Author Topic: What would you launch with 53mt to LEO ?  (Read 126177 times)

Offline Sparky

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Re: What would you launch with 53mt to LEO ?
« Reply #40 on: 04/09/2011 06:35 am »
Or better yet, a swarm of micro/nano sats designed to latch onto existing orbital debris to deorbit. Either with small thrusters, or solar sails.

Offline rklaehn

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Re: What would you launch with 53mt to LEO ?
« Reply #41 on: 04/09/2011 07:26 am »
Why not just put an used dragon spacecraft on it and fly it on a free return trajectory around the moon? That would require a restart of the upper stage, but by the time falcon heavy flies they should have some routine in this.

Depending on the payload capability of the first flight, you could fly some non-perishable goods (cheese?) and bring them back.

If it has to be polar LEO, I vote for a bigelow module topped off with water. It would have a long orbital lifetime and be quite useful in the future.

Offline savuporo

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Re: What would you launch with 53mt to LEO ?
« Reply #42 on: 04/10/2011 02:19 am »
How much canopy could you roll into 53 MT ? How large banner could you unfold ? you'd probably need small SPHERES-like satellites flying in formation to take care of unfurling the banner.

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Offline neilh

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Re: What would you launch with 53mt to LEO ?
« Reply #43 on: 04/10/2011 03:21 am »
Whatever unpaid in-house payload gets launched on the first Falcon Heavy test launch, I think it's likely that it won't be announced beforehand. For example, RatSat and the cheese wheel weren't pre-announced. A partial exception to this was the Dragon qualification unit on the first Falcon 9. Remember that this is going to be a pretty high-risk flight for SpaceX with a number of components which haven't been launch-tested before. If hype is drummed up about a payload beforehand, a failure of the test launch will sting quite a bit more in the public eye.

My suspicion is that it won't be anything that requires Earth reentry, as that would require additional approvals and potential liability.
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Offline DeanG1967

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Re: What would you launch with 53mt to LEO ?
« Reply #44 on: 04/10/2011 04:42 am »
How about we put in every congressmen and senator (and fill the rest up with cow manure) and launch them all out of our world.  Then we could start over and maybe have a budget BEFORE we get 1/2 way through the year.

Offline sdsds

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Re: What would you launch with 53mt to LEO ?
« Reply #45 on: 04/10/2011 06:25 am »
It doesn't matter much what we would launch.  What would Elon launch?

My bet is he'll stack two Castor 30 solid motors for LEO departure, and a liquid motor for course correction, topped with a Mars impactor probe.  That's because by reaching out and touching Mars he would be showing the direction he wants to be headed.

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no exuses now man.  Do it!

http://ecorner.stanford.edu/authorMaterialInfo.html?mid=381

Elon's obvious mission for the first FH is Mars Oasis.
« Last Edit: 04/11/2011 03:20 am by sdsds »
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Offline Patchouli

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Re: What would you launch with 53mt to LEO ?
« Reply #46 on: 04/10/2011 06:37 am »
How about we put in every congressmen and senator (and fill the rest up with cow manure) and launch them all out of our world.  Then we could start over and maybe have a budget BEFORE we get 1/2 way through the year.

Maybe also include the big oil speculators ,CEO of oil companies,record company execs, and loudest of the anti nuke people.
Dang I think I might actually need Ares V for that.
It doesn't matter much what we would launch.  What would Elon launch?

My bet is he'll stack two Castor 30 solid motors for LEO departure, and a liquid motor for course correction, topped with a Mars impactor probe.  That's because by reaching out and touching Mars he would be showing the direction he wants to be headed.

I can see him trying that but the moon is such as easy target he can hit it with a good sized payload using only the Falcon heavy US.
Seeing their accuracy in achieving the target orbits on previous flights their chances of pulling off a lunar impactor and maybe even flyby with an unmanned Dragon would be very high.

Though I heard the first F9-H will carry many small payloads I suspect a lot of lunar Xprize payloads may be there.
« Last Edit: 04/10/2011 06:42 am by Patchouli »

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: What would you launch with 53mt to LEO ?
« Reply #47 on: 04/10/2011 05:23 pm »
It doesn't matter much what we would launch.  What would Elon launch?
{snip}

Once the Falcon Heavy has flow successfully a BEO stage is a possibility but for a test launch Elon will want to minimise the number of things that can go wrong.

Offline mlorrey

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Re: What would you launch with 53mt to LEO ?
« Reply #48 on: 04/10/2011 10:16 pm »
With a 53 ton payload, or 35 tons to TLI, you can put some really significant mining equipment on the moon and Mars. I also suspect that Elon is looking to win contracts for those fruits and nuts solar sats that PG&E signed onto a few years ago.
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Offline ugordan

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Re: What would you launch with 53mt to LEO ?
« Reply #49 on: 04/10/2011 10:29 pm »
With a 53 ton payload, or 35 tons to TLI

Sanity-check those numbers.

Offline alexterrell

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Re: What would you launch with 53mt to LEO ?
« Reply #50 on: 04/10/2011 10:49 pm »
I'd like a 600KW VASIMR Earth departure stage. This combination could then put 30-35 tons on Phobos.

One launch per month and you could get a nice supply chain going.

Plus a "BA-900" (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=24758.0) to form the basis of a crew shuttle between L1 and Phobos. A pair of these would transport a dozen crew every 2 years.

