ok, I'll ask the dumb question.

"Provides $17.7 billion in discretionary funding for the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA), a decrease of 0.3 percent, or about $50 million, below the 2012 enacted level."

That's all good news, right? Where's the panic about NASA getting cut from the Sequester etc?

President Obama has only vetoed 2 bills since coming into office, that's less than any President since James Garfield.  His budgets don't matter because if the Legislative branch puts something in front of him, he signs it.  FYI Franklin Roosevelt vetoed 635 bills.
No Bucks no Buck Rogers, but at least Flexible path gets you Twiki.

Offline Go4TLI

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 816
  • Liked: 96
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #12 on: 04/10/2013 05:17 pm »
RELEASE: 13-104

NASA ADMINISTRATOR BOLDEN'S STATEMENT ON THE NASA FY 2014 BUDGET REQUEST


As usual these releases have a lot of words without actually saying anything concrete. 

Offline Go4TLI

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 816
  • Liked: 96
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #13 on: 04/10/2013 05:18 pm »
Ok, I'll ask the dumb question.

"Provides $17.7 billion in discretionary funding for the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA), a decrease of 0.3 percent, or about $50 million, below the 2012 enacted level."

That's all good news, right? Where's the panic about NASA getting cut from the Sequester etc?

President Obama has only vetoed 2 bills since coming into office, that's less than any President since James Garfield.  His budgets don't matter because if the Legislative branch puts something in front of him, he signs it.  FYI Franklin Roosevelt vetoed 635 bills.

Acutally, much of it is outsourced to the AutoPen. 

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #14 on: 04/10/2013 05:18 pm »
RELEASE: 13-104

NASA ADMINISTRATOR BOLDEN'S STATEMENT ON THE NASA FY 2014 BUDGET REQUEST


As usual these releases have a lot of words without actually saying anything concrete. 

Yep. Hoping General Bolden will beef it up with the 3pm presser.
« Last Edit: 04/10/2013 05:19 pm by Chris Bergin »
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Space Pete

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #15 on: 04/10/2013 05:23 pm »
Budget seems okay to me (given the circumstances) - SLS/MPCV get what was agreed, commercial crew gets $800m, ISS gets fully funded, technology gets a good amount, JWST continues, and science doesn't get slashed again.

Probably the first NASA budget I've seen from the current administration that doesn't contain something unexpectedly controversial - so hopefully this one won't lead to another food fight with congress.

Kinda sobering to see "$0.0" budgeted for the Space Shuttle, though.
« Last Edit: 04/10/2013 05:30 pm by Space Pete »
NASASpaceflight ISS Editor

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #16 on: 04/10/2013 05:28 pm »
More on the EM-2 realignment - which I'm going to cover as the article for today's budget proposal:

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/asteroids/news/asteroid_initiative.html
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #17 on: 04/10/2013 05:35 pm »
OSTP ‏@whitehouseostp 10m
WATCH LIVE at 1:30pm EDT: Administration S&T officials discuss 2014 Federal R&D Budget: http://www.tvworldwide.com/events/aaas/130410/# … #STEM
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Space Pete

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #18 on: 04/10/2013 05:36 pm »
Some good concept images of the asteroid capture mission:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nasahqphoto/sets/72157633207165838/7

Note this image, which appears to show an EVA being conducted from Orion itself:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nasahqphoto/8635589238/in/set-72157633207165838
« Last Edit: 04/10/2013 05:39 pm by Space Pete »
NASASpaceflight ISS Editor

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #19 on: 04/10/2013 05:37 pm »
That link is working now and seems to be mainly an overall budget discussion....as opposed to NASA.
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #20 on: 04/10/2013 05:40 pm »
Ooh, NSF's getting billions - that'll pay for the servers. Oh, National Science Foundation... ;)
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #21 on: 04/10/2013 05:44 pm »
General Bolden is at this one...
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #22 on: 04/10/2013 05:46 pm »
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #23 on: 04/10/2013 05:49 pm »
National Security and Defense first up. General Bolden should be next.
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #24 on: 04/10/2013 05:57 pm »
Here we go with General Bolden.
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #25 on: 04/10/2013 05:57 pm »
Commercial crew "within the next four years".
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #26 on: 04/10/2013 05:59 pm »
develop the first ever mission to
identify, capture and relocate an asteroid. This mission raises
the bar for human exploration and discovery, helps us protect our
home planet and brings us closer to a human mission to an asteroid.
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #27 on: 04/10/2013 06:00 pm »
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #28 on: 04/10/2013 06:00 pm »
And that's the NASA part over.

One hour to the actual NASA presser on this all.
« Last Edit: 04/10/2013 06:02 pm by Chris Bergin »
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #29 on: 04/10/2013 06:14 pm »
(Link: http://www.commercialspaceflight.org/?p=4051)


Commercial Spaceflight Federation Welcomes New NASA Budget




Funding Will Help Close the Nation’s Gap in Human Space Launch Capability,

Support the Development of New Technologies, Including Suborbital Vehicles

 

Washington, D.C., April 10, 2013 -- Today, the Commercial Spaceflight Federation welcomed the strong continued support for commercial spaceflight in NASA’s proposed FY2014 budget.

 

Commercial Spaceflight Federation President Michael Lopez-Alegria said, “In the latest NASA budget, NASA and the Administration have continued to support a prompt return of American astronauts to the International Space Station on American vehicles. We are encouraged by the support shown for the Commercial Crew Program, which is now in a critical phase as complete crew transportation systems go through design, build and testing.”




“NASA also continues to look toward the future by prioritizing investments in technology through the Space Technology Mission Directorate,” said Commercial Spaceflight Federation Chairman Stuart Witt. “We have always had a world-class space program, and investments in technology, in partnership with industry, are needed to keep us there. Reusable suborbital spacecraft, in particular, are providing new capabilities that NASA is using to develop new technologies and to perform vital scientific research.”




