Author Topic: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine  (Read 1149141 times)

Offline ncb1397

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #680 on: 01/22/2019 11:34 pm »
Quote
Blue Origin, the commercial rocket company founded by Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos, will break ground in Alabama Friday on a promised plant to produce its new, next-generation rocket engine.

https://www.al.com/business/2019/01/jeff-bezos-blue-origin-rocket-company-breaking-ground-on-alabama-engine-plant.html

Looks like they saved on architecture/engineering for the Alabama factory.

Offline AncientU

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #681 on: 01/23/2019 05:22 pm »
Wonder what that means in terms of thrust they've achieved and duration of the tests. You can clearly see throttling in the video, but we've already seen throttling tests right? Have they achieve 100% thrust for full duration yet? I'd think achieving either 100% thrust or full duration would have prompted a press release from Blue. Wonder where they are standing now.

Today, Jeff Foust:
Quote
Blue Origin’s Cornell, talking about BE-4 testing, says the next version of the engine that will be tested soon will go up to 100% thrust, vs 70% of earlier tests.
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1088088915771342848
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Offline Kansan52

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #682 on: 01/23/2019 05:43 pm »
Looks like they saved on architecture/engineering for the Alabama factory.

No. But you knew that.  ;D

Offline LouScheffer

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #683 on: 01/24/2019 05:45 am »
Wonder what that means in terms of thrust they've achieved and duration of the tests. You can clearly see throttling in the video, but we've already seen throttling tests right? Have they achieve 100% thrust for full duration yet? I'd think achieving either 100% thrust or full duration would have prompted a press release from Blue. Wonder where they are standing now.

Today, Jeff Foust:
Quote
Blue Origin’s Cornell, talking about BE-4 testing, says the next version of the engine that will be tested soon will go up to 100% thrust, vs 70% of earlier tests.
Have they done ANY tests at 100%, even short ones?  Going from 70% to 100% is a 42% increase in thrust, with a corresponding increase flow rates, pump power, and throttle range.  That's not a gimme, even though the engine was clearly designed for it.

Offline Davidthefat

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #684 on: 01/24/2019 06:36 am »
Wonder what that means in terms of thrust they've achieved and duration of the tests. You can clearly see throttling in the video, but we've already seen throttling tests right? Have they achieve 100% thrust for full duration yet? I'd think achieving either 100% thrust or full duration would have prompted a press release from Blue. Wonder where they are standing now.

Today, Jeff Foust:
Quote
Blue Origin’s Cornell, talking about BE-4 testing, says the next version of the engine that will be tested soon will go up to 100% thrust, vs 70% of earlier tests.
Have they done ANY tests at 100%, even short ones?  Going from 70% to 100% is a 42% increase in thrust, with a corresponding increase flow rates, pump power, and throttle range.  That's not a gimme, even though the engine was clearly designed for it.

The tweet says that the power level of the engine never exceeds 70%.

They were babying it for a reason. Probably to prevent it from blowing up.

Online envy887

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #685 on: 01/24/2019 05:04 pm »
Wonder what that means in terms of thrust they've achieved and duration of the tests. You can clearly see throttling in the video, but we've already seen throttling tests right? Have they achieve 100% thrust for full duration yet? I'd think achieving either 100% thrust or full duration would have prompted a press release from Blue. Wonder where they are standing now.

Today, Jeff Foust:
Quote
Blue Origin’s Cornell, talking about BE-4 testing, says the next version of the engine that will be tested soon will go up to 100% thrust, vs 70% of earlier tests.
Have they done ANY tests at 100%, even short ones?  Going from 70% to 100% is a 42% increase in thrust, with a corresponding increase flow rates, pump power, and throttle range.  That's not a gimme, even though the engine was clearly designed for it.

The tweet says that the power level of the engine never exceeds 70%.

They were babying it for a reason. Probably to prevent it from blowing up.

70% is about the 400 klbf mark, which IIRC is the thrust they originally designed and tested the powerheads for. Maybe they were still using some of the original powerhead components for testing while they finished building the 550 klbf powerhead parts.

Offline brickmack

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #686 on: 01/24/2019 05:28 pm »
Raptor is said to be able to scale relatively easily to different thrust levels/chamber geometries, largely because of the gas/gas methalox design. BE-4 is gas/liquid, but I'd bet its still a lot easier to scale than most historical large American engines

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #687 on: 01/25/2019 02:43 pm »
ULA:

ULA President and CEO Tory Bruno’s Statement about Blue Origin Ground Breaking in Alabama

Huntsville, Ala., Jan. 25, 2019 – “United Launch Alliance welcomes Blue Origin to the great state of Alabama and to join the other aerospace companies that have made Rocket City our home for decades. A little more than three months ago, ULA chose Blue Origin’s BE-4 engine to power our Vulcan Centaur rocket, which we are manufacturing at our facility in Decatur, Alabama. I am pleased that Blue Origin has chosen to join the more than 200 ULA suppliers doing business here in Alabama. The state of Alabama knows how to attract and help business grow and I could not be more thrilled to be part of the resurgence of rocket and engine development in the Tennessee Valley.