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: What would you launch with 53mt to LEO ?
« Reply #51 on: 04/11/2011 12:15 am »
With an initial launch of 30 - 35 mT to LEO I would lift a payload containing about 20 mT water to orbit.  In a rotating tank that spacecraft can dock to refill their drinking water.  A mixture of sun shields and heaters could be used to prevent the liquid freezing and boiling.  Station keeping and rendezvous hardware will also be needed.

Offline MP99

Re: What would you launch with 53mt to LEO ?
« Reply #52 on: 04/11/2011 12:34 am »
With a 53 ton payload, or 35 tons to TLI

Sanity-check those numbers.

35000lb, not 35000kg.

cheers, Martin

Offline simonbp

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Re: What would you launch with 53mt to LEO ?
« Reply #53 on: 04/11/2011 12:45 am »
1) Hire someone (e.g. Armadillo or Masten) to build me a cheap and simple lunar landing stage of appropriate size.

2) Land as much water as possible at a high-priority science target (not at the poles) on the Moon.

Thus, you can design a manned lander around using ISRU water (cracked to LH2/LOX), but not have to wait for ice extraction to get going before you return to the Moon. And, I bet that you could do it for less than $20 million or so (not counting launch costs)...
« Last Edit: 04/11/2011 12:52 am by simonbp »

Offline majormajor42

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Re: What would you launch with 53mt to LEO ?
« Reply #54 on: 04/11/2011 01:24 am »
Why not just put an used dragon spacecraft on it and fly it on a free return trajectory around the moon? That would require a restart of the upper stage, but by the time falcon heavy flies they should have some routine in this.

Depending on the payload capability of the first flight, you could fly some non-perishable goods (cheese?) and bring them back.

If it has to be polar LEO, I vote for a bigelow module topped off with water. It would have a long orbital lifetime and be quite useful in the future.


Yes, Polar.  No one has really forced the issue but it does have to be Polar, right?  Vandenberg launches all head south over the ocean and unpopulated areas.  I have no idea how much loss we are talking about if the rocket were to go out west or south and make a big turn to the east to get into some of the normal orbits that people are referring to here.  I think I saw that to polar launch from KSC costs about a 30% loss cause you first go east(ish) and then turn north (or south?) to avoid populated areas, so I image that at least the opposite must be true, at least 30% loss from VAB to any LEO besides polar.  That'll limit many of the ideas I see here.

But, I might like the Dragon idea.  Since NASA is requiring a new Dragon module for each of their COTS flights, even though SpaceX says they are reusable, a Dragon on this test flight would also showcase the reusability of the craft.  That would be a nice feather in their cap.  Another interesting feather in the cap might be recovering that Dragon from it's polar orbit.  I don't think this has ever been done either, recover something from polar orbit, has it?  By the time they fly the mission in early 2013, there might be a few used Dragons around for this mission.  They will also have more experience with the Dragon so hopefully it wouldn't be a high risk idea.

Once again, the key is success and in the sights of the media, or politicians, a failure of the payload might be a failure of FH.

I also assume that no GEO/BEO missions take off from VAB.  I kinda looked around on wiki and didn't see any.  Once again, I'm assuming major losses since there is no assist from the Earth's rotation.

So while this thread is fun, most of the posts pertain to possible payloads several years down the road when the FH is launching out of KSC, not VAB.  Prepositioning water or other supplies or Bigelow modules don't do you any good unless you are expecting a Polar orbit human presence at some point.  Perhaps there will be someday, who knows?  It was the USAF intention to do so at some point.

...water is life and it is out there, where we intend to go. I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man or machine on a body such as the Moon and harvest a cup of water for a human to drink or process into fuel for their craft.

Offline hop

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Re: What would you launch with 53mt to LEO ?
« Reply #55 on: 04/11/2011 01:43 am »
I'd build a payload dispenser that can handle a few different sizes of payload, an offer slots to any university, high school or other educational organization that can build a workable payload.

Destination could be LEO, but if you have the capability, drop some in LEO and send the rest to the moon.

Offline SpacexULA

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Re: What would you launch with 53mt to LEO ?
« Reply #56 on: 04/11/2011 02:09 am »
I would tell Mr Musk he had a grate idea 10 years ago, and now he has the rocket, no exuses now man.  Do it!

http://ecorner.stanford.edu/authorMaterialInfo.html?mid=381

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Offline 00rs250

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Re: What would you launch with 53mt to LEO ?
« Reply #57 on: 04/11/2011 02:55 am »
I say take more cheese and send it to the moon and back.  Then sell it on eBay as the real moon cheese.  E.M. would probably make all his money back for the launch from the use of PayPal to buy it.
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Offline Antares

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Re: What would you launch with 53mt to LEO ?
« Reply #58 on: 04/11/2011 04:02 am »
Certain commenters from the space blogosphere.
If I like something on NSF, it's probably because I know it to be accurate.  Every once in a while, it's just something I agree with.  Facts generally receive the former.

Offline neilh

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Re: What would you launch with 53mt to LEO ?
« Reply #59 on: 04/11/2011 04:25 am »
Once again, the key is success and in the sights of the media, or politicians, a failure of the payload might be a failure of FH.

This is IMHO another reason why any additional payloads or objectives beyond the simple launch test won't be announced beforehand. I can't find the quote, but when the Falcon 9 launched he explicitly said that he wouldn't reveal all of the mission objectives beforehand. The reason he stated is that he didn't want certain political opponents to use those failed extra objectives to try to dampen the success story of the overall mission.
« Last Edit: 04/11/2011 04:27 am by neilh »
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