Author Topic: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?  (Read 71502 times)

Online edzieba

  • Virtual Realist
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6308
  • United Kingdom
  • Liked: 9629
  • Likes Given: 41
Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #120 on: 12/19/2022 11:18 am »
More from ChatGPT from OpenAI.
Like other GPT language models, ChatGPT clearly makes for a good politician: provides a few paragraphs of waffle without meaningfully answering the question.

Of course.

There's an outcry any time an AI doesn't emit a "politically correct" answer. It's no wonder engineers train their AI to talk like a politician.
No, it's a byproduct of AI being trained to assemble coherent sentences (and ideally ones derived from information semantically related to the prompt) from a vast training set rather than forming a separate knowledge graph and constructing sentences based on that graph. The chatbot has no understanding of the data it is dispensing, only an understanding of how closely related the prompt is to sentences it has already observed. Political correctness is of minimal concern beyond trying to avoid poisoned data in the training datasets (e.g. Microsoft's 'Tay' re-training on unfiltered Twitter inputs and that being used as an attack vector).

Offline JohnFornaro

  • Not an expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10975
  • Delta-t is an important metric.
  • Planet Eaarth
    • Design / Program Associates
  • Liked: 1258
  • Likes Given: 724
Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #121 on: 12/19/2022 11:34 am »
More from ChatGPT from OpenAI.
Like other GPT language models, ChatGPT clearly makes for a good politician: provides a few paragraphs of waffle without meaningfully answering the question.

Of course.

There's an outcry any time an AI doesn't emit a "politically correct" answer. It's no wonder engineers train their AI to talk like a politician.

No, it's a byproduct of AI being trained to assemble coherent sentences (and ideally ones derived from information semantically related to the prompt) from a vast training set rather than forming a separate knowledge graph and constructing sentences based on that graph. ...

Why couldn't "coherent sentences" be constructed from a "vast" right leaning training set?  The chat bots are being trained to present a viewpoint, and not so much as to inform, at least as I see it.
« Last Edit: 12/19/2022 11:37 am by JohnFornaro »
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Online edzieba

  • Virtual Realist
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6308
  • United Kingdom
  • Liked: 9629
  • Likes Given: 41
Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #122 on: 12/19/2022 12:11 pm »
More from ChatGPT from OpenAI.
Like other GPT language models, ChatGPT clearly makes for a good politician: provides a few paragraphs of waffle without meaningfully answering the question.

Of course.

There's an outcry any time an AI doesn't emit a "politically correct" answer. It's no wonder engineers train their AI to talk like a politician.

No, it's a byproduct of AI being trained to assemble coherent sentences (and ideally ones derived from information semantically related to the prompt) from a vast training set rather than forming a separate knowledge graph and constructing sentences based on that graph. ...

Why couldn't "coherent sentences" be constructed from a "vast" right leaning training set?
Why would you exclude a huge amount of training data (and spend thousands man-years filtering based on an extremely subjective viewpoint) in order to train an unnecessarily biased AI? Doesn't seem to even be feasible to pay people to do that filtering (the amount of text processed for GPT is unimaginably vast), much less any point in doing so to produce a less comprehensive model.

Online Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 39283
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 25278
  • Likes Given: 12124
Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #123 on: 12/19/2022 07:26 pm »
Can we NOT bring politics into this?
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline JohnFornaro

  • Not an expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10975
  • Delta-t is an important metric.
  • Planet Eaarth
    • Design / Program Associates
  • Liked: 1258
  • Likes Given: 724
Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #124 on: 12/20/2022 11:35 am »
Can we NOT bring politics into this?

Ask that of the AI trainers, who are doing exactly that.
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Online Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 39283
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 25278
  • Likes Given: 12124
Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #125 on: 12/20/2022 12:41 pm »
Can we NOT bring politics into this?

Ask that of the AI trainers, who are doing exactly that.
Even if true, itís completely off topic.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline JohnFornaro

  • Not an expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10975
  • Delta-t is an important metric.
  • Planet Eaarth
    • Design / Program Associates
  • Liked: 1258
  • Likes Given: 724
Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #126 on: 12/20/2022 01:22 pm »
Can we NOT bring politics into this?

Ask that of the AI trainers, who are doing exactly that.
Even if true, itís completely off topic.

Then mention your concerns to the guy who brought it up.
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Online edzieba

  • Virtual Realist
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6308
  • United Kingdom
  • Liked: 9629
  • Likes Given: 41
Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #127 on: 12/20/2022 01:25 pm »
Can we NOT bring politics into this?

Ask that of the AI trainers, who are doing exactly that.
You're going to have to offer some evidence for this repeated assertion.

Online Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 39283
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 25278
  • Likes Given: 12124
Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #128 on: 12/20/2022 01:30 pm »
Can we NOT bring politics into this?

Ask that of the AI trainers, who are doing exactly that.
You're going to have to offer some evidence for this repeated assertion.
Why? Itís off topic and boring.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Online Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 39283
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 25278
  • Likes Given: 12124
Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #129 on: 12/20/2022 01:32 pm »
Mr. Scott produced some pretty good images with DallE2. Better than Iíve been able to manage. I like the pillars, especially.

