Author Topic: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 12  (Read 617296 times)

Offline alugobi

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 12
« Reply #1200 on: 09/17/2022 04:07 pm »
I think I just got epilepsy.

Offline InterestedEngineer

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 12
« Reply #1201 on: 09/17/2022 06:46 pm »
How many sets of GSE start fluid/gas lines going up the OLM?

I count three sets.   Anyone got a better count?

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 12
« Reply #1202 on: 09/19/2022 06:11 pm »
twitter.com/csi_starbase/status/1571657304562450432

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The new blast shielding installed onto the launch mount - which prevents explosions from making their way to the inside of the structure - is more than 3/4 of the way complete.

SpaceX will likely resume static fire operations once that job is finished.

https://twitter.com/csi_starbase/status/1571923673635864583

Quote
Anticipating the responses on this...here is a time-lapse of crews welding in the remaining OLM shielding last night. The shields are used to protect the RBQD's and also surrounds the hold down clamps. More on this later...

Offline Nomadd

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 12
« Reply #1203 on: 09/20/2022 04:54 pm »
 The sheriff at the pad asked me to go away because they were about to do some sort of testing.
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Offline alugobi

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 12
« Reply #1204 on: 09/21/2022 12:29 am »
What are they doing that requires a lockdown?

Online Hamish.Student

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 12
« Reply #1205 on: 09/21/2022 07:41 am »
What are they doing that requires a lockdown?
 
 
The lift?

Online jimvela

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 12
« Reply #1206 on: 09/21/2022 04:09 pm »
A recent incident indicated a need to be a little more aggressive with closures.

Hopefully not an incident involving a roving traveler of some note on NSF... :-)

Offline su27k

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 12
« Reply #1207 on: 09/22/2022 03:33 am »
https://twitter.com/csi_starbase/status/1572761669432115202

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Hey #StarshipAddicts, with Booster 7 off of the Orbital Launch Mount, SpaceX carried out a test of the #FIREX Fire Suppression System. To be clear, this is not deluge. Its intended for fire suppression purposes only ! 

5x speed increase🎥: @LabPadre


https://twitter.com/csi_starbase/status/1572773552687808513

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As expected, SpaceX also tested the secondary water system. This new system looks slightly more deluge-like @elonmusk.

I'm still on the fence if that's what its intended to be. It's currently labeled as FIREX.

🎥: @LabPadre

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 12
« Reply #1208 on: 09/22/2022 02:50 pm »
https://twitter.com/csi_starbase/status/1572948632294277121

Quote
CHECK THIS OUT!!

First full test of the Fire Suppression system on the Orbital Launch Mount. #SpaceX is using a high pressure nitrogen gas nozzle to both atomize the water, and quickly displace oxygen.

🎥:@LabPadre

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 12
« Reply #1209 on: 09/22/2022 02:51 pm »
https://twitter.com/nicansuini/status/1572945869783322625

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SpaceX just concluded a >6 minute water deluge test on the OLM!

[email protected]

https://twitter.com/nicansuini/status/1572947974057238529

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The rainbow machine functioning at 💯

[email protected]

https://twitter.com/nasaspaceflight/status/1572945108722675712

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Starbase Orbital Launch Mount is enjoying some testing (without a booster) this morning.

youtube.com/watch?v=mhJRzQ
« Last Edit: 09/22/2022 02:58 pm by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 12
« Reply #1210 on: 09/22/2022 02:57 pm »
https://twitter.com/cosmicalchief/status/1572948306891784198

Quote
First test of the OLM new plumbing which lasted several minutes. Is this fire suppression or water deluge?? Whatever, it was pretty cool to watch and loud as hell.
#Starbase #Starship #SpaceX
📸 Me for WAI Media @FelixSchlang

Offline InterestedEngineer

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 12
« Reply #1211 on: 09/22/2022 03:35 pm »
https://twitter.com/cosmicalchief/status/1572948306891784198

Quote
First test of the OLM new plumbing which lasted several minutes. Is this fire suppression or water deluge?? Whatever, it was pretty cool to watch and loud as hell.
#Starbase #Starship #SpaceX
📸 Me for WAI Media @FelixSchlang

Booster puts out 33GJ/sec, which will run for about 4.5 seconds on the pad (startup takes some time).  So about 150GJ to completely absorb the exhaust energy (I know it isn't 100%, this is back of envelope)

The heat of vaporization for water at 18degC is about 2.5MJ

150GJ/2.5MJ = 60t of water in the deluge, or 60 kL of water.

A rate of 13t or 13kL per second.

Any guesses on what the deluge rate was on this video?  Probably not 13kL/second.  Maybe 1/10 of that.

Also why 6 minutes?   The full exhaust impinges on the OLM for somewhere around 4-6 seconds.

These two data points leads me to conclude it's for fire suppression, not sound suppression.  Or rather putting a fire out, since suppression implies not having a fire in the first place during the 4-6 seconds fire is impinging on the OLM.

Offline Tangilinear Interjar

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 12
« Reply #1212 on: 09/22/2022 03:42 pm »
So there are two water circuits and a cold/liquid nitrogen circuit.

