Author Topic: Developing the BFS - Phase 1 Big Falcon Hopper (BFH) Discussion - THREAD 2  (Read 535025 times)

Offline DistantTemple

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SpaceX will need water access for big stuff at Boca Chica - they must have plans for a pier and possibly breakwater at coast of end of Boca Chica Blvd next to their facility.
>

Covered; a road is to be built between the harbor and Highway 4, which runs next to the SpaceX facilities.

Link...
Not by June.
 They might make it down 511. There are about 40 power lines crossing the road, but all low voltage. It would just take a little work on the corner lot to cut the corner onto Hwy 4.
 As with a lot of things, people tend to greatly underestimate what a pier would entail here.
Companies that move large infrastructure, construct temporary landings, and use barges and pontoons to ferry their fare. I was thinking they could transport a complete SS prototype assuming it was horizontal, on a barge and literally dry it out on the beach between tides. A temporary roadway of heavy timbers and steel sheet would be laid down used and removed between tides to drive an SPMT vehicle carrying the SS onto the road.
However this would be expensive.... but SX has the drone ships, with positioning thrusters.... Would EM  decide SX could do this themselves on the cheap? Even if the drone ships are not suitable, a barge must be easy to acquire. SX are familiar with tugs etc. 
We can always grow new new dendrites. Reach out and make connections and your world will burst with new insights. Then repose in consciousness.

Offline dnavas

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Companies that move large infrastructure, construct temporary landings, and use barges and pontoons to ferry their fare.

Why not just rent a hovercraft?

Offline RonM

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SpaceX will need water access for big stuff at Boca Chica - they must have plans for a pier and possibly breakwater at coast of end of Boca Chica Blvd next to their facility.
>

Covered; a road is to be built between the harbor and Highway 4, which runs next to the SpaceX facilities.

Link...
Not by June.
 They might make it down 511. There are about 40 power lines crossing the road, but all low voltage. It would just take a little work on the corner lot to cut the corner onto Hwy 4.
 As with a lot of things, people tend to greatly underestimate what a pier would entail here.
Companies that move large infrastructure, construct temporary landings, and use barges and pontoons to ferry their fare. I was thinking they could transport a complete SS prototype assuming it was horizontal, on a barge and literally dry it out on the beach between tides. A temporary roadway of heavy timbers and steel sheet would be laid down used and removed between tides to drive an SPMT vehicle carrying the SS onto the road.
However this would be expensive.... but SX has the drone ships, with positioning thrusters.... Would EM  decide SX could do this themselves on the cheap? Even if the drone ships are not suitable, a barge must be easy to acquire. SX are familiar with tugs etc.

I don't that is happening. It's a public beach. They would need an environmental impact study and approval before doing work on the beach. I don't think SpaceX wants to wait a few years before they can conduct an amphibious landing.

Online docmordrid

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I would think hovercraft and SeaBee style operations on the beach would require an amended EA, get the greenies upset and start a flood of court filings.
« Last Edit: 01/15/2019 01:11 am by docmordrid »
DM

Offline DistantTemple

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Companies that move large infrastructure, construct temporary landings, and use barges and pontoons to ferry their fare.

Why not just rent a hovercraft?
Someone email Elon.... I bet there's and army surplus one around  somewhere!  Absolutely perfect idea!!!!!

Its not like they will be brining in barges and hovercraft every week or month - well not at first. And if this is theoretically temporary until the road gets built.... And isn't Brownsville gagging for the sort of lift SX has given McGregor?
We can always grow new new dendrites. Reach out and make connections and your world will burst with new insights. Then repose in consciousness.

Offline Warby12

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SpaceX will need water access for big stuff at Boca Chica - they must have plans for a pier and possibly breakwater at coast of end of Boca Chica Blvd next to their facility.
>

Covered; a road is to be built between the harbor and Highway 4, which runs next to the SpaceX facilities.

