Bigelow Aerospace Update and Discussion Thread (4)

[Prettz]

No mock ups of the interior, so maybe they're still trying to figure out what it would look like? I'm trying to imagine how that would work out with gravity and this thing laying on its side.

[brickmack]

Details on how it actually gets to the surface not provided...

...

EDIT: wait looks like tanks and engines on 2 modules....
So the intent is a modular assembled habitat/lander?

Yes. This concept is basically unchanged from what they showed in powerpoints 3-5 years ago. The whole thing docks together in LEO, and the propulsion modules (and expendable departure stages) get it all the way to the surface. Don't ask me how they expect to put that much force perpendicular to the docking ports...

[russianhalo117]

https://twitter.com/BigelowSpace/status/1135583105924755456

https://twitter.com/BigelowSpace/status/1135583452961464320

Details on how it actually gets to the surface not provided...

The only 2 vehicles that could come close to making this happen are XEUS and Starship.  XEUS is shelved, I think since I don't know what Masten is proposing for a lander now. Inflatables really have a minimal benefit with Starship, with the cargo door openings not being super well definded right now.

This looks cool and all but it doesn't have me excited. Seems like a product that is way ahead of the potential market and a distraction from Bigelow growong and developing as a legitimate company.

EDIT: wait looks like tanks and engines on 2 modules....
So the intent is a modular assembled habitat/lander?

XEUS is still ongoing but sort of on the backburner as they await their Centaur V stage (will receive a qualification stage for ground testing) and later the lander version (implementation of CECE technology) of RL10C-X upgrade engine which is now the baseline engine version. The delays and switch from Centaur III to Centaur V is the latest hold up for continuation of the project and associated studies. XEUS requires ACES tech to fly lunar missions.

[GWH]

XEUS is still ongoing but sort of on the backburner as they await their Centaur V stage (will receive a qualification stage for ground testing) and later the lander version (implementation of CECE technology) of RL10C-X upgrade engine which is now the baseline engine version. The delays and switch from Centaur III to Centaur V is the latest hold up for continuation of the project and associated studies. XEUS requires ACES tech to fly lunar missions.

This isn't the thread for it but I'll repost this info.
Tory Bruno has said on the Space Show in an interview that XEUS has been shelved due to "others" working on landers. Eric Berger has posted about certain ACES elements also being shelved at Boeing's direction. Unless you have sources that say otherwise that is where things are as far as everyone on the ULA reddit knows.

ULA has really dropped their promotion of both of these, which is a pretty strange move given everything that is happening regarding NASA's current direction.

The ACES element is relevant, since launch of B330 beyond LEO depends on distributed launch with ULA, who last anyone's heard is Bigelow's launch provider.

[TrevorMonty]

ACES and distributed launch are a threat to SLS hence Boeing killing it. Both ULAs parents have lander proposals so won't allow XEUS to compete.

Bigelow best bet for ride to moon is Blue's NG.

[GWH]

This would be quite an impressive step forward if/when it happens:

https://twitter.com/BigelowSpace/status/1137012892191076353

[mainmind]

This would be quite an impressive step forward if/when it happens:

https://twitter.com/BigelowSpace/status/1137012892191076353

You beat me to this by a minute, so I deleted my post.

Doesn't this imply that there would be additional crew berths on the ISS, or can it actually accommodate an additional four crew in its current configuration? 

[rockets4life97]

Seems to me that Bigelow would need permission to attach a new module to the station to host those 4 additional crew.

[Tulse]

This announcement is confusing to me, as the new commercial rules outlined by NASA today explicitly say that only two private astronauts per year will be allowed on the ISS.  The Bigelow announcement clearly implies that it would be sending four each time (16 astronauts on 4 flights).

[birdman]

This announcement is confusing to me, as the new commercial rules outlined by NASA today explicitly say that only two private astronauts per year will be allowed on the ISS.  The Bigelow announcement clearly implies that it would be sending four each time (16 astronauts on 4 flights).

I might be wrong, but I interpreted the passage as two missions per year, not two astronauts.

"up to two short-duration private astronaut missions per year"

Meaning there could be a number of astronauts per mission, but only two missions per year.