 

“ULA’s Atlas and Delta rockets are the most successful space launch vehicles in history, having launched more than 130 missions with 100 percent mission success. Today, we celebrate the culmination of those decades of knowhow and invention into the transition to our new Vulcan Centaur rocket. Vulcan Centaur is one system for all missions. It will embody our expertise and reliability while providing advanced technology to our warfighters, being superior in both cost and capability. Vulcan Centaur is the only launch vehicle with a design that is centered on our customers’ national security space mission. Vulcan Centaur will provide for our nation’s needs today and into the future. We look forward to our partnership with Blue Origin, building the advanced BE-4 engine to power our next-generation rocket, right here in Alabama!”
« Last Edit: 01/25/2019 02:44 pm by Chris Bergin »
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Offline Chris Bergin

Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #688 on: 01/25/2019 08:08 pm »
Blue release:

Today we broke ground on the construction of a world-class rocket engine production facility in Huntsville, Alabama, extending the city’s rich legacy in liquid rocket engines.
 
Here are excerpts from today's groundbreaking ceremony given by Blue Origin CEO Bob Smith:
 
It’s a great day here in Rocket City. Thanks to the votes of confidence from United Launch Alliance, from the Air Force for national security missions, and from Huntsville and the state of Alabama, we are breaking ground on a facility to produce our world-class engines and power the next generation of spaceflight.
 
Last September, United Launch Alliance (ULA) selected our BE-4 engine to power the Vulcan rocket. Then in October, both our New Glenn launch vehicle and Vulcan were selected by the United States Air Force in its Launch Services Agreement contract. This means two out of the three major launch systems flying national security space missions will be powered by engines produced in our Huntsville facility.
 
New Glenn will be a competitive launch vehicle that can serve all the needs of the civil, commercial and national security space markets for years to come.

We’re excited to provide safe, reliable access to space and – in the case of United Launch Alliance – end the dependency our nation has on using Russian RD-180 engines for critical national security launches.
 
The BE-4 is an incredibly sophisticated and powerful engine. It will be a true marvel of engineering when we complete its development later this year and it is currently rocking our test stands out in West Texas. Each ULA Vulcan first stage will have two of these BE-4 engines and they will be integrated into the vehicle just across the river at their Decatur facility. Seven BE-4s, with a combined thrust of nearly 4 million pounds, will also power the fully reusable first stage of Blue Origin’s New Glenn launch system.
 
We’ll also be building our BE-3U engine in Huntsville. It’s an upper-stage variant of our BE-3 liquid oxygen-liquid hydrogen engine that we’re already flying on New Shepard. It’s the first completely new liquid hydrogen engine developed for production in the United States in more than a decade and New Shepard is giving us hours of experience operating it.
 
This project has been in the works for several years and we’re thankful to everyone who made it happen.

Thanks to Governor Kay Ivey, Senator Richard Shelby, Secretary of Commerce Greg Canfield, Huntsville Mayor Tommy Battle, Commission Chairman Dale Strong, and the entire Huntsville Madison County Chamber of Commerce for their commitment to bringing us to northern Alabama and making this day possible.

We’d also like to recognize Senator Doug Jones, Representative Mo Brooks, and Marshall Space Flight Center Director Jody Singer for their continued support.

This engine production facility demonstrates our commitment to the state of Alabama. It also demonstrates our confidence that the highly-skilled workforce, deep aerospace history and strong business climate in Huntsville will play a critical role in advancing our vision of millions of people living and working in space.

Additionally, we are in final negotiations with Marshall Space Flight Center to acceptance test both BE-4 and BE-3U engines at Test Stand 4670, the historic site for testing the Saturn V first stage and the Space Shuttle main engines. Through this agreement, we’ll provide for the refurbishment, restoration and modernization of this piece of American history.

When we open our doors in Huntsville in March 2020, we will add more than 300 jobs to the local economy, invest over $200 million in the facility and ensure a new generation of engines will rumble to life and send us into the heavens.
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Offline Chris Bergin

« Last Edit: 01/25/2019 08:08 pm by Chris Bergin »
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Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #690 on: 01/25/2019 09:24 pm »
Quote
Blue Origin breaks ground for BE-4 factory
by Jeff Foust — January 25, 2019

WASHINGTON — As Blue Origin breaks ground on a new factory for producing rocket engines, the company says development of its BE-4 engine will be completed later this year.

https://spacenews.com/blue-origin-breaks-ground-for-be-4-factory/

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #691 on: 01/26/2019 02:21 am »
Quote
Smith announced at the groundbreaking that Blue Origin is working on agreement with NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center to take over Building 4670 at the center. That site, a test stand previously used for testing engines for the Saturn 5 and shuttle, will be used for acceptance testing for both the BE-3U and BE-4 engines.