Congress and the Administration have consistently identified commercial providers as a cost-effective, safe and reliable source for routine flights to low-Earth orbit, including transportation of cargo and NASA astronauts to and from the International Space Station. The third round of the Commercial Crew program was awarded in July 2012, with three complete system designs chosen for further development. Because these are competitively-awarded, fixed-price, milestone-based partnerships, NASA only pays for what is successfully developed.




The Commercial Crew program will enable American providers to free us from dependence on the Russian Soyuz for access to the International Space Station, a facility that American taxpayers have invested billions to build. NASA currently pays Russia more than $60 million per seat to access the Space Station, a price that is expected to rise above $70 million in the next few years.




NASA’s Space Technology Mission Directorate is revitalizing innovation at NASA, demonstrating technologies that will allow future manned and unmanned missions to reach new destinations. America has always been on the forefront of space and technology, but countries like China and India are rapidly expanding their programs and looking to challenge us. NASA’s Flight Opportunities Program is a key part of the Space Technology Mission Directorate, enabling the testing of new technologies and new modes of scientific research on commercial reusable suborbital vehicles.

Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17266
  • Liked: 7123
  • Likes Given: 3064

Online catdlr

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11172
  • Enthusiast since the Redstones
  • Marina del Rey, California, USA
  • Liked: 8802
  • Likes Given: 7821
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #31 on: 04/10/2013 06:45 pm »
NASA's Next Budget Advances US Leadership in Space and Science

Published on Apr 10, 2013
President Obama's Fiscal Year 2014 budget request for NASA is a $17.7 billion investment in our nation's future. NASA's budget ensures the United States will remain the world's leader in space exploration and scientific discovery for years to come, while making critical advances in aerospace and aeronautics to benefit the American people.

« Last Edit: 04/10/2013 06:47 pm by catdlr »
Tony De La Rosa, ...I'm no Feline Dealer!! I move mountains.  but I'm better known for "I think it's highly sexual." Japanese to English Translation.

Offline Chris Bergin

« Last Edit: 04/10/2013 06:49 pm by Chris Bergin »
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #33 on: 04/10/2013 06:59 pm »
Enjoying the music:

Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17266
  • Liked: 7123
  • Likes Given: 3064
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #34 on: 04/10/2013 07:02 pm »
http://www.nasa.gov/news/media/newsaudio/index.html - top of the hour.

Do you have a link? That one doesn't currently work.
« Last Edit: 04/10/2013 07:03 pm by yg1968 »

Offline Prober

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10348
  • Save the spin....I'm keeping you honest!
  • Nevada
  • Liked: 721
  • Likes Given: 729
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #35 on: 04/10/2013 07:04 pm »
nice graphic anyhow..
2017 - Everything Old is New Again.
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant..." --Isoroku Yamamoto

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17266
  • Liked: 7123
  • Likes Given: 3064

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #37 on: 04/10/2013 07:05 pm »
Slightly delayed, waiting for people.

Supermarket music version of "I believe I can fly" playing. Oh the irony ;)
« Last Edit: 04/10/2013 07:06 pm by Chris Bergin »
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline mlindner

  • Software Engineer
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2908
  • Space Capitalist
  • Silicon Valley, CA
  • Liked: 2204
  • Likes Given: 818
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #38 on: 04/10/2013 07:06 pm »
nice graphic anyhow..

There's two rocks in the way.
LEO is the ocean, not an island (let alone a continent). We create cruise liners to ride the oceans, not artificial islands in the middle of them. We need a physical place, which has physical resources, to make our future out there.

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #39 on: 04/10/2013 07:07 pm »
Starting.
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #40 on: 04/10/2013 07:08 pm »
Bolden reading out the press release posted earlier in the thread.
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #41 on: 04/10/2013 07:12 pm »
Terrible webcast, can only just make them out.
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline mlindner

  • Software Engineer
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2908
  • Space Capitalist
  • Silicon Valley, CA
  • Liked: 2204
  • Likes Given: 818
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #42 on: 04/10/2013 07:13 pm »
Someone keeps messing with the microphones...
LEO is the ocean, not an island (let alone a continent). We create cruise liners to ride the oceans, not artificial islands in the middle of them. We need a physical place, which has physical resources, to make our future out there.

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #43 on: 04/10/2013 07:13 pm »
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #44 on: 04/10/2013 07:13 pm »
Commercial Crew "by 2017" - but only with the full budget requests.
« Last Edit: 04/10/2013 07:14 pm by Chris Bergin »
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline mlindner

  • Software Engineer
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2908
  • Space Capitalist
  • Silicon Valley, CA
  • Liked: 2204
  • Likes Given: 818
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #45 on: 04/10/2013 07:14 pm »
Terrible webcast, can only just make them out.

The video is plenty clear. Click the ustream link to go to their main page to get a bigger version.
LEO is the ocean, not an island (let alone a continent). We create cruise liners to ride the oceans, not artificial islands in the middle of them. We need a physical place, which has physical resources, to make our future out there.

Offline Star One

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13997
  • UK
  • Liked: 3974
  • Likes Given: 220
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #46 on: 04/10/2013 07:14 pm »
Kinda sobering to see "$0.0" budgeted for the Space Shuttle, though.

Just out of interest why is the Shuttle still even listed?

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #47 on: 04/10/2013 07:14 pm »
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #48 on: 04/10/2013 07:15 pm »
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline mlindner

  • Software Engineer
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2908
  • Space Capitalist
  • Silicon Valley, CA
  • Liked: 2204
  • Likes Given: 818
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #49 on: 04/10/2013 07:15 pm »
Kinda sobering to see "$0.0" budgeted for the Space Shuttle, though.

Just out of interest why is the Shuttle still even listed?

Because previous budget was listed for 2012 as well. It had funding then.
LEO is the ocean, not an island (let alone a continent). We create cruise liners to ride the oceans, not artificial islands in the middle of them. We need a physical place, which has physical resources, to make our future out there.