Link...
Not by June.
 They might make it down 511. There are about 40 power lines crossing the road, but all low voltage. It would just take a little work on the corner lot to cut the corner onto Hwy 4.
 As with a lot of things, people tend to greatly underestimate what a pier would entail here.
Companies that move large infrastructure, construct temporary landings, and use barges and pontoons to ferry their fare. I was thinking they could transport a complete SS prototype assuming it was horizontal, on a barge and literally dry it out on the beach between tides. A temporary roadway of heavy timbers and steel sheet would be laid down used and removed between tides to drive an SPMT vehicle carrying the SS onto the road.
However this would be expensive.... but SX has the drone ships, with positioning thrusters.... Would EM  decide SX could do this themselves on the cheap? Even if the drone ships are not suitable, a barge must be easy to acquire. SX are familiar with tugs etc.

Possible  I bet, but I don't think I would want my beautiful spaceship nudged against the beach in hurricane season.

Offline envy887

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One large issue from the perspective of anything being build of the BFR scale away from Boca Chick is how does it get to the site. Nomadd, could you weigh in if the existing roadways from the Port of Brownsville could accommodate a 9m diameter object - possibly with some temporary power line removal, etc, or is it not realistic without the new roadway?


If not realistic then don't count on seeing a higher fidelity craft showing up before that roadway has been built...

The Orbital testing version of BFR/Starship will be launched from Cape Canaveral, and will most likely use the same method as transporting the Saturn V components, via sea barges.
Welcome, but...
That is your highly speculative opinion and should be labeled as such. Unless you're an insider, which has not been established.

That is where SpaceX has shown it launching from, in both 2016 and 2017 archeticture animations, and in the dearmoon presentation. The dearmoon flight plan graphic shows launch from Florida.

Any other launch site is highly speculative. The Cape is the only one we know for sure that SpaceX is thinking about using.
Actually, at about 1:19 in the DearMoon presentation he specifically says that they haven't decided on where the first orbital launches will be from. And the only specific mention he makes at that time is of a floating platform, without specifying where that platform might or might not be located.

 
Yes, that is consistent with what I said.

Offline IntoTheVoid

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Any other launch site is highly speculative. The Cape is the only one we know for sure that SpaceX is thinking about using.
Actually, at about 1:19 in the DearMoon presentation he specifically says that they haven't decided on where the first orbital launches will be from. And the only specific mention he makes at that time is of a floating platform, without specifying where that platform might or might not be located.

 
Yes, that is consistent with what I said.
No, you presented the cape as non-speculative, which the video refutes.

Offline ngkiwi

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This is pure speculation:  The orbital BFH is assembled and launched at Vandenberg Air Force Base.  It deorbits and lands at Boca Chica.

I am picking transportation, logistics, desire, delta v, deorbiting over populated areas to name a few would rule it out, however, it could also be a first step in proving the SS as an intercity travel system

Offline Lars-J

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Responding to a post in the update thread:

Looking later picture and Videos

I starting to have doubts about this Starhopper purpose

1. it's not build by SpaceX it self, but by a company that build Water-towers 
2. Starhopper is build right next to Mission control center at Boca Chica, too close for flight test
3. were is the launch-pad, fuel tanks and landing-pad for that thing ?
4. this thing stand dangerous close to town of Boca Chica for start and landing

Personal i think Starhopper is merely a water-tower with capacity of 1600 m^3 at Mission control
and Elon Musk is mess around with fandom...
Have you completely missed the launch and landing area? It was noted in the video above your post.

The hopper will be moved there before it flies. But it is waiting for the interior to be fitted out (tanks and engines), and for the pad to be done. Musk has said it should be ready in a month. Why is that so hard to believe?

Offline QuantumG

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Pet peeve, people keep talking about "tanks" being "installed inside". That big shiny thing you see in front of you, that is the tanks. Those big dome things, they're bits that separate the propellants and stop them from falling out the bottom. I wouldn't be surprised if those engines we can see are what will get this monster off the ground, too.
« Last Edit: 01/15/2019 07:47 am by QuantumG »
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline Lars-J

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Pet peeve, people keep talking about "tanks" being "installed inside". That big shiny thing you see in front of you, that is the tanks. Those big dome things, they're bits that separate the propellants and stop them from falling out the bottom. I wouldn't be surprised if those engines we can see are what will get this monster off the ground, too.

