Author Topic: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 11  (Read 349402 times)

Online Chris Bergin

Thread 11 for SpaceX's development of a Boca Chica launch site.

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   Thread 1 COVERAGE
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Offline DreamyPickle

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The new "Franken crane" doesn't look tall enough to stack the full tower.

Will their add more segments to the crane or do something else? It's not too late to bring in a tower crane and mount it next to the tower.

Offline cdebuhr

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The new "Franken crane" doesn't look tall enough to stack the full tower.

Will their add more segments to the crane or do something else? It's not too late to bring in a tower crane and mount it next to the tower.
I was looking at one of the LabPadre feed earlier, and you could just see one of the Fagioli telescopic mobile units schlepping around a boom segment.  I think they can do at least one more segment in the current configuration, but then I expect they'll lay down the boom and add more (not unlike what they did to the LR1600 to put the bridge crane in the high bay).

Offline Barnalby

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The LR 11350 AKA Frankencrane/Kong can be quickly reconfigured to become over twice as tall as it is right now, either by adding a boom extension or adding a luffing jib, and in either configuration it has more than enough lift capacity to finish the tower.  There's thought that this current shorter configuration is optimized around lifting the launch table, which by all estimations weighs significantly more than the tower segments do.

Offline TrueBlueWitt

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The LR 11350 AKA Frankencrane/Kong can be quickly reconfigured to become over twice as tall as it is right now, either by adding a boom extension or adding a luffing jib, and in either configuration it has more than enough lift capacity to finish the tower.  There's thought that this current shorter configuration is optimized around lifting the launch table, which by all estimations weighs significantly more than the tower segments do.

My guess is they're going with the Luffing Jib. And sooner than later.  I saw a hinge section and two more heavy boom/jib sections headed to the launch site a little while back on LabPadre's cam.

Offline chopsticks

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Not about the crane, but I'm wondering about the concrete that will go in the launch tower tubes. How high will they go before they start pouring concrete inside? How high can they go?

Offline Barnalby

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My guess is they're going with the Luffing Jib. And sooner than later.  I saw a hinge section and two more heavy boom/jib sections headed to the launch site a little while back on LabPadre's cam.

Yeah I just saw Mary's latest photos and it's definitely getting a luffing jib.  I had always sorta figured that they were going to go with one given how big the counterweight setup they went with is.  Now we know for sure!

Offline chopsticks

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Just noticed that some of the tower sections lying on the ground at the gas well site have holes at the top on one side. Perhaps they will be filled with concrete in increments of 3 or 4?

Edit: Actually it looks like the holes are at the bottom of each section, not at the top.
« Last Edit: 05/28/2021 04:46 am by chopsticks »

Offline russianhalo117

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Not about the crane, but I'm wondering about the concrete that will go in the launch tower tubes. How high will they go before they start pouring concrete inside? How high can they go?
That depends on the number of pumps. Just think <7,000ft deep shafts at the Resolution Copper Mine with their many levels of pumping stations.

Offline Lars-J

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SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 11
« Reply #9 on: 05/28/2021 05:58 am »
Just noticed that some of the tower sections lying on the ground at the gas well site have holes at the top on one side. Perhaps they will be filled with concrete in increments of 3 or 4?

Edit: Actually it looks like the holes are at the bottom of each section, not at the top.

Since you are not linking to a post/image I am not 100% sure what holes you are referring to, but if it is the wholes I think you mean, those holes are for worker access to fasten the internal bolts tying down the section. (There are both external and internal bolts it seems)

Some speculate that those openings may be used to also fill the corner with concrete but that is yet to be determined.
« Last Edit: 05/28/2021 06:01 am by Lars-J »

Offline SeaRaven

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 11
« Reply #10 on: 05/28/2021 11:57 am »
Not about the crane, but I'm wondering about the concrete that will go in the launch tower tubes. How high will they go before they start pouring concrete inside? How high can they go?

Concrete will go in as soon as the last stage is landed.  The guys want a bit of flexibility fitting the tower columns. After that the tower needs to be stiffened, to reduce bending and torsion.  Concrete is the cheapest way.  It could have been post tensioned, but that's time consuming, and subject to corrosion over time in the humid Texan seasons. (memories of Arecibo)
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Offline chopsticks

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 11
« Reply #11 on: 05/28/2021 01:13 pm »
These are the holes I'm referring to. Sorry, I should have attached them to my earlier message.

Are these holes used for something else in the meanwhile? They look a bit small for worker access, but I have a hard time judging scale from here. I was just thinking that perhaps concrete might be pumped inside, section by section once the tower is complete. Also good point above about wanting everything tightened down first before pouring concrete.