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #50 on: 04/10/2013 07:16 pm »
"As early as 2021".
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #51 on: 04/10/2013 07:17 pm »
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #52 on: 04/10/2013 07:21 pm »
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #53 on: 04/10/2013 07:25 pm »
About $100m for the Asteroid mission.

NASA wants more Plutonium 238.
« Last Edit: 04/10/2013 07:27 pm by Chris Bergin »
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline psloss

  • Veteran armchair spectator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17980
  • Liked: 4047
  • Likes Given: 2089
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #54 on: 04/10/2013 07:28 pm »
Kinda sobering to see "$0.0" budgeted for the Space Shuttle, though.

Just out of interest why is the Shuttle still even listed?
Shuttle Transition and Retirement basically concluded at the end of the last quarter (end of March).  (In other words, it was still being funded during this fiscal year, FY 2013.)
« Last Edit: 04/10/2013 07:30 pm by psloss »

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #55 on: 04/10/2013 07:28 pm »
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #56 on: 04/10/2013 07:29 pm »
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #57 on: 04/10/2013 07:29 pm »
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #58 on: 04/10/2013 07:30 pm »
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #59 on: 04/10/2013 07:31 pm »
You really can see how thin NASA is spread with these slides.
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #60 on: 04/10/2013 07:31 pm »
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #61 on: 04/10/2013 07:32 pm »
More on the new mission.

Reviews start this Summer.
« Last Edit: 04/10/2013 07:33 pm by Chris Bergin »
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #62 on: 04/10/2013 07:33 pm »
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #63 on: 04/10/2013 07:34 pm »
Again stressing they need these numbers to enable 2017.
« Last Edit: 04/10/2013 07:36 pm by Chris Bergin »
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #64 on: 04/10/2013 07:36 pm »
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #65 on: 04/10/2013 07:37 pm »
And there's the big money:
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #66 on: 04/10/2013 07:38 pm »
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #67 on: 04/10/2013 07:39 pm »
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #68 on: 04/10/2013 07:41 pm »
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline mlindner

  • Software Engineer
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2908
  • Space Capitalist
  • Silicon Valley, CA
  • Liked: 2204
  • Likes Given: 818
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #69 on: 04/10/2013 07:42 pm »
I've thought it odd that paying for management costs as much as paying for SLS development.
LEO is the ocean, not an island (let alone a continent). We create cruise liners to ride the oceans, not artificial islands in the middle of them. We need a physical place, which has physical resources, to make our future out there.

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #70 on: 04/10/2013 07:46 pm »
Question time.

Q) On the reduction on Planetary Science.

CFO: Thinks we're at a steady state. It goes up and down - driven by their flagship missions. It's not surprising there's some reductions post launch for MSL.

Bolden: The first time you saw the reduction was when we took JWST out of Astrophysics. Went to Congress and made some adjustments and science made some sacrifices out of the Mars program (for JWST). Now able to do lower cost missions. Materially we've lived up to our commitments to the planetary science community.
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #71 on: 04/10/2013 07:48 pm »
Q) On Mars to 2020 - what about beyond that?

Bolden: NASA leads the world in Space Exploration. Mars robotics are precursors to crewed missions in the 2030s. Everything is leading to humans on Mars.
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #72 on: 04/10/2013 07:50 pm »
Q) Bill Harwood on Commercial Crew - what happens if we don't get full funding.

Bolden: We have set a bottom line. We made it very clear, this is the bottom line to get to the schedule date. We can't continue to limp along and we can't do it in 2017 if we go below that request figure.
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #73 on: 04/10/2013 07:52 pm »
Q) What should the public take out of the new asteroid mission?

A) This mission allows us to best develop out tech to Mars and beyond. We're on the thresh hold of almost being there. That's the why. For young men and women, for anyone who still wants to enter STEM, looking at today and this mission, we're doing what the President asked us to do - it gives them a reason to go to College.

We're doing our duty to inspire people. It's a whole bunch of stuff.
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #74 on: 04/10/2013 07:53 pm »
RELEASE: 13-102

NASA ASSOCIATE ADMINISTRATOR STATEMENTS ON THE ASTEROID INITIATIVE IN THE FY 2014 BUDGET REQUEST

WASHINGTON -- The following are statements from the associate
administrators of NASA's Human Exploration and Operations Mission
Directorate, Science Mission Directorate and Space Technology Mission
Directorate on the administration's budget request for the 2014
fiscal year.

From Associate Administrator for Human Exploration and Operations
William Gerstenmaier:

"The mission to find, capture and redirect an asteroid robotically,
and then visit it with astronauts to study it and return samples
takes advantage of expertise across all of NASA in an integrated
approach to exploration. Along with the scientific research and
technology demonstrations happening around the clock on the
International Space Station that are teaching us how humans can live
and work in space, this mission will give us valuable experience we
need in deep space operations to send humans to more distant
destinations in the solar system, including Mars. Through the balance
of this fiscal year, we will work to define an affordable mission
architecture. In Fiscal Year 2014, NASA will begin developing and
testing prototype capture mechanisms and concepts for crew
interactions with the asteroid."

From Associate Administrator for Science John Grunsfeld:

"The crucial first step in this endeavor is to enhance our ongoing
efforts to identify and characterize near-Earth objects for
scientific investigation and to find potentially hazardous asteroids
and targets appropriate for capture. The capture mission will be a
highly visible and significant collaboration of robotic and human
exploration in translunar space."

From Associate Administrator for Space Technology Michael Gazarik:

"This mission accelerates our technology development activities in
high-powered solar electric propulsion. The ambitious mission to
rendezvous, capture and redirect a small asteroid to Earth-moon space
could not be accomplished without solar electric propulsion
technology. This technology also will support the commercial
telecommunications and satellite industries, and is an essential step
toward future NASA human and robotic exploration forays into deep
space."