Good point about the "tanks".

But unless Elon is lying or mistaken, he has said it will get new/real engines. Also, see image... That engine will not be fired. You do not expose the nozzle cooling channel inlets to a dusty environment on an engine you plan to use. (see image)

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1081572521105707009
« Last Edit: 01/15/2019 07:05 am by Lars-J »

Offline jpo234

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Pet peeve, people keep talking about "tanks" being "installed inside". That big shiny thing you see in front of you, that is the tanks. Those big dome things, they're bits that separate the propellants and stop them from falling out the bottom. I wouldn't be surprised if those engines we can see are what will get this monster off the ground, too.

Completely agree about the tanks.
I'm a lot less sure about the engines. With the hopper integrated and the crane gone, the only way to add the bulkhead is through the bottom. And that would mean that they have to remove everything that is currently installed there. And since Musk said that the flight engines will undergo testing in McGregor this month, I believe that the currently installed engines will be replaced with the real things over the next few weeks.
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Offline Rei

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So, they're taking off the cosmetic panels that covered the seam between segments on the "photo" side now. Wouldn't be surprised if they separate the two portions today.  If so, we'll hopefully see bulkhead installation get started over the next several days.  Then the bottom portion will genuinely be "tanks"  ;)

At some point - personally - I expect them to install a dummy payload inside the upper portion.  Just so photographs can give the payload volume a sense of scale.
« Last Edit: 01/15/2019 03:11 pm by Rei »

Offline JonathanD

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Well if they install the tanks bulkheads before getting the new engines that will be illuminating.  Not sure how easy it will be to work on it while it's vertical, they are so used to horizontal work on F9s.
« Last Edit: 01/15/2019 03:51 pm by JonathanD »

Offline Cheapchips

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Well if they install the tanks bulkheads before getting the new engines that will be illuminating.  Not sure how easy it will be to work on it while it's vertical, they are so used to horizontal work on F9s.

I'm sure part of the hopper's purpose is to give them plenty of practical experience with vertical work.

As pointed out a while back, there's a wield heating line where the bottom bulkhead would be (now covered with tin foil).  It's possible they only need to install the top and tank dividers once they've lifted the hat off.
« Last Edit: 01/15/2019 07:28 pm by Cheapchips »

Online Johnnyhinbos

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I know it is not the best photo but I caught it being moved.
So they picked up a scissor lift and are moving it somewhere. Typically for external stuff they've used boom lifts, so it's a bit odd they are craning around a scissor lift. BocaChicaGal, did you see where they dropped it?
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Offline acsawdey

I know it is not the best photo but I caught it being moved.
So they picked up a scissor lift and are moving it somewhere. Typically for external stuff they've used boom lifts, so it's a bit odd they are craning around a scissor lift. BocaChicaGal, did you see where they dropped it?

Is this the scissors lift that we inferred was inside the hopper but haven't actually seen until now?

Offline bocachicagal

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I know it is not the best photo but I caught it being moved.
So they picked up a scissor lift and are moving it somewhere. Typically for external stuff they've used boom lifts, so it's a bit odd they are craning around a scissor lift. BocaChicaGal, did you see where they dropped it?
I did not see where they set it down as I was too far away. I can visually see one inside the concrete base. Looks like the Hopper is being separated.
My name is NOT Maria. My name IS Mary.

Offline bocachicagal

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I know it is not the best photo but I caught it being moved.
So they picked up a scissor lift and are moving it somewhere. Typically for external stuff they've used boom lifts, so it's a bit odd they are craning around a scissor lift. BocaChicaGal, did you see where they dropped it?
I did not see where they set it down as I was too far away. I can visually see one inside the concrete base. Looks like the Hopper is being separated.
Nosecone and bottom section has been separated.
My name is NOT Maria. My name IS Mary.

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