Author Topic: Tiangong - Chinese Space Station  (Read 436537 times)

Offline RonM

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Re: Tiangong - Chinese Space Station
« Reply #140 on: 03/21/2017 06:49 pm »
Next, a query that needs someone who knows the Chinese language well.   China is a predominantly atheist country and therefore the use of "Heavenly" as part of spacecraft names seems to be rather strange.   I am wondering whether what we translate as "heavenly" might convey something like "beyond the atmosphere" (ie, outer space) rather than having religious associations.   Same with "divine" as part of the Shenzhou name.

It's not strange to pick names from mythology. NASA has used Apollo, Ares, Mercury, etc. and you don't see a lot of ancient Greek or Roman temples around here.

Offline sdsds

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Re: Tiangong - Chinese Space Station
« Reply #141 on: 03/21/2017 07:35 pm »
RonM makes a good point: it is often difficult to distinguish between myth and religion (and sometimes between myth and "science"). ;)

"Mars," for example. It's a term used in science. It is also used in mythology. And in discussion of some religious practices.

I am certainly not an Asian language scholar but it seems plausible the same could be true of the term "heavenly" in Chinese.
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Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Tiangong - Chinese Space Station
« Reply #142 on: 03/22/2017 10:06 pm »
Time to revive this snoozing thread methinks! :)

Next, a query that needs someone who knows the Chinese language well.   China is a predominantly atheist country and therefore the use of "Heavenly" as part of spacecraft names seems to be rather strange.   I am wondering whether what we translate as "heavenly" might convey something like "beyond the atmosphere" (ie, outer space) rather than having religious associations.   Same with "divine" as part of the Shenzhou name.


China is not an atheist country, the CP is at most nominally so. In reality China is home to hundreds of millions of Christians, Buddhists, and Muslims.
Apologies in advance for any lack of civility - it's unintended

Offline frensel

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Re: Tiangong - Chinese Space Station
« Reply #143 on: 03/23/2017 12:09 am »
Time to revive this snoozing thread methinks! :)

A couple of queries for which someone might know the answer.

When the names for the components of the Tiangong Complex (as I call the station) appeared, the second plug-on module was given the name Xuntian but the latest data show that the name is actually to be Mangtian, with the free-flying space telescope being Xuntian.   I am wondering whether there has been a genuine name switch for the second module or what there was a bureaucratic blunder which led to the "Xuntian" name being applied to the wrong piece of the Tiangong Complex "kit" when the first details were released and this error simply got repeated in other literature.   

Thoughts anyone?

Next, a query that needs someone who knows the Chinese language well.   China is a predominantly atheist country and therefore the use of "Heavenly" as part of spacecraft names seems to be rather strange.   I am wondering whether what we translate as "heavenly" might convey something like "beyond the atmosphere" (ie, outer space) rather than having religious associations.   Same with "divine" as part of the Shenzhou name.

I would be interested in any thoughts about this as well please.

Many thanks in advance.
The use of "Heavenly" as part of the spacecraft name is totally fine. For Chinese, this word (Heavenly) doesn't imply any religious meaning. Chinese just like grand, beautiful, and natural names. The actual meaning of "天宮" is "Sky House", but if you translate it to "Heavenly Palace", Chinese are happy about that.

Offline frensel

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Re: Tiangong - Chinese Space Station
« Reply #144 on: 03/23/2017 12:16 am »
When the names for the components of the Tiangong Complex (as I call the station) appeared, the second plug-on module was given the name Xuntian but the latest data show that the name is actually to be Mangtian, with the free-flying space telescope being Xuntian.

Using http://www.chinesetools.eu/tools/zhuyin/ the transliteration of 梦天 is Meng Tian, not Mang Tian.
It is not "梦天", but "問天". "問" means "ask". Therefore, "問天" probably means Chinese are curious about the Nature and they want to figure out how it works.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Tiangong - Chinese Space Station
« Reply #145 on: 03/23/2017 03:59 am »
It is not "梦天", but "問天". "問" means "ask". Therefore, "問天" probably means Chinese are curious about the Nature and they want to figure out how it works.