The NASA budget and supporting information are available at:

http://www.nasa.gov/budget
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #75 on: 04/10/2013 07:57 pm »
More on the asteroid mission. CFO throws a load of figures and my head exploded....

...notes this was planned at a very high level and it'll go into proper study in 2015.

Q) So it's new money for this new mission?

CFO: Demands in the budget go up and down, but the $105m is new money.
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #76 on: 04/10/2013 07:59 pm »
Q) Keith Cowing asking about "Mars in the goal, pound your shoe on the table". Have I missed something? Asks about ISS extension too.

Bolden: Our central focus is to lead the world in space exploration. We will sustain ISS with commercial crew and cargo. We'll respond to the President's challenge. And continues our ground breaking...

Pretty much read off a script and ended with "thanks very much". Didn't answer the question.
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 39270
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 25240
  • Likes Given: 12115
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #77 on: 04/10/2013 08:00 pm »
Here's an animation by NASA released today as part of the rest of the budget announcement (on www.nasa.gov) that shows just what the asteroid capture and study mission entails:

(An unmanned portion launched on an Atlas V, captures a small asteroid with a big bag thing and brings it near enough to Earth so it can be "docked" to by an Orion launched on an SLS, and then crew does an EVA, opening up the bag, taking pictures, collecting samples of the asteroid and then returning to Earth.)


Notes:
The asteroid thing seems to me like a firm response about what /exactly/ the next step is. It's ambitious, novel, sellable to the public (hello, Russia), accomplishes worthwhile scientific goals (collects significant samples... far more asteroid material than the $1B Osiris-Rex mission), advances ISRU possibilities for future BEO HSF, is within the maximum 8-10 year planning horizon, and can be done with basically currently in-development resources like SLS and Orion (the only really new part is the unmanned craft, and that would largely use the existing comm-sat and unmanned satellite infrastructure we've already built), not relying on a big plus-up to the budget.

I'm impressed. Let's hope Congress is as well (considering it gives a relatively near-term use for Orion and SLS, I'd say it has a pretty good chance).
« Last Edit: 04/10/2013 08:38 pm by Robotbeat »
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline mlindner

  • Software Engineer
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2908
  • Space Capitalist
  • Silicon Valley, CA
  • Liked: 2204
  • Likes Given: 818
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #78 on: 04/10/2013 08:03 pm »
*cry* they're still paying for IT for a VAX machine...
LEO is the ocean, not an island (let alone a continent). We create cruise liners to ride the oceans, not artificial islands in the middle of them. We need a physical place, which has physical resources, to make our future out there.

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #79 on: 04/10/2013 08:04 pm »
Webcast cut out, but I think he was committing to continue to look at prop depots....

Q) Can you still do the asteroid mission if there's a sequester.

CFO: We won't be able to do the broad activities if they do. We'll look at that if that happens.

Q) About the IT budget.

CFO: $1.8 billion on IT for everything NASA does.

General Bolden has to go.
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Political Hack Wannabe

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 781
  • Liked: 84
  • Likes Given: 4
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #80 on: 04/10/2013 08:04 pm »
Q) Keith Cowing asking about "Mars in the goal, pound your shoe on the table". Have I missed something? Asks about ISS extension too.

Bolden: Our central focus is to lead the world in space exploration. We will sustain ISS with commercial crew and cargo. We'll respond to the President's challenge. And continues our ground breaking...

Pretty much read off a script and ended with "thanks very much". Didn't answer the question.

Chris - back story on this can be found here
It's not democrats vs republicans, it's reality vs innumerate space cadet fantasy.

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #81 on: 04/10/2013 08:07 pm »
Thanks, and by the way, the "have I missed something?" was what Keith asked.....as in where is the proof Bolden has pounded his shoe.
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #82 on: 04/10/2013 08:09 pm »
CFO: No discussion with the space mining interests over the asteroid target. Mining has not been first and foremost in our thoughts.
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #83 on: 04/10/2013 08:14 pm »
Q) The 31 percent decrease in education.

CFO: Don't think it will decrease, but will increase the impact of the assets. It'll change how we do it. Every mission will contribute to education. We'll be streamlining, etc. It's very exciting for NASA.

Over.
« Last Edit: 04/10/2013 08:14 pm by Chris Bergin »
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Star One

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13997
  • UK
  • Liked: 3974
  • Likes Given: 220
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #84 on: 04/10/2013 08:16 pm »
CFO: No discussion with the space mining interests over the asteroid target. Mining has not been first and foremost in our thoughts.

Perhaps they should include it and look to do a public-private partnership on it?
« Last Edit: 04/10/2013 08:17 pm by Star One »

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #85 on: 04/10/2013 08:25 pm »
Right, I'm going to get something to eat and then spend some hours on that asteroid mission, so keep the thread going - and it can be used for reaction comments.
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17266
  • Liked: 7123
  • Likes Given: 3064
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #86 on: 04/10/2013 08:36 pm »
OSTP ‏@whitehouseostp 10m
WATCH LIVE at 1:30pm EDT: Administration S&T officials discuss 2014 Federal R&D Budget: http://www.tvworldwide.com/events/aaas/130410/# … #STEM

The OSTP briefing with Holdren and Bolden is archived here:
http://www.tvworldwide.com/events/aaas/130410/globe_show/default_go_archive.cfm?gsid=2244&type=flv&test=0&live=0

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17266
  • Liked: 7123
  • Likes Given: 3064
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #87 on: 04/10/2013 08:43 pm »
Here is the zipped mp3 file of the Bolden and Robinson teleconference on the NASA FY 2014 budget:
http://www.gamefront.com/files/23177526/FY+2014+Budget+-Bolden+and+Robinson.zip

Here is the presentation that goes with it:
http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/740427main_NASAFY2014SummaryBriefFinal.pdf

The Bolden and Robinson presentation was also recorded by US Stream (with slides) here:
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/31257039
« Last Edit: 04/10/2013 08:58 pm by yg1968 »

Offline deltaV

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2159
  • Change in velocity
  • Liked: 621
  • Likes Given: 2132
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #88 on: 04/10/2013 09:41 pm »
The knitty gritty budget documentation (a few hundred page worth) is at http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/740512main_FY2014%20CJ%20for%20Online.pdf .

