Author Topic: NASA ISS Commercialization  (Read 33354 times)

Online Robotbeat

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Re: NASA ISS Commercialization
« Reply #120 on: 09/15/2022 07:15 pm »
NASA is now saying that private astronaut EVAs at the ISS will not be permitted. Hurray for ISS commercialization! I guess Axiom will have to find retired NASA astronauts to test their Artemis spacesuits. Or maybe conduct the spacesuit tests from a free-flying Dragon. Or just wing it and have the Artemis 3 crew try them out in space for the first time on the Moon. It's not like we've heard anything substantial from NASA about spacesuit testing. Seems like a bunch of sour grapes Polaris envy.
That’s nuts and totally inconsistent with desire to make ISS more commercial. Do you have a link? It does seem like NASA is kind of going in two directions at once… announcing initiatives to expand private spaceflight and then the next week announcing some new restriction that reduces private space cooperation. What is even going no, here?

A side note, but I’m often kind of frustrated that any non-government human spaceflight is couched in mercantilist/commercialist language. Like, maybe there are non-profits or other organizations that would like to pursue spaceflight? Maybe people want to enable human spaceflight without just trying to earn money as the ultimate end-goal?

Wish NASA would improve the language there.
« Last Edit: 09/15/2022 07:18 pm by Robotbeat »
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline whitelancer64

Re: NASA ISS Commercialization
« Reply #121 on: 09/15/2022 07:37 pm »
NASA is now saying that private astronaut EVAs at the ISS will not be permitted. Hurray for ISS commercialization! I guess Axiom will have to find retired NASA astronauts to test their Artemis spacesuits. Or maybe conduct the spacesuit tests from a free-flying Dragon. Or just wing it and have the Artemis 3 crew try them out in space for the first time on the Moon. It's not like we've heard anything substantial from NASA about spacesuit testing. Seems like a bunch of sour grapes Polaris envy.

Citation needed for NASA not allowing private astronaut EVAs. A quick google search doesn't provide any corroboration.

WRT Axiom spacesuit testing, NASA would just fly one up on a cargo flight and have their astronauts on board the ISS test them out. That was the plan before NASA farmed out the spacesuits to commercial providers, and is still the notional plan, as far as I know.
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Offline whitelancer64

Re: NASA ISS Commercialization
« Reply #122 on: 09/15/2022 09:15 pm »

I found a brief mention here: https://spacenews.com/nasa-requests-proposals-for-two-iss-private-astronaut-missions/

"NASA also noted in the procurement that proposed missions seeking to conduct a spacewalk by private astronauts “will not be considered allowable.” It’s unclear if any companies were actively considering spacewalks on private missions."

This is specifically about the PAM 3 and 4 solicitation for 2023 and 2024. It is not a general prohibition on spacewalk proposals for all future private astronaut missions.
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
"There are lies, damned lies, and launch schedules." - Larry J

Offline Tomness

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Re: NASA ISS Commercialization
« Reply #123 on: 09/15/2022 10:00 pm »

I found a brief mention here: https://spacenews.com/nasa-requests-proposals-for-two-iss-private-astronaut-missions/

"NASA also noted in the procurement that proposed missions seeking to conduct a spacewalk by private astronauts “will not be considered allowable.” It’s unclear if any companies were actively considering spacewalks on private missions."

This is specifically about the PAM 3 and 4 solicitation for 2023 and 2024. It is not a general prohibition on spacewalk proposals for all future private astronaut missions.

Pretty much bared by NASA for ISS, So Axiom and who ever will have to do it on their own stations.

Offline AnalogMan

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Re: NASA ISS Commercialization
« Reply #124 on: 09/15/2022 10:38 pm »
NASA is now saying that private astronaut EVAs at the ISS will not be permitted. Hurray for ISS commercialization! I guess Axiom will have to find retired NASA astronauts to test their Artemis spacesuits. Or maybe conduct the spacesuit tests from a free-flying Dragon. Or just wing it and have the Artemis 3 crew try them out in space for the first time on the Moon. It's not like we've heard anything substantial from NASA about spacesuit testing. Seems like a bunch of sour grapes Polaris envy.

Citation needed for NASA not allowing private astronaut EVAs. A quick google search doesn't provide any corroboration.
[...]

NASA posted an updated version of the "Research Opportunities for ISS Utilization" yesterday

(see this nspires link for the link to the document]

PAM 3 & 4 announcement made at https://sam.gov/opp/afa5ea56ad064f1e8c81bbd817a65144/view

On page 31 of the new document:

Focus Area 4A.1 – Solicitation for Private Astronaut Missions’ Provider for Flight Opportunity

NASA is soliciting proposals for Phase II of Focus Area 4A for the following flight opportunities:

- “PAM 3”: expected launch window of NET late 2023 through mid-2024
- “PAM 4”: expected launch window of NET mid 2024 through end of 2024

The maximum number of private astronauts per mission shall not exceed four (4), and the maximum planned docked duration shall not exceed fourteen (14) days. Mission concepts which include Extravehicular Activities (EVAs) performed by the Private Astronauts will not be considered allowable.


Copy of updated NASA Research Announcement (NRA) attached.