This thread is just fun to think about.  I'm enjoying taking these wacky ideas and playing around with the OpenAI DALL*E 2 image generator.  Just want to generate some concept art and blow off reality.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline sanman

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6009
  • Liked: 1324
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #130 on: 12/22/2022 03:59 pm »
What exactly is neuromorphic computing? And what are the advantages of it?


Offline sanman

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6009
  • Liked: 1324
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #131 on: 12/24/2022 12:18 am »
OpenAI has also come out with a new 3D-object generator that works on input from text prompts.

https://techcrunch.com/2022/12/20/openai-releases-point-e-an-ai-that-generates-3d-models/

https://www.sciencefocus.com/future-technology/point-e/

It starts off by generating point-clouds from the text prompts, and then converts those into 3D object meshes.

ChatGPT can create a gear in AutoCAD in its native AutoLisp:




I'm curious, though - could Machine Learning be used to make progressively better rockets in Kerbal Space Program?
In that situation, perhaps you'd have a neural network that keeps proposing new rocket configurations, and meanwhile the adversarial discriminator would be a physics engine. The generative proposer would then get progressively smarter by learning from the rejections. It would be interesting to see which solutions it converges on.

« Last Edit: 12/24/2022 02:48 pm by sanman »

Offline ppnl

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 312
  • Liked: 209
  • Likes Given: 19
Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #132 on: 12/24/2022 04:36 am »
What exactly is neuromorphic computing? And what are the advantages of it?



Neuromorphic computing is simply an attempt to copy the function of the brain on a hardware level. For example a computer may have a clock speed of five billion cycles per second and a signal speed a respectable fraction of the speed of light. A neuron in the brain only fires a few times a second and the signal speed is like 250 miles per hour. But on a hardware level the brain has a hundred billion neurons working in parallel while a computer can only have a handful of sequential processes.

You can mimic the parallelism of neurons in a ordinary chip but that is vastly inefficient. They use graphics cards to do neural nets because they have thousands of CUDA cores but that is still far below the hundred billion neurons in a brain.

The idea is to implement neurons in very small devices like memristors. The advantage is that it could be vastly more energy efficient and vastly better circuit density. It should be possible to exceed the circuit density, energy efficiency and speed of the brain this way. After all nature rarely finds anything close to an optimal solution.     

Offline sanman

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6009
  • Liked: 1324
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #133 on: 12/24/2022 10:00 pm »
The idea is to implement neurons in very small devices like memristors. The advantage is that it could be vastly more energy efficient and vastly better circuit density. It should be possible to exceed the circuit density, energy efficiency and speed of the brain this way. After all nature rarely finds anything close to an optimal solution.

Regarding memristors, the ones I've read about seem to be electrochemical devices which partly depend on chemistry for hysteresis. From what I see, this then introduces a problem of entropy/non-reversibility which affects the life of the memristor component (just like the limited cycle life of batteries). At some point, the memristor will become non-responsive to further changes, and effectively be dead. You'll tell me that this is how real neurons work too, but biological neurons are supported by a metabolism which preserves their life. Can memristors have a useful lifespan akin to conventional memory chips?

Offline JohnFornaro

  • Not an expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10975
  • Delta-t is an important metric.
  • Planet Eaarth
    • Design / Program Associates
  • Liked: 1258
  • Likes Given: 724
Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #134 on: 12/25/2022 02:11 pm »
OpenAI has also come out with a new 3D-object generator that works on input from text prompts. ... ChatGPT can create a gear in AutoCAD in its native AutoLisp:

That's an image, and I couldn't test it directly, but I just experimented with its code generating capaity, using the following language and two regenerations.  None of the Lisp routines worked as expected, although the routines loaded correctly, proving that ChatBot can create grammatically correct code.

The criticism will be made that my prompt didn't give ChatBot enough instruction to create the code that I wanted.  To this, I say, elsewhere on the site, they point out that ChatBot will ask for clarification, but this didn't happen.

Importantly, ChatBot did demonstrate much deeper knowledge about ACAD Lisp than I have. Its code snippets opened my eyes to different ways of programming with Lisp.

*************************

; Created by ChatbotGPT on 12-25-22, given the
; following text:

; Please write a Lisp routine for AutoCAD release 14
; which converts a 2D block into a 3D block.