Here are some of the numbers from there (millions of dollars):
                   FY '12 FY '13 FY '14 FY '15 FY '16 FY '17 FY '18
MPCV:              1200.0     -- 1026.8 1024.9 1027.1 1027.1 1028.3
SLS:               1497.1     -- 1384.9 1356.5 1360.2 1354.4 1345.4
Expl gnd sys:       304.5     --  318.2  408.4  414.2  436.8  445.8
Comm crew develop:  392.0     --  821.4  821.4  821.4  590.0  371.0
ISS Crew & Cargo:  1185.7     -- 1503.8 1681.8 1686.7 1819.7 2019.6

The FY 2012 numbers are actual, FY 2013 numbers are annualized continuing resolution estimates (which were apparently only calculated for the broadest line items), FY 2014 are what this current proposal is all about, and FY 2015-2018 are notional placeholders. Note that commercial crew development and certification money appears in the exploration budget but the actual procurement of crew and cargo appears in the space operations budget. The budget for ISS Crew and Cargo includes money for Soyuz as well as money for SpaceX, OSC, and so on.
« Last Edit: 04/10/2013 09:53 pm by deltaV »

Offline Prober

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10348
  • Save the spin....I'm keeping you honest!
  • Nevada
  • Liked: 721
  • Likes Given: 729
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #89 on: 04/10/2013 09:50 pm »
Terrible webcast, can only just make them out.

Agreed, after I heard this is a budget based on no reductions (signed into law) not worth the time listening to it.
2017 - Everything Old is New Again.
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant..." --Isoroku Yamamoto

Offline spectre9

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2403
  • Australia
  • Liked: 42
  • Likes Given: 68
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #90 on: 04/11/2013 01:02 am »
There it is!

Boom! Commercial Crew $821m!

No chance.

The appropriate drop from SLS to cover the difference

Commercial Crew test flights starting in 2015.

Space Technology $743m?

That would be nice but I think it's unlikely.

Earth Science is a monster budget, I don't see why they should get so much more than planetary. Are they a space agency or an Earth agency?

They say the Mars 2020 rover is included but with such a small budget they will not be able to do a sample return. Is Charlie sabotaging Mars 2020 to get it cancelled so they can change to the #2 priority of Europa?

Mostly the same old thing for NASA. Lots of money to maintain all the old stuff.

Offline deltaV

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2159
  • Change in velocity
  • Liked: 621
  • Likes Given: 2132
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #91 on: 04/11/2013 01:29 am »
The FY 2010 budget request had about $9 billion/year for human space flight. The Augustine Committee determined that this level of funding (the "constrained" budget) was insufficient to do any significant exploration. The current FY 2014 budget request is for a bit less than that level of funding. Surprisingly the current NASA plans have key dates similar to those in the deep space "less constrained budget" case studied by the Augustine Committee (page 91 of report and slide 27 of the "Sally Charts") despite the budget being about $3 billion per year less. I guess sometimes margins combined with good luck are sufficient for good news, "Hofstadter's law" notwithstanding. (That law is "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter’s Law.")

Augustine report:
http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/396093main_HSF_Cmte_FinalReport.pdf
Augustine "Sally charts":
http://www.nasa.gov/ppt/378555main_02%20-%20Sally%20Charts%20v11.ppt
FY 2010 budget request:
http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/345948main_1_Introduction_FY_2010_UPDATED_final.pdf
FY 2014 budget request:
http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/740512main_FY2014%20CJ%20for%20Online.pdf

Online robertross

  • Canadian Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17939
  • Westphal, Nova Scotia
  • Liked: 659
  • Likes Given: 7692
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #92 on: 04/11/2013 01:30 am »
Right, I'm going to get something to eat and then spend some hours on that asteroid mission, so keep the thread going - and it can be used for reaction comments.

Thanks Chris.

My own 2 cents is that it would seem NASA is to be put on life support, much like the rest of America, just keeping a holding pattern (holding its head above water): all because they can't sort out their priorities in government circles. It's crippling their country & their ability to move forward in any meaningful way.

(and as an aside: the infrastructure issue is even more troubling for America)

With erosion happening around the outside edges of all these NASA programs, we might just see (more) whole programs get shut down in the coming years.

Offline KEdward5

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 840
  • Dallas, TX
  • Liked: 57
  • Likes Given: 116
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #93 on: 04/11/2013 11:12 pm »
Right, I'm going to get something to eat and then spend some hours on that asteroid mission, so keep the thread going - and it can be used for reaction comments.

Thanks Chris.

My own 2 cents is that it would seem NASA is to be put on life support, much like the rest of America, just keeping a holding pattern (holding its head above water): all because they can't sort out their priorities in government circles. It's crippling their country & their ability to move forward in any meaningful way.

(and as an aside: the infrastructure issue is even more troubling for America)

With erosion happening around the outside edges of all these NASA programs, we might just see (more) whole programs get shut down in the coming years.

Chris's article:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/04/captured-asteroid-mission-redefining-em-2-challenge/


Offline AnalogMan

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3431
  • Cambridge, UK
  • Liked: 1602
  • Likes Given: 50
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #94 on: 04/14/2013 12:59 pm »
Just to add to the thread record, a transcript of the NASA teleconference is now available:

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/740871main_FY14_budget_telecon_trans.pdf

Copy also attached.