Pictures from Mary and RGV's flyover video
« Last Edit: 05/28/2021 01:14 pm by chopsticks »

Offline Nomadd

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 11
« Reply #12 on: 05/28/2021 02:09 pm »
Not about the crane, but I'm wondering about the concrete that will go in the launch tower tubes. How high will they go before they start pouring concrete inside? How high can they go?
They pump concrete for 1500 foot skyscrapers all the time.
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Offline chopsticks

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 11
« Reply #13 on: 05/28/2021 02:40 pm »
Not about the crane, but I'm wondering about the concrete that will go in the launch tower tubes. How high will they go before they start pouring concrete inside? How high can they go?
They pump concrete for 1500 foot skyscrapers all the time.

Is this usually or always pumped up from the bottom or dropped down from the top? If it's dropped down from the top, that's a long ways for concrete to fall, no?

Sorry if this is a stupid question, I don't know a lot about pumping concrete.

Offline AU1.52

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 11
« Reply #14 on: 05/28/2021 02:50 pm »
Not about the crane, but I'm wondering about the concrete that will go in the launch tower tubes. How high will they go before they start pouring concrete inside? How high can they go?
They pump concrete for 1500 foot skyscrapers all the time.

Is this usually or always pumped up from the bottom or dropped down from the top? If it's dropped down from the top, that's a long ways for concrete to fall, no?

Sorry if this is a stupid question, I don't know a lot about pumping concrete.


I would think they would pump it in stages to insure there are no air voids. However gravity maybe enough to ensure there are no voids. No signs they were planning on pumping concrete down after the first 2 stages were complete.


Did some research. Apparently it is best to avoid free fall of concrete as it can result on the fine and coarse aggregates in the concrete to separate.  If they do not start adding concrete soon, they may not at all.

Ref: https://www.structuralguide.com/concrete-pouring/

Quote
Free Fall Height : Different guidelines provide different ranges. In general, it is 3 to 5 feets. Technically, it is advisable as much as possible to avoid free fall of concrete to avoid seggregation.
« Last Edit: 05/28/2021 02:59 pm by AU1.52 »

Offline Barnalby

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 11
« Reply #15 on: 05/28/2021 02:57 pm »
If they've got holes in the beams to pump the concrete into they'll probably pump it in stages, tower segments by tower segment.  Concrete is perfectly happy falling 20 or 30 feet when being placed, and they can always drop placement hoses down the holes if they don't want it to fall too far.

I'll bet they don't pump the concrete until the tower is fully complete, as it will almost certainly settle a fair bit (relatively speaking) as the rest of the tower segments are added.  Although if they add concrete as they built it and let it get compressed by the steel contracting as more and more weight is added to it the structure might behave like an inside-out post-tensioned structure.  It's all a matter of what they want the tower to do and why they're adding the concrete in the first place.

Offline AU1.52

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 11
« Reply #16 on: 05/28/2021 03:03 pm »
If they've got holes in the beams to pump the concrete into they'll probably pump it in stages, tower segments by tower segment.  Concrete is perfectly happy falling 20 or 30 feet when being placed, and they can always drop placement hoses down the holes if they don't want it to fall too far.

I'll bet they don't pump the concrete until the tower is fully complete, as it will almost certainly settle a fair bit (relatively speaking) as the rest of the tower segments are added.  Although if they add concrete as they built it and let it get compressed by the steel contracting as more and more weight is added to it the structure might behave like an inside-out post-tensioned structure.  It's all a matter of what they want the tower to do and why they're adding the concrete in the first place.


Ah. So the 'small' holes we are no seeing could be the inlet hole to pump the concrete in. The would make sense. Yes it would make sense to wait until the whole structure is in place before pumping due to the steel compression.

Offline cdebuhr

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 11
« Reply #17 on: 05/28/2021 03:12 pm »
Cryo Shell #1 is on the move.

Source: LabPadre Sentinel Cam

Offline AstroDave

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 11
« Reply #18 on: 05/28/2021 03:14 pm »
  Based on photos from ‘BC-Production Updates’ and most recent daily update video some upper level beams have been removed from the remaining tower section (#4) at the gas well site. No one likes having to pull something apart that was recently put together, so does anyone know what is going on with this operation?

  Also, in the photo linked below, one can see that the large horizontal beam being removed has spacer plates that fit between it and the securing plates on the vertical tower sections. I was very surprised to see this. I had been assuming (always dangerous) that the large horizontal and diagonal beams were the same size of I-beam, but it is now obvious that there is a size difference. The horizontals have a narrower web compared to the diagonals. Does any one have some engineering insights into why this may be the case?

Link to post with photo being referenced above, (_DSC 8362 (2).JPG) is third in the series:
Removing beams from the third tower section that was erected at the propellant production site.

Offline waveney

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 11
« Reply #19 on: 05/28/2021 03:42 pm »
  Based on photos from ‘BC-Production Updates’ and most recent daily update video some upper level beams have been removed from the remaining tower section (#4) at the gas well site. No one likes having to pull something apart that was recently put together, so does anyone know what is going on with this operation?

My guess is they are changing from a structural set of beams to the beams for a proper floor (as at the top of the first section).

 

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