Quote from: NGC 4258 on 01/05/2019 02:47 pmAs seen in photos thread, an official render of the completed BFH.Can anybody do some Kremlinology what the lack of a SpaceX logo means? Thinking SLS here...Basically: That's not a SpaceX rocket, that's an American rocket...
As seen in photos thread, an official render of the completed BFH.
Third link doesn't exist.
Quote from: AbuSimbel on 01/05/2019 03:11 pmQuote from: Johnnyhinbos on 01/05/2019 03:02 pmQuote from: AbuSimbel on 01/05/2019 02:58 pmhttps://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1081572521105707009https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1081575156990894082Am I the only one that doesn't know how interpret these tweets together?How can they expect to do flight tests in a month (or even 2) if the 'first hopper engine to be fired ... probably fires next month'?Also I still don't understand from Elon's answer if the Raptors already mounted on the hopper are working engines or not.My takeaway (and for me it’s clear, but obviously subjective) is he used “engines” not bells, nozzles, or mockups, so those are actual engines mounted in there. However because they’ve changed materials (SX500 stainless steel for example) and potentially other things on a new iteration that has yet to be fired, they may not be the actual flight engines used for hopping.So if they want to fly the hopper in 1-2 months is it possible they intend to forgo acceptance testing of the engines on a test stand?Elon mentioned test firing next month, so gives four weeks after potential initial test fire to qualify and install in the BFH and still make the 8 week window. Conversely could do initial hop tests using installed engines as I would guess the plumbing connections etc would mostly stay the same.
Quote from: Johnnyhinbos on 01/05/2019 03:02 pmQuote from: AbuSimbel on 01/05/2019 02:58 pmhttps://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1081572521105707009https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1081575156990894082Am I the only one that doesn't know how interpret these tweets together?How can they expect to do flight tests in a month (or even 2) if the 'first hopper engine to be fired ... probably fires next month'?Also I still don't understand from Elon's answer if the Raptors already mounted on the hopper are working engines or not.My takeaway (and for me it’s clear, but obviously subjective) is he used “engines” not bells, nozzles, or mockups, so those are actual engines mounted in there. However because they’ve changed materials (SX500 stainless steel for example) and potentially other things on a new iteration that has yet to be fired, they may not be the actual flight engines used for hopping.So if they want to fly the hopper in 1-2 months is it possible they intend to forgo acceptance testing of the engines on a test stand?
Quote from: AbuSimbel on 01/05/2019 02:58 pmhttps://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1081572521105707009https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1081575156990894082Am I the only one that doesn't know how interpret these tweets together?How can they expect to do flight tests in a month (or even 2) if the 'first hopper engine to be fired ... probably fires next month'?Also I still don't understand from Elon's answer if the Raptors already mounted on the hopper are working engines or not.My takeaway (and for me it’s clear, but obviously subjective) is he used “engines” not bells, nozzles, or mockups, so those are actual engines mounted in there. However because they’ve changed materials (SX500 stainless steel for example) and potentially other things on a new iteration that has yet to be fired, they may not be the actual flight engines used for hopping.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1081572521105707009https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1081575156990894082Am I the only one that doesn't know how interpret these tweets together?How can they expect to do flight tests in a month (or even 2) if the 'first hopper engine to be fired ... probably fires next month'?Also I still don't understand from Elon's answer if the Raptors already mounted on the hopper are working engines or not.
Quote from: jpo234 on 01/05/2019 02:58 pmQuote from: NGC 4258 on 01/05/2019 02:47 pmAs seen in photos thread, an official render of the completed BFH.Can anybody do some Kremlinology what the lack of a SpaceX logo means? Thinking SLS here...Basically: That's not a SpaceX rocket, that's an American rocket...This is a good observation, kind of strange to only have the flag there. But it could be for aesthetics reasons, the red/white color of the flag is well contrasted against the silver body, but SpaceX's blue and gray color may look less impressive.
Conversely could do initial hop tests using installed engines as I would guess the plumbing connections etc would mostly stay the same.
Another possibility, they can use these Franken-engines for some tests (maybe even hops), but not at full thrust:
Quote from: Johnnyhinbos on 01/05/2019 03:15 pmConversely could do initial hop tests using installed engines as I would guess the plumbing connections etc would mostly stay the same.Quote from: lonestriker on 01/05/2019 03:56 pmAnother possibility, they can use these Franken-engines for some tests (maybe even hops), but not at full thrust:As many have quoted already, Elon said "First hopper engine to be fired is ... in California", therefore the engines currently in Boca Chica won't be fired.
Quote from: NGC 4258 on 01/05/2019 02:47 pmAs seen in photos thread, an official render of the completed BFH.Is this known to be an official render or is it a fan render that he liked? There seem to be some marked differences with the legs. The current fin material seems to be in the middle of the leg triangle, not wrapping it.