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17266
  • Liked: 7123
  • Likes Given: 3064
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #95 on: 04/15/2013 01:33 pm »
Here is Lori Garver's blog which discusses the NASA FY 2014 budget:
http://blogs.nasa.gov/cm/blog/garver/posts/post_1365619770038.html

Offline JohnFornaro

  • Not an expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10974
  • Delta-t is an important metric.
  • Planet Eaarth
    • Design / Program Associates
  • Liked: 1257
  • Likes Given: 724
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #96 on: 04/15/2013 01:43 pm »
Quote from: Ms. Garver
That is why we made an asteroid our next destination for human exploration three years ago. In addition to funding this asteroid mission planning, our budget funds an initiative to accelerate identification and characterization of asteroids that pose a threat to our planet. We will use existing capabilities including the Orion crew capsule and the SLS rocket, to benefit more fully from our ongoing investments.

It is a full court press by the Administration.  "Leadership" seems to be interpreted as getting your way, winning at all costs.

The key factor for the success of this mission, the asteroid bag, which only seems to work on a non-tumbling asteroid, is at a solid TRL of One.  Count 'em, One.  [Oh-Enn-Eee]  This is falsely characterized as an "existing capability".

In order to do this, they propose reducing the funding on another "existing capability", SLS.

The silver lining of course, is the funding for commercial crew.
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline deltaV

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2159
  • Change in velocity
  • Liked: 621
  • Likes Given: 2132
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #97 on: 04/15/2013 03:48 pm »
Quote from: Ms. Garver
That is why we made an asteroid our next destination for human exploration three years ago. In addition to funding this asteroid mission planning, our budget funds an initiative to accelerate identification and characterization of asteroids that pose a threat to our planet. We will use existing capabilities including the Orion crew capsule and the SLS rocket, to benefit more fully from our ongoing investments.

It is a full court press by the Administration.  "Leadership" seems to be interpreted as getting your way, winning at all costs.

The key factor for the success of this mission, the asteroid bag, which only seems to work on a non-tumbling asteroid, is at a solid TRL of One.  Count 'em, One.  [Oh-Enn-Eee]  This is falsely characterized as an "existing capability".

In order to do this, they propose reducing the funding on another "existing capability", SLS.

The silver lining of course, is the funding for commercial crew.

1. The Kreck study (http://www.kiss.caltech.edu/study/asteroid/asteroid_final_report.pdf) discusses how they plan to de-tumble tumbling asteroids. What is the source of your claim that the asteroid bag won't work on tumbling asteroids?

2. It's now eight years before 2021 and twelve years before 2025. Eight years is the time between the first US manned suborbital spaceflight and Apollo 11. Twelve years is the time between Sputnik and Apollo 11. It was 12 years from the invention of the sky crane concept until MSL's launch and 8 years between the start of the MSL program and its launch (http://www.popsci.com/bown/2012/innovator/mars-curiosity-sky-crane). Why exactly do you think the TRL of the asteroid bag is a show-stopper?

Offline JohnFornaro

  • Not an expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10974
  • Delta-t is an important metric.
  • Planet Eaarth
    • Design / Program Associates
  • Liked: 1257
  • Likes Given: 724
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #98 on: 04/15/2013 04:27 pm »
The key factor for the success of this mission, the asteroid bag, which only seems to work on a non-tumbling asteroid, is at a solid TRL of One.  Count 'em, One.  [Oh-Enn-Eee]  This is falsely characterized as an "existing capability".

In order to do this, they propose reducing the funding on another "existing capability", SLS.

1. The Kreck study (http://www.kiss.caltech.edu/study/asteroid/asteroid_final_report.pdf) discusses how they plan to de-tumble tumbling asteroids. What is the source of your claim that the asteroid bag won't work on tumbling asteroids?

2. It's now eight years before 2021 and twelve years before 2025. Eight years is the time between the first US manned suborbital spaceflight and Apollo 11. Twelve years is the time between Sputnik and Apollo 11. It was 12 years from the invention of the sky crane concept until MSL's launch and 8 years between the start of the MSL program and its launch (http://www.popsci.com/bown/2012/innovator/mars-curiosity-sky-crane). Why exactly do you think the TRL of the asteroid bag is a show-stopper?

1.  First, I didn't say it would never work; I said that the bag was at TRL1.  Do you have any links that would establish a higher TRL level for the asteroid bag concept?

Second, the NASA video, which is the only "source" out there today, shows the bag approaching a non-tumbling asteroid.  No other devices are shown in the video; the de-tumbling maneuver is merely "assumed" by the producers of the video.  The Keck Kids assert that they will capture and detumble the asteroid, in that order, on page 28.  The video clearly shows that they will detumble and then capture the asteroid.  Somebody's going to have to decide how they want to proceed.

The detumbling procedure is sketched out in the Keck paper; you can have the debate point if you wish, because they did mention that.  You cannot have an implication that this effort is a done deal.

Quote from: the Keck Kids
Although not shown in Fig. 11 it may be necessary to include a "Stewart Platform" in which six linear actuators would allow the ring to be moved in x, y, z, roll, pitch, and yaw.

It's not clear whether they are referring to Jon Stewart.  But hey.

Third, please tell me the source of your apparent acceptance of the claim that the asteroid bag scheme is accurately characterized by Ms. Garver as "existing capability"?

2.  Thanks for doing the calendar math for me.  Interestingly enough, in eight years, I will be eight years older than I am today, but I don't see how those basic calendar facts that you mention guarantee mission success, when mission success depends entirely upon accurate costing of every mission component. 

And again, I haven't used the "term show-stopper".  I have discussed the inaccurate cost estimates which would enable the mission to succeed.  The $2.6B number is dependent on billions of dollars of additional funding for what are euphemistically called "existing capabilities".