Test Stand 4670 was originally used to test S-IC-T and the first three S-IC flight stages of the Saturn V!

http://heroicrelics.org/info/s-ic-test-stand/s-ic-stand-log-book.html
« Last Edit: 01/26/2019 06:19 am by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #692 on: 01/26/2019 02:31 am »
This will be money making business, selling BE4s to ULA and BE3U to Blue for customer missions. Should be able to stand on its own two feet without relying on Bezos $Bs to jack it up.

Besides BE4 engines for new NG boosters, wonder if they will handle refurbishment of BE4s. I'm thinking NG will have engine replacement after so many flights with refurbished BE4s. Same may apply to NS BE3.

Offline Lars-J

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #693 on: 01/26/2019 05:58 am »
Test Stand 4670 was originally used to test S-IC-T and the first three S-IC flight stages of the Saturn V!

http://heroicrelics.org/info/s-ic-test-stand/s-ic-stand-log-book.html

But I assume that they won’t be using the stand to test NG first stages?

I thought all of that would happen in FL, which is why they built the factory close to the pad.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #694 on: 01/26/2019 06:19 am »
But I assume that they won’t be using the stand to test NG first stages?

Yes, that is my understanding as well. The article doesn't say they will be testing full stages on the S-IC stand, only BE-4 and BE-3U engines.
« Last Edit: 01/26/2019 06:20 am by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Joseph Peterson

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #695 on: 01/28/2019 05:38 pm »
This will be money making business, selling BE4s to ULA and BE3U to Blue for customer missions. Should be able to stand on its own two feet without relying on Bezos $Bs to jack it up.

SNIP

Isn't this an assumption that Vulcan wins the second EELV2 spot?

Doesn't this ignore the shift in demand to LEO and the potential for a reusable New Glenn second stage serving that demand?

Wouldn't an engine factory sized for 60 engines per year be excessive fixed costs if future demand is a dozen engines per year?

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #696 on: 01/28/2019 06:45 pm »
But I assume that they won’t be using the stand to test NG first stages?

Yes, that is my understanding as well. The article doesn't say they will be testing full stages on the S-IC stand, only BE-4 and BE-3U engines.
Test stands at CCAFS SLC-11 will be capable of both stage and engine tests (launches are currently not planned from SLC-11). SLC-36 will be capable of static fires and launches. As a SLC for testing and launched at VAFB has not been leased there are presently two candidates which are not in the running for use by competitors that are on the table SLC-576 Alpha and Bravo complexes which have a trio of above ground pads each.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #697 on: 02/12/2019 09:41 pm »
https://twitter.com/b0yle/status/1095429420364501000

Quote
.@blueorigin's Mowry: #BE4 engine fired to 70% power and 200-sec duration, roughly flight profile for launch. Testing continues in West Texas.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #698 on: 02/28/2019 10:53 am »
Forgot to copy this over for completeness:

https://twitter.com/stephenclark1/status/1100165131101720579

Quote
Just finished a nice interview with @torybruno. The first flight hardware for Vulcan is now being produced at ULA’s factory in Alabama. First launch remains set for Spring 2021.

https://twitter.com/stephenclark1/status/1100167165578235905

Quote
Critical design review for Vulcan should be completed soon, says @torybruno. Waiting on some final data from BE-4 engine tests. He says Blue Origin has completed dozens of hotfire tests to date on the BE-4, the most powerful methane rocket engine ever built.

Presumably waiting to get higher than 70% power?

Note that Vulcan first flight date hasn't changed, so whatever delays BE-4 is experiencing to get above 70% power isn't (yet) impacting ULA schedule.

Offline Llian Rhydderch

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #699 on: 03/01/2019 01:41 pm »
This reasonably-thorough SpaceNews article on groundbreaking at the new Blue engine factory in Huntsville, Alabama, says the "new version of the engine will soon be installed at the test site ... 'and we’re going to be going up to 100 percent power.' "
Re arguments from authority on NSF:  "no one is exempt from error, and errors of authority are usually the worst kind.  Taking your word for things without question is no different than a bracket design not being tested because the designer was an old hand."
"You would actually save yourself time and effort if you were to use evidence and logic to make your points instead of wrapping yourself in the royal mantle of authority.  The approach only works on sheep, not inquisitive, intelligent people."

 

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