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

;(defun C:CONVERT2DTO3D (/ ent newblock)
;  (command "block" "*")
;  (setq ent (entsel "Select a 2D block: "))
;  (if ent
;      (progn
;        (setq newblock (car (entget (car ent))))
;        (command "block" newblock "3d" "")
;        (alert "Block converted to 3D.")
;      )
;    (alert "No block selected.")
;  )
;  (princ)
;)

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

; Regenerate response provided this:

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

(defun c:3DBLOCK (/ blkname inspt elev inspnt blk)
  (setq blkname (getstring "\nEnter block name: "))
  (setq inspt (getpoint "\nSpecify insertion point: "))
  (setq elev (getreal "\nSpecify elevation: "))
  (setq inspnt (list (car inspt) (cadr inspt) elev))
  (setq blk (entmakex '(-2 . "INSERT") '(0 . "NAME") blkname '(66 . 1) '(10 . inspnt)))
  (entmod blk '(210 . '(0.0 0.0 1.0)))
  (command "REGEN")
  (princ)
)

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

; ChatBotGPT provided these instructions:

; To use this routine, type 3DBLOCK at the command prompt
; and follow the prompts. The routine will ask you for the
; name of the block to convert, the insertion point for the
; new 3D block, and the elevation of the insertion point. It
; will then create a new 3D block at the specified location
; and with the specified elevation.

; Note: This Lisp routine was written for AutoCAD Release 14,
; which was released in 1997. It may not work with newer
; versions of AutoCAD.

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

; Second Regenerate response provided this:

; Here is a Lisp routine that can be used to convert
; a 2D block into a 3D block in AutoCAD release 14:

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

(defun c:convert2dblockto3dblock ()
  (setq bname (getstring "Enter name of block to convert: "))
  (setq b (entget (car (entsel (strcat "Select insertion point of block reference to convert: " bname)))))
  (setq inspoint (cdr (assoc 10 b)))
  (command "block" bname "*" "y" "3d" inspoint "")
  (command "block" bname "*" "y" "2d" inspoint "")
  (princ)
)

; To use this routine, simply enter the command
; "convert2dblockto3dblock" in the AutoCAD command prompt
; and follow the prompts. The routine will ask you to enter
; the name of the 2D block that you want to convert, and
; then select the insertion point of a block reference of
; that block. The routine will then create a new 3D block
; with the same name and geometry as the original 2D block,
; and replace the selected block reference with a reference
; to the new 3D block.
« Last Edit: 12/25/2022 02:12 pm by JohnFornaro »
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline JohnFornaro

  • Not an expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10975
  • Delta-t is an important metric.
  • Planet Eaarth
    • Design / Program Associates
  • Liked: 1258
  • Likes Given: 724
Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #135 on: 12/25/2022 02:14 pm »
After all nature rarely finds anything close to an optimal solution.   

Really?
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Online Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 39283
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 25278
  • Likes Given: 12124
Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #136 on: 12/25/2022 02:24 pm »
JohnFornano, your exploration of code with ChatGPT shows an important way AI is and will be used: as a sort of assistant to a human. Computers are often called a bicycle for the mind. With things like GitHub Copilot and ChatGPT, after they’re tweaked and refined, are like an e-bike for the mind. :)

I would like to use transfer learning to train ChatGPT/DaVinci003 on NTRS documents, but you can’t download the whole model, yet, so that’s not really doable except by feeding it via prompts (not scalable since its short term memory is only 4000 tokens/words… ironic since it needs almost a terabyte of RAM to run).
« Last Edit: 12/25/2022 02:27 pm by Robotbeat »
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline sanman

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6009
  • Liked: 1324
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #137 on: 12/25/2022 03:35 pm »
I've seen various instances where asking ChatGPT to code something produces code that doesn't quite work right. It will confidently spit out an answer, even while that answer is wrong. So it's important to test any code that it spits out, and not blindly take it on faith. I guess AI is always going to need some human supervision.

Offline JohnFornaro

  • Not an expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10975
  • Delta-t is an important metric.
  • Planet Eaarth
    • Design / Program Associates
  • Liked: 1258
  • Likes Given: 724
Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #138 on: 12/25/2022 04:46 pm »
I've seen various instances where asking ChatGPT to code something produces code that doesn't quite work right. It will confidently spit out an answer, even while that answer is wrong. So it's important to test any code that it spits out, and not blindly take it on faith. I guess AI is always going to need some human supervision.

Bingo.  Scott Adams, the Dilbert guy, is running his podcast at this very moment:



Since AI is topical,  I'll point out that Scott is asking ChatGPT leading questions about broadly topical subjects in other fields.  The AI acknowleges that it can only report on the data it has been trained upon, tacitly admitting that its responses are biased by its creators.  WRT coding; Lisp is very nearly irrelevant in today's coding environment. I find it amazing that the AI can generate grammatical code, even if non-working.

Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Online DanClemmensen

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5695
  • Earth (currently)
  • Liked: 4457
  • Likes Given: 1854
Re: How Can AI Be Used for Space Applications?
« Reply #139 on: 12/26/2022 04:19 am »
I've seen various instances where asking ChatGPT to code something produces code that doesn't quite work right. It will confidently spit out an answer, even while that answer is wrong. So it's important to test any code that it spits out, and not blindly take it on faith. I guess AI is always going to need some human supervision.
You appear to be overgeneralizing. ChatGPT is not optimized at all for code generation and is fairly crude by comparison to even some of today's systems, so "always going to need" is shortsighted. Within a decade, and probably within a year, someone will create a reflexive version of one of these models that will begin to improve itself.

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
1