It seems like one of the water circuits connects with the nitrogen circuit, possibly making a kind of snow maker.

I can understand using nitrogen to displace oxygen for fire suppression, adding some water will help a little but mostly it helps cool stuff. But if this is a fire suppression system what is on fire in there that needs to be put out?

Excluding methane, there's not a lot of stuff that should burn under the rocket, there's probably a lot more burny stuff bolted to the sides but we are not seeing any fire suppression there. If it's out of control methane burning you have a really big problem that I doubt that fire suppression system could handle.

So it doesn't make sense to me that this is just for putting out a fire. BUT it does seem like it could absorb a lot of heat energy, maybe it's a cooling system for static fires and launch?

They don't think they need a deluge system for sound suppression or flame diverter because they designed the rocket to be robust etc. But all that heat is going to be too much for the structure and equipment down below and nearby. So maybe this is just a big air-conditioner! 🤔

Offline StuffOfInterest

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 12
« Reply #1213 on: 09/22/2022 04:03 pm »
Out of curiosity, where is all that water going after it pours out of the launch mount?  Is it being collected for filtering and reuse or does it flush into the drain network?

Online docmordrid

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 12
« Reply #1214 on: 09/22/2022 05:05 pm »
Out of curiosity, where is all that water going after it pours out of the launch mount?  Is it being collected for filtering and reuse or does it flush into the drain network?

Both, but in the reverse order?
DM

Offline InterestedEngineer

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 12
« Reply #1215 on: 09/22/2022 05:14 pm »
So there are two water circuits and a cold/liquid nitrogen circuit.

It seems like one of the water circuits connects with the nitrogen circuit, possibly making a kind of snow maker.

I can understand using nitrogen to displace oxygen for fire suppression, adding some water will help a little but mostly it helps cool stuff. But if this is a fire suppression system what is on fire in there that needs to be put out?

Excluding methane, there's not a lot of stuff that should burn under the rocket, there's probably a lot more burny stuff bolted to the sides but we are not seeing any fire suppression there. If it's out of control methane burning you have a really big problem that I doubt that fire suppression system could handle.

So it doesn't make sense to me that this is just for putting out a fire. BUT it does seem like it could absorb a lot of heat energy, maybe it's a cooling system for static fires and launch?

They don't think they need a deluge system for sound suppression or flame diverter because they designed the rocket to be robust etc. But all that heat is going to be too much for the structure and equipment down below and nearby. So maybe this is just a big air-conditioner! 🤔

Here are pictures of the blast damage from the 7 engine static fire.  Before, and after. 

So with zero deluge 7 engines causes some amount of damage.


Courtesy

« Last Edit: 09/22/2022 05:15 pm by InterestedEngineer »

Offline daavery

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 12
« Reply #1216 on: 09/22/2022 06:32 pm »
So there are two water circuits and a cold/liquid nitrogen circuit.

It seems like one of the water circuits connects with the nitrogen circuit, possibly making a kind of snow maker.

I can understand using nitrogen to displace oxygen for fire suppression, adding some water will help a little but mostly it helps cool stuff. But if this is a fire suppression system what is on fire in there that needs to be put out?


there are 2 water loops with a common feed line ( separate valves for each loop from the feed) and the GN2 is tapped from the GN2 purge supply line. the GN2 nozzles are a foot or so away from the new water nozzles at roughly 90 degs to the side and aimed at the exit of the water nozzle

Offline alugobi

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 12
« Reply #1217 on: 09/22/2022 06:52 pm »
Out of curiosity, where is all that water going after it pours out of the launch mount?  Is it being collected for filtering and reuse or does it flush into the drain network?
They built a sump that runs along pad base on the wetlands side of the launch area.  From aerial photos at the time, I looks like it channels the water back towards the tank farm at the vent location, and then it drains into the gully there in the dry bed.

Offline InterestedEngineer

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 12
« Reply #1218 on: 09/22/2022 07:07 pm »
It would appear to some of us on the heat shield thread that the suborbital stands need serious upgrades to avoid tile damage.  https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=50748.msg2411204#msg2411204

As in, building a a new one or a complete R&R of an existing stand, adding blast shields, etc.

Are there rumors of anything like that in the works?

It also seems to be a conflict between exhaust redirection (blast shields) and ease of getting under the mount to service engines using something on wheels.   I don't think SpaceX has solved that conflict yet.  Maybe a blast shield on wheels?

Offline alugobi

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 12
« Reply #1219 on: 09/22/2022 07:21 pm »
Zack at CSI pointed out that when they beefed up the mass around the legs of the suborbital stand, they poured more concrete around the perimeter.  They had to ramp it because the engine service truck couldn't get up in there.  It's 14 inches thick, they measured, but they didn't use the mix that's directly under the engines. 

So it burned and spalled off in a bajillion chunks that flew everywhere.  Including up against the rocket standing there, it would appear.

Watch some of the slow motion replays of the static fire; the view with the lagoon in foreground shows a hail of concrete pieces falling into the water.  After quite a period, too, which means that stuff when sky high.

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