I only copied what was given from a Chinese presentation.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Phillip Clark

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Re: Tiangong - Chinese Space Station
« Reply #146 on: 03/23/2017 05:25 am »
Thank you for the comments regarding the use of "heavenly" in Chinese space station related and other names.   I was particularly interested in Frensel's "Sky House" translation.
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Offline frensel

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Re: Tiangong - Chinese Space Station
« Reply #147 on: 03/23/2017 07:40 am »
It is not "梦天", but "問天". "問" means "ask". Therefore, "問天" probably means Chinese are curious about the Nature and they want to figure out how it works.

I only copied what was given from a Chinese presentation.
You are right. It seems that this is the new name of the second space laboratory. "問天" is the name of the first laboratory module.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Tiangong - Chinese Space Station
« Reply #148 on: 03/24/2017 03:14 am »
You are right. It seems that this is the new name of the second space laboratory. "問天" is the name of the first laboratory module.

That same source gives 问天 (Wen Tian) as the name of the first lab module.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Phillip Clark

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Re: Tiangong - Chinese Space Station
« Reply #149 on: 03/28/2017 06:47 am »
Do we know for certain the diameters of the large cylinders on Tianhe, Wentian and Mengtian?   I have seen some suggest 4.2 metres which is the same as the Salyut and Mir stations, but I have not seen a Chinese source for this.
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Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Tiangong - Chinese Space Station
« Reply #150 on: 03/28/2017 09:13 pm »
Do we know for certain the diameters of the large cylinders on Tianhe, Wentian and Mengtian?   I have seen some suggest 4.2 metres which is the same as the Salyut and Mir stations, but I have not seen a Chinese source for this.

Somewhat larger I suspect, as the Proton fairing is 4.35 m whereas the CZ-5's is 5.2 m
Apologies in advance for any lack of civility - it's unintended

Offline Phillip Clark

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Re: Tiangong - Chinese Space Station
« Reply #151 on: 03/29/2017 01:17 am »
Do we know for certain the diameters of the large cylinders on Tianhe, Wentian and Mengtian?   I have seen some suggest 4.2 metres which is the same as the Salyut and Mir stations, but I have not seen a Chinese source for this.
Somewhat larger I suspect, as the Proton fairing is 4.35 m whereas the CZ-5's is 5.2 m

Looking at the illustrations of a docked Tianzhou (which must have a maximum diameter of 3.35 metres at the most), the diameter of the main Tianhe modules looks larger but not by a metre or more.
I've always been crazy but it's kept me from going insane - WJ.

Offline zotiraki

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Re: Tiangong - Chinese Space Station
« Reply #152 on: 04/26/2017 03:16 pm »
Attached is an infographic on the space station.  Dates from 2012 or 2013.

I would be interested on any comments on China's Space Station, CZ-2F and CZ-7 costs that are embedded in a web page at [http://www.ikuyu.cn/indexinfo?type=1&id=12227&summary=][/url] 

Specifically do the costs look reasonable, are they backed up by any other documents, etc?

I've attached a google translate of a portion of that web page should you have difficulty accessing it.

Thanks!

Online Liss

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Re: Tiangong - Chinese Space Station
« Reply #153 on: 04/26/2017 04:31 pm »
Do I see a Lyappa fixture?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyappa_arm

I should remark that Lyappa (Ляппа) is not a Russian word or name. Most probable this is the word lapa (лапа) erroneusly written. Yet lapa is also not an official name for this small manipulator -- its meaning is paw. It could be used metaphorically by somebody to explain the use of manipulator.
This message reflects my personal opinion based on open sources of information.

Offline AS_501

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Re: Tiangong - Chinese Space Station
« Reply #154 on: 04/26/2017 04:39 pm »
Maybe this was already discussed earlier/elsewhere, but won't the Chinese station be subject to mutual shadowing of the solar arrays?  If I recall correctly, Mir had the same problem.
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Offline Infinitesky

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Re: Tiangong - Chinese Space Station
« Reply #155 on: 04/26/2017 10:00 pm »
Maybe this was already discussed earlier/elsewhere, but won't the Chinese station be subject to mutual shadowing of the solar arrays?  If I recall correctly, Mir had the same problem.