Quote from: Johnnyhinbos on 01/05/2019 03:15 pmQuote from: AbuSimbel on 01/05/2019 03:11 pmQuote from: Johnnyhinbos on 01/05/2019 03:02 pmQuote from: AbuSimbel on 01/05/2019 02:58 pmhttps://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1081572521105707009https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1081575156990894082Am I the only one that doesn't know how interpret these tweets together?How can they expect to do flight tests in a month (or even 2) if the 'first hopper engine to be fired ... probably fires next month'?Also I still don't understand from Elon's answer if the Raptors already mounted on the hopper are working engines or not.My takeaway (and for me it’s clear, but obviously subjective) is he used “engines” not bells, nozzles, or mockups, so those are actual engines mounted in there. However because they’ve changed materials (SX500 stainless steel for example) and potentially other things on a new iteration that has yet to be fired, they may not be the actual flight engines used for hopping.So if they want to fly the hopper in 1-2 months is it possible they intend to forgo acceptance testing of the engines on a test stand?Elon mentioned test firing next month, so gives four weeks after potential initial test fire to qualify and install in the BFH and still make the 8 week window. Conversely could do initial hop tests using installed engines as I would guess the plumbing connections etc would mostly stay the same.Another possibility, they can use these Franken-engines for some tests (maybe even hops), but not at full thrust:"I met someone tonight who worked at SpaceX and she said they are real raptors on there but not full thrust."https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/acm8sj/whats_going_on_with_spacexs_stainless_steel/ed9u3oc/Can always swap the engines out later for final production versions when ready.
Quote from: Johnnyhinbos on 01/05/2019 03:02 pmQuote from: AbuSimbel on 01/05/2019 02:58 pmhttps://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1081572521105707009https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1081575156990894082Am I the only one that doesn't know how interpret these tweets together?How can they expect to do flight tests in a month (or even 2) if the 'first hopper engine to be fired ... probably fires next month'?Also I still don't understand from Elon's answer if the Raptors already mounted on the hopper are working engines or not.My takeaway (and for me it’s clear, but obviously subjective) is he used “engines” not bells, nozzles, or mockups, so those are actual engines mounted in there. However because they’ve changed materials (SX500 stainless steel for example) and potentially other things on a new iteration that has yet to be fired, they may not be the actual flight engines used for hopping.So if they want to fly the hopper in 1-2 months is it possible they intend to forgo acceptance testing of the engines on a test stand?Edit: or maybe they're going to use just a single engine at first as su27k suggested...
I will do a full technical presentation of Starship after the test vehicle we’re building in Texas flies, so hopefully March/April
i mean, we know they have working raptors... there's video, right? maybe they will do static fires and short hops with the prototype engines before swapping out for the flight engines when they're ready?
Replying to something from thread 1:Quote from: RobLynn on 01/05/2019 06:53 amQuoteDo you think that for the production Starship they will return to FSW? Supposedly it delivers welds on stainless with better high temperature properties than more prosaic welding techniques. No, for FSW you need to use a much harder tougher metal as the stirring tool, and as hard and tough as Stainless steel becomes when cold-worked there really aren't any viable materials.If you want to go that route then ultrasonic welding (rubbing metal on metal at ~10-20kHz ~0.001mm oscillation) is the way to go. Doesn't ruin the strength of the cold-worked (tough and hard) stainless being welded like MIG or TIG or laser welding does.No, tungsten carbide is many times harder than stainless steel and is a common FSW tool material. It'll FSW stainless just fine. And toughness of the tool material is of little relevance. I think where the difficulty comes in in FSWing this would be that stainless requires higher forces and because of the scale BFR very long structural members in the FSW apparatus (arms, gantries etc, however they would choose to do it) woud be needed to reach the areas being welded so a very large beefy machine would be needed. But dooable it seems if that's the chosen path.
QuoteDo you think that for the production Starship they will return to FSW? Supposedly it delivers welds on stainless with better high temperature properties than more prosaic welding techniques. No, for FSW you need to use a much harder tougher metal as the stirring tool, and as hard and tough as Stainless steel becomes when cold-worked there really aren't any viable materials.If you want to go that route then ultrasonic welding (rubbing metal on metal at ~10-20kHz ~0.001mm oscillation) is the way to go. Doesn't ruin the strength of the cold-worked (tough and hard) stainless being welded like MIG or TIG or laser welding does.
Do you think that for the production Starship they will return to FSW? Supposedly it delivers welds on stainless with better high temperature properties than more prosaic welding techniques.
Here's my take (cross-posted from the photo thread) on what the hopper would look like if assembled in it's current form. This isn't taking into account if they decide to fully enclose the legs, fill in the vents, add shocks to the legs or buff up the lower section to match the nose and tanks.