[rockets4life97]

It seems like the next announcement from NASA should be which commercial company gets to use the available port on the ISS. If I remember correctly, weren't proposals submitted awhile ago or was there only discussion of requesting proposals? I seem to remember that Bigelow, Axiom Space, and Nanoracks had legitimate proposals.

Edit: Read this new article from the verge which answered most of my questions.

[gongora]

This announcement is confusing to me, as the new commercial rules outlined by NASA today explicitly say that only two private astronauts per year will be allowed on the ISS.  The Bigelow announcement clearly implies that it would be sending four each time (16 astronauts on 4 flights).

That page explicitly says two "missions" per year, not two astronauts.

[whitelancer64]

This would be quite an impressive step forward if/when it happens:

REMOVED TWEET

You beat me to this by a minute, so I deleted my post.

Doesn't this imply that there would be additional crew berths on the ISS, or can it actually accommodate an additional four crew in its current configuration?

I think this is a signal that Bigelow is prepared (whether or not it actually does) to win the habitat contract for NextSTEP, which would involve a demonstration mission where a mission-specific B330 called XBASE would be attached to the ISS, and the Bigelow crew would be needed to outfit it there after it is expanded.

[GWH]

My take on this was that missions wouldn't need Xbase initially.  But it's correct that the numbers would be challenging if that were the case. 2 missions x 2 astronauts, then build xbase and then 1x3 and 1x7 would work.

I would be more excited to see them fly a few to ISS as is, then build Xbase than wait for the module. Would make more business sense to build capabilities and supply incrementally... jbless Xbase is really THAT close to launch readiness (I'm skeptical).

[Arb]

Doesn't this imply that there would be additional crew berths on the ISS, or can it actually accommodate an additional four crew in its current configuration?

Visitors could be accommodated in the Dragon; shades of STS days. It has a toilet and galley if memory serves.

[yg1968]

This part of NASA's press release is relevant to Bigelow and their XBASE:

As a first step, NASA is making one space station port and utilities available for industry to attach a commercial module to support commercial activities, and today is releasing a synopsis as Appendix I in NASA’s Next Space Technologies for Exploration Partnerships (NextSTEP) 2 Broad Agency Announcement (BAA). NASA expects to release the solicitation June 14, with awards made by the end of the fiscal year. The forward port of the station’s Harmony module will be available to industry for a finite period of time.

NASA will follow up with a synopsis for NextSTEP 2 Appendix K in July to partner with industry in the development of future free-flying commercial stations in low-Earth orbit.

https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-opens-international-space-station-to-new-commercial-opportunities-private

[Lar]

So this is put up or shut up for Bigelow, it seems to me.

[TripleSeven]

we are at a time where as the old commercial goes "the rubber meets the road" for a lot of these companies...Bigelow, Axiom etc

it will be curious to see if "any" of them can actually turn viewgraphs into hardware...but if one does...then well the door might just move wide open

it is unlikely that if Bigelow or anyother provider puts up hardware that connects to the "commercial node" that "for them" at least the limitation on visits will stay in place...or the cost structure particularly if the module is such that "IT" contributes to basic ISS operation

IF it happens and it is profitable (two big ifs) then this could be the lever that 1) opens space commercialism with human flight and 2) starts finding something profitable for humans to do in space and 3) changes the very character of human spaceflight.

right now, my "bet" would be with Bigelow being the most "able" to turn viewgraphs and mockups into something that flies...

[Lar]

right now, my "bet" would be with Bigelow being the most "able" to turn viewgraphs and mockups into something that flies...

Bigelow has been around a LONG time. If you read the threads, you might form the same impression as I have... all paper at this point. Poor management and poor working conditions means all the actual talent has left. I'd bet on someone else, if they are at all competent, being first.

[ncb1397]

all paper at this point.

Not exactly: Genesis I, Genesis II and BEAM.

Anyways, BEAM and whatever crew vehicle is used to get up there will work for crew accommodation in a crunch until something larger comes along (probably not 4 people per trip though unless NASA augments that with space they set up in Leonardo or something).