What is the source for this additional funding, explicitly not included in the Keck Paper?  Do you think that funding instability could be a showstopper?
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline deltaV

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2159
  • Change in velocity
  • Liked: 621
  • Likes Given: 2132
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #99 on: 04/15/2013 04:54 pm »
It's just occurred to me that this asteroid retrieval mission seems like a great candidate for a payment-on-delivery contracting model. Programs to draw inspiration from include the prize that SpaceShipOne won, the DARPA Grand Challenge autonomous road race, COTS, and IIRC several aviation firsts achieved by people seeking prizes. It's easy to measure success of an asteroid retrieval mission, which is a factor in favor of fixed-price contracting. Asteroid retrieval is similar to launch in this way and unlike e.g. a Mars rover.

Funding a $2 billion mission entirely from a prize is probably not workable, especially since Congress can't be trusted not to cancel it, so some of the funding would probably need to be COTS/CCdev style milestone payments with perhaps half the funding payable upon delivery. Putting the money for the prize in a trust fund that's built up over the years before delivery may build confidence that Congress would actually deliver the prize even if Congress cannot constitutionally bind itself to pay out the prize. It would probably make sense to have separate prizes for finding candidate asteroids and for building and operating the vehicle to retrieve the asteroid.

The key techs of SEP and solar panels are used frequently commercially in GEO comsats. It looks like existing engines such as the NEXT ion engine (http://esto.nasa.gov/conferences/nstc2007/papers/Patterson_Michael_D10P3_NSTC-07-0014.pdf) or the BPT-4000 Hall effect thruster (http://www.astronautix.com/engines/bpt4000.htm) should be sufficient for the mission (albeit not ideal since would need cluster of 5-10 of them).

The key tech of asteroid location may be similar to what asteroid mining firms need so they may be convinced to spend some of their own capital on the tech development. The credibility gain from winning milestone payments and/or a prize would presumably helpful for them to attract additional private capital even if the type of asteroids found isn't quite the same as they need. (The B612 foundation's proposed telescope appears to be too far away from the Earth to find sufficiently small asteroids, so it would only be useful if the option mentioned in the Kreck study of picking up a small rock from a big asteroid is chosen.)

The asteroid bag itself is pretty new but I don't see any reason to doubt it being doable. Even if it's hard there's plenty of precedent for prizes that yield solutions to difficult problems.

Offline JohnFornaro

  • Not an expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10974
  • Delta-t is an important metric.
  • Planet Eaarth
    • Design / Program Associates
  • Liked: 1257
  • Likes Given: 724
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #100 on: 04/15/2013 05:04 pm »
It's just occurred to me that this asteroid retrieval mission seems like a great candidate for a payment-on-delivery contracting model.

Now that is a good idea.  Now let me read the rest of your post...

Let me rephrase my statement, using the sarcasm quotes correctly:

[/sarcasm]Now that is a good idea. Now let me read the rest of your post...[sarcasm]

Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline JohnFornaro

  • Not an expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10974
  • Delta-t is an important metric.
  • Planet Eaarth
    • Design / Program Associates
  • Liked: 1257
  • Likes Given: 724
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #101 on: 04/15/2013 05:13 pm »
...some of the funding would probably need to be COTS/CCdev style milestone payments with perhaps half the funding payable upon delivery. Putting the money for the prize in a trust fund that's built up over the years before delivery may build confidence that Congress would actually deliver the prize ...

No doubt that some kind of a milestone payment system could be employed.  As to the trust fund, this is what I have in mind with my proposed change to NASA funding:  Use it or save it.  Surpluses in such a fund could cover reasonable cost overruns, or eventually fund "wouldn't it be nice" missions, with suitable oversight.  It would level out the funding instabilities, and would begin to reward government enterprises for being fiscally responsible.

Quote from: DeltaV
The asteroid bag itself is pretty new...

Good to see even a begrudging admission of the readiness level of the "brand new" technology proposal.

Quote from: DeltaV
... but I don't see any reason to doubt it being doable.

That's the kool-aid speaking, however.
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline deltaV

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2159
  • Change in velocity
  • Liked: 621
  • Likes Given: 2132
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #102 on: 04/15/2013 05:42 pm »
1.  First, I didn't say it would never work; I said that the bag was at TRL1.  Do you have any links that would establish a higher TRL level for the asteroid bag concept?
[...]
Third, please tell me the source of your apparent acceptance of the claim that the asteroid bag scheme is accurately characterized by Ms. Garver as "existing capability"?

There are two misunderstandings here, one by you and one by me. My misunderstanding is I assumed you brought up asteroid bag TRL because you think it's relevant to our policy discussions (not just as an attack on Graver) and hence were implicitly arguing that it was a problem. I see now that you didn't actually write that. What you literally wrote is however wrong due to your misunderstanding what Ms. Garver wrote. Ms. Garver's post says "We will use existing capabilities including [Orion and SLS]." Her statement that SLS and Orion will be used is true; she never stated (or IMHO even implied) that everything to do the mission exists already. There's no "only" before "use" in that sentence. (I don't want to waste time arguing about whether SLS and Orion count as "existing". For money-saving purposes those do programs already exist even if they haven't already flown.)

Quote
Second, the NASA video, which is the only "source" out there today, shows the bag approaching a non-tumbling asteroid.

I think the Kreck study is a much better source for details like this than that video is.

Quote
You cannot have an implication that this effort is a done deal.

I agree it isn't a done deal.

Quote
The $2.6B number is dependent on billions of dollars of additional funding for what are euphemistically called "existing capabilities".

I agree that funding is a serious risk, especially if NASA tries developing new thrusters and solar panels instead of using a cluster of existing ones.

---

This discussion of what people said is not productive so I don't anticipate continuing this discussion further.

Offline JohnFornaro

  • Not an expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10974
  • Delta-t is an important metric.
  • Planet Eaarth
    • Design / Program Associates
  • Liked: 1257
  • Likes Given: 724
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #103 on: 04/15/2013 06:32 pm »
My misunderstanding is I assumed you brought up asteroid bag TRL because you think it's relevant to our policy discussions ...