These solar panels will be in the same plane eventually, and on both sides of the station there will be larger solar panels(similar to ISS), so do not worry about this problem, the power generation from CSS will be three times the MIR.
« Last Edit: 04/26/2017 10:02 pm by Infinitesky »

Offline Phillip Clark

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Re: Tiangong - Chinese Space Station
« Reply #156 on: 04/28/2017 04:48 pm »
I have just been nosing around on the Chinese site https://www.chinaspaceflight.com/China-Launch-Schedule.html and it has this list of launches in the Tiangong Complex programme:

2019     Tianhe 1, Tianzhou 2, Shenzhou 12

2020     Wentian, Tianzhou 3, Shenzhou 13

2021     Mengtian, Tianzhou 4, Shenzhou 14

2022     Tianzhou 5, Shenzhou 15, Xuntian (free-flying telescope)

Based upon this listing the Chinese are only planning one visit to the Tiangong Complex a year as it evolves, and I would guess that these visits might start with a 2-3 months residency and over 2-3 years build up to six months as the standard residency.   Clearly the Chinese are not planning to permanently occupy the station during the initial years - maybe that will come once all three modules are docked together around 2022?

In 2022 there is mention of a CZ-5B launch of "巡天号光学舱" which Google translates as "skylight optics cabin" - any ideas?   Maybe it's not connected with the Tiangong Complex, of course.
I've always been crazy but it's kept me from going insane - WJ.

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Re: Tiangong - Chinese Space Station
« Reply #157 on: 04/28/2017 04:50 pm »
I have just been nosing around on the Chinese site https://www.chinaspaceflight.com/China-Launch-Schedule.html and it has this list of launches in the Tiangong Complex programme:

2019     Tianhe 1, Tianzhou 2, Shenzhou 12

2020     Wentian, Tianzhou 3, Shenzhou 13

2021     Mengtian, Tianzhou 4, Shenzhou 14

2022     Tianzhou 5, Shenzhou 15, Xuntian (free-flying telescope)

Based upon this listing the Chinese are only planning one visit to the Tiangong Complex a year as it evolves, and I would guess that these visits might start with a 2-3 months residency and over 2-3 years build up to six months as the standard residency.   Clearly the Chinese are not planning to permanently occupy the station during the initial years - maybe that will come once all three modules are docked together around 2022?

In 2022 there is mention of a CZ-5B launch of "巡天号光学舱" which Google translates as "skylight optics cabin" - any ideas?   Maybe it's not connected with the Tiangong Complex, of course.

That's the Xuntian free-flying telescope you just listed above. ;)
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Offline Phillip Clark

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Re: Tiangong - Chinese Space Station
« Reply #158 on: 04/28/2017 05:00 pm »
I have just been nosing around on the Chinese site https://www.chinaspaceflight.com/China-Launch-Schedule.html and it has this list of launches in the Tiangong Complex programme:
2019     Tianhe 1, Tianzhou 2, Shenzhou 12
2020     Wentian, Tianzhou 3, Shenzhou 13
2021     Mengtian, Tianzhou 4, Shenzhou 14
2022     Tianzhou 5, Shenzhou 15, Xuntian (free-flying telescope)
Based upon this listing the Chinese are only planning one visit to the Tiangong Complex a year as it evolves, and I would guess that these visits might start with a 2-3 months residency and over 2-3 years build up to six months as the standard residency.   Clearly the Chinese are not planning to permanently occupy the station during the initial years - maybe that will come once all three modules are docked together around 2022?
In 2022 there is mention of a CZ-5B launch of "巡天号光学舱" which Google translates as "skylight optics cabin" - any ideas?   Maybe it's not connected with the Tiangong Complex, of course.

That's the Xuntian free-flying telescope you just listed above. ;)

Thank you but I am now confused because there's a separate entry for "CZ-5B   文昌   空间站巡天光学舱(XT)" which I took to be Xuntian ............ !
I've always been crazy but it's kept me from going insane - WJ.

Offline Star One

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Re: Tiangong - Chinese Space Station
« Reply #159 on: 04/28/2017 06:55 pm »
Reuters article.

China to begin construction of manned space station in 2019

Quote
"This again announces the ambition and aspiration of the great rejuvenation of the Chinese people, and our resolute confidence in becoming a major space power," the space station project's supervisor Wang Zhaoyao told a news briefing in Beijing.

"After completing experimental stage spaceflight missions, we will enter the development and construction phase. According to our plans we will carry out the assembly and construction of China's manned space station between 2019 and 2022."

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN17U0GG

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