Offline yg1968

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Re: NASA ISS Commercialization
« Reply #125 on: 09/15/2022 10:39 pm »
As I indicated in the post linked below, it's possible that Axiom's proposal for PAM-2 proposed an EVA and that NASA refused that part of their proposal (i.e., Axiom had to withdraw it):
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48301.msg2398318#msg2398318

NASA said in the Ax-1 Prelaunch Press Conference below that they weren't ready to allow EVAs on ISS private astronaut missions for now and they explained why. It's at 57 minutes of this video (the best questions are often last):

« Last Edit: 09/16/2022 01:49 am by yg1968 »

Offline AnalogMan

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Re: NASA ISS Commercialization
« Reply #126 on: 09/19/2022 11:57 pm »
NASA posted presentation slides from the PAM 3 & 4 pre-proposal conference today, along with a short Q&A document (copies attached)

Private Astronaut Mission Flight Opportunities for 2023 and 2024
Notice ID: 80JSC022PAM2023and2024
Updated: Sep 19, 2022

https://sam.gov/opp/99d3383562b4496781c8eadf6408ee9a/view

(probably little that we didn't know already)


Online Robotbeat

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Re: NASA ISS Commercialization
« Reply #127 on: 09/20/2022 12:36 am »
As I indicated in the post linked below, it's possible that Axiom's proposal for PAM-2 proposed an EVA and that NASA refused that part of their proposal (i.e., Axiom had to withdraw it):
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48301.msg2398318#msg2398318

NASA said in the Ax-1 Prelaunch Press Conference below that they weren't ready to allow EVAs on ISS private astronaut missions for now and they explained why. It's at 57 minutes of this video (the best questions are often last):


I believe this is different from the current explanation.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Online Robotbeat

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Re: NASA ISS Commercialization
« Reply #128 on: 09/20/2022 01:17 pm »
Is there any place I can watch or listen to the pre-solicitation conference that happened on the 16th of September?
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline yg1968

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Re: NASA ISS Commercialization
« Reply #129 on: 09/20/2022 01:32 pm »
Is there any place I can watch or listen to the pre-solicitation conference that happened on the 16th of September?

It's not public but the slides are available here (attached).

Offline yg1968

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Re: NASA ISS Commercialization
« Reply #130 on: 09/20/2022 01:34 pm »
A Q&A was also posted yesterday (attached).

Offline yg1968

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Re: NASA ISS Commercialization
« Reply #131 on: 09/22/2022 02:44 pm »
Emirati astronaut set for six-month mission to International Space Station:
https://www.thenationalnews.com/uae/science/2022/04/29/emirati-astronaut-set-for-six-month-mission-to-international-space-station/

This has probably been posted elsewhere but the astronaut for the 6 month UAE mission was selected in late July (the UAE is paying Axiom for a seat on SpaceX Crew-6):

https://twitter.com/SarwatNasir/status/1551524370429919232
« Last Edit: 09/22/2022 02:48 pm by yg1968 »

Offline yg1968

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Re: NASA ISS Commercialization
« Reply #132 on: 09/22/2022 02:47 pm »
Turkey will send its first astronaut to space through a private Axiom mission:

https://twitter.com/SarwatNasir/status/1571862393981992962
« Last Edit: 09/22/2022 02:57 pm by yg1968 »

Offline yg1968

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Re: NASA ISS Commercialization
« Reply #133 on: 09/22/2022 02:56 pm »
Both the UAE and the Turkey astronauts missions are important as they show that there is a market for foreign government customers. Bigelow had claimed years ago that there was many foreign countries interested in going to space through commercial ventures and he is now being proven right by these missions. It's unfortunate that Bigelow isn't involved in these private missions but Axiom has filled the void left by Bigelow's exit from this business. However, I wish that Axiom had a competitor.
« Last Edit: 09/22/2022 03:05 pm by yg1968 »


Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: NASA ISS Commercialization
« Reply #135 on: 10/08/2022 11:35 am »
Axiom-1’s Commander on ISS commercialisation:

twitter.com/commandermla/status/1578402760646696961

Quote
I understand selling access to the #ISS is anathema to many, it is an imperative step toward building the demand that commercial platform providers need to close their business case. (1/2)

https://twitter.com/commandermla/status/1578402762471112705

Quote
Otherwise the enterprise will fail and our access to low Earth orbit, and all the opportunities to be found there, will end with it. (2/2)

Offline yg1968

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Re: NASA ISS Commercialization
« Reply #136 on: 10/12/2022 03:25 pm »
Tom Cruise plans to film a movie in space — and could be the first civilian to do a spacewalk:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tom-cruise-film-movie-in-space/

Offline yg1968

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Re: NASA ISS Commercialization
« Reply #137 on: 10/12/2022 03:38 pm »
Tom Cruise plans to film a movie in space — and could be the first civilian to do a spacewalk:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tom-cruise-film-movie-in-space/

Commenting on my own post. It seems that for now, private astronaut spacewalks at the ISS aren't allowed. However, a private astronaut could do a spacewalk prior to getting to the ISS (similar to the spacewalk on the Polaris 1 mission). It seems that private astronaut spacewalk may have to wait for the Axiom spacesuits and habitat to be ready. 

Offline yg1968

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Re: NASA ISS Commercialization
« Reply #138 on: 11/01/2022 04:21 pm »
Quote from: Jeff Foust
NASA confirms that the two people yet to be named on the upcoming Ax-2 private astronaut mission will be from Saudi Arabia. Names not released, but it appears they have already been selected and have started training.

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1587450126758445056

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