Well yeah.  If NASA officials are rallying behind the idea of developing this asteroid bag concept, they are free to rally around that idea.  Most of them must do as the Administrator orders them.  For the Administration to assert that the budget reported by the vested interests who stand to gain financially from funding this idea, is anything but biased, is fundamentally wrong.  It may be technically legal, but it is still wrong.

Quote from: JF
Second, the NASA video, which is the only "source" out there today, shows the bag approaching a non-tumbling asteroid.

Quote from: Langwich
I think the Kreck study is a much better source for details like this than that video is.

The paper, upon a close reading, makes clear the number of unsubstantiated costs associated with the mission.  Eventually, I would imagine that NASA and the expected PI's for the mission will coordinate their video outreach to the public.

Quote from: JF
The $2.6B number is dependent on billions of dollars of additional funding for what are euphemistically called "existing capabilities".

Quote from: Langwich
I agree that funding is a serious risk, especially if NASA tries developing new thrusters and solar panels instead of using a cluster of existing ones.

It's a lot more than just thrusters and solar panels.  To go all sixties for a sec:

It's not my bag, man.
« Last Edit: 04/15/2013 06:33 pm by JohnFornaro »
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline Mark S

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2284
  • Dallas, TX
  • Liked: 396
  • Likes Given: 80
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #104 on: 04/15/2013 07:08 pm »
John, I don't really like this mission idea either. But the NASA video clearly shows the capture craft approaching the spinning asteroid. It then maneuvers to a polar axis alignment and matches spins with the asteroid. (Just like the PanAm Express at the beginning of 2001: A Space Oddyssey, matching spins with the wheel station before docking.) The capture takes place with zero relative motion between the two objects. After capture, attitude jets fire to slow and then stop the objects' spin.

Mark S.

Offline JohnFornaro

  • Not an expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10974
  • Delta-t is an important metric.
  • Planet Eaarth
    • Design / Program Associates
  • Liked: 1257
  • Likes Given: 724
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #105 on: 04/15/2013 07:47 pm »
We need to do a bit of a thread fragment merge.  Parts of this conversation are in two different places.

Mark:  I agree that the video does show some rotation, a la the Strauss Waltz in "2001".  That perception is a matter of personal judgement as to its rate.  In addition, the video only shows one spin axis.

In the uncosted observation phase of this mission, they would be looking for what I'm calling a "lazy" asteroid, one with very little spin rate and even less tumbling.  With good orbital characteristics, the right albedo, etc. 

This is not the only objection I make to this mission.  My major objection is the "optimistic" assessment of costs in spite of NASA's own assessment of the ill effects of such an unrealistic approach:

Quote from: OIG
NASA leaders must temper the Agency’s culture of optimism by demanding realistic cost and schedule estimates, well-defined and stable requirements, and mature technologies early in development.

None of this temperment is shown in the Keck Kids paper.  Particularly the part about "mature" technologies.

Just because the President likes it, doesn't make it realistic.   

"Live and don't learn" seems to be the operative motto.
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline Proponent

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7277
  • Liked: 2782
  • Likes Given: 1462
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #106 on: 04/15/2013 11:39 pm »
TRL 1 means that the underlying physical phenomena have been observed; all of the technology needed for the asteroid heist is well beyond stage.

Offline jongoff

  • Recovering Rocket Plumber/Space Entrepreneur
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6807
  • Lafayette/Broomfield, CO
  • Liked: 3987
  • Likes Given: 1684
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #107 on: 04/15/2013 11:44 pm »
TRL 1 means that the underlying physical phenomena have been observed; all of the technology needed for the asteroid heist is well beyond stage.

Heh, I like the term "asteroid heist". That said, the TRL of the bag capture concept is probably not much higher than a TRL2-3 range. Not saying it can't be matured quickly (possibly using test flights on a Vomit Comet or on ISS with something like SPHERES in rocky shell serving as the asteroid target) to a suitable TRL6+, but just that it isn't exactly proven technology.

~Jon

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17266
  • Liked: 7123
  • Likes Given: 3064
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #108 on: 04/15/2013 11:59 pm »
The Keck study makes a similar recommendation on page 47:

Quote
Capture Mechanism Development

The capture mechanism must be able to accommodate a massive, irregularly shaped object with significant uncertainty in the physical dimensions and mass prior to launch. An over-sized inflatable structure lined with high-strength bags is the current concept for this mechanism. Development of a prototype capture mechanism based on this approach would significantly reduce risk for a future asteroid capture and return mission.

http://www.kiss.caltech.edu/study/asteroid/asteroid_final_report.pdf
« Last Edit: 04/16/2013 12:01 am by yg1968 »

Offline JohnFornaro

  • Not an expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10974
  • Delta-t is an important metric.
  • Planet Eaarth
    • Design / Program Associates
  • Liked: 1257
  • Likes Given: 724
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #109 on: 04/16/2013 12:34 am »
I guessed 1.  Jon guessed 2 or 3.   If you add up all these numbers you get 6.

I have never said that bag-ism could not achieve the desired level. 

I have stated factually that its TRL has been falsely advertised.
« Last Edit: 04/17/2013 01:41 pm by JohnFornaro »
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17266
  • Liked: 7123
  • Likes Given: 3064
Re: LIVE: NASA FY14 Budget Proposal - April 10, 2013
« Reply #110 on: 04/17/2013 12:15 am »
Mike Gazarik, NASA Space Technology Mission Directorate AA, held a media telecon today. Here is the zipped mp3 file of that teleconference:

http://www.gamefront.com/files/23242601/Space+Technology+FY+14+Budget.zip

It discusses the technology for the asteroid mission among other things.
« Last Edit: 04/27/2013 01:53 pm by yg1968 »

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17266
  • Liked: 7123
  • Likes Given: 3064

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
0