They call it upper stage yet the upper stage is expended. For cargo it only reuses the fairing, for manned flights it's arguably too big.I don't get it.
Quote from: Robotbeat on 09/19/2022 05:59 pmQuote from: Try_NBS on 09/19/2022 05:49 pmEffectively, if SUSIE is approved by minister's council, it will be in the same delays than Ariane NEXT. But I don't know if Ariane NEXT will be capable to launch a 25T spaceship. I have see on an Arianespace document the maximum payload will be about 20T.SUSIE has some of its own propulsion, right? It could do the circularization burn. Not if it also needs the same propulsion to do the deorbit burn AND land propulsively, all within a wet mass budget of max. 25 metric tons while having a crew cabin for 5 AND a 40 cubic meter payload bay with airlock for EVA AND other unpressurized cargo.The projected capabilities and the wet mass don't match. That is UNLESS the vehicle, after reaching orbit, goes to a propellant depot first. Needless to say: a propellant depot was not mentioned during the ArianeGroup presentation.
Quote from: Try_NBS on 09/19/2022 05:49 pmEffectively, if SUSIE is approved by minister's council, it will be in the same delays than Ariane NEXT. But I don't know if Ariane NEXT will be capable to launch a 25T spaceship. I have see on an Arianespace document the maximum payload will be about 20T.SUSIE has some of its own propulsion, right? It could do the circularization burn.
Effectively, if SUSIE is approved by minister's council, it will be in the same delays than Ariane NEXT. But I don't know if Ariane NEXT will be capable to launch a 25T spaceship. I have see on an Arianespace document the maximum payload will be about 20T.
I didn't realize this but it seems that Susie could fly to lunar orbit:https://twitter.com/SPACEdotcom/status/1572317608271028226
Quote from: woods170 on 09/20/2022 09:42 amQuote from: Robotbeat on 09/19/2022 05:59 pmQuote from: Try_NBS on 09/19/2022 05:49 pmEffectively, if SUSIE is approved by minister's council, it will be in the same delays than Ariane NEXT. But I don't know if Ariane NEXT will be capable to launch a 25T spaceship. I have see on an Arianespace document the maximum payload will be about 20T.SUSIE has some of its own propulsion, right? It could do the circularization burn. Not if it also needs the same propulsion to do the deorbit burn AND land propulsively, all within a wet mass budget of max. 25 metric tons while having a crew cabin for 5 AND a 40 cubic meter payload bay with airlock for EVA AND other unpressurized cargo.The projected capabilities and the wet mass don't match. That is UNLESS the vehicle, after reaching orbit, goes to a propellant depot first. Needless to say: a propellant depot was not mentioned during the ArianeGroup presentation."This vision of the future for Europe’s launchers is based on an in-depth study of possible future scenarios and the corresponding space missions... In the near future... it will be necessary to adopt a “networked” approach, similar to the current air transport “hubs”... launchers will serve LEO and a new orbit beyond the Van Allen Belts called a “parking orbit”. From these orbits, other spacecraft would take over and head for the final destinations." It's pretty vague, but it sounds like SUSIE might be a surface-to-station shuttle, with the station potentially resupplying it in orbit.
I don't think they will use a refuelling station, they will do the same method as the Starship. 1 SUSIE Hab, 1-2 Susie Tanker.
Quote from: Try_NBS on 09/21/2022 10:07 amI don't think they will use a refuelling station, they will do the same method as the Starship. 1 SUSIE Hab, 1-2 Susie Tanker.On a single launch pad infrastructure that supports - at best - six launches per year? That will be interesting.
The more details we get the more it sounds odd. European industry should refrain to put forward projects with such a low maturity.
Quote from: Exastro on 09/20/2022 08:44 pmQuote from: woods170 on 09/20/2022 09:42 amQuote from: Robotbeat on 09/19/2022 05:59 pmQuote from: Try_NBS on 09/19/2022 05:49 pmEffectively, if SUSIE is approved by minister's council, it will be in the same delays than Ariane NEXT. But I don't know if Ariane NEXT will be capable to launch a 25T spaceship. I have see on an Arianespace document the maximum payload will be about 20T.SUSIE has some of its own propulsion, right? It could do the circularization burn. Not if it also needs the same propulsion to do the deorbit burn AND land propulsively, all within a wet mass budget of max. 25 metric tons while having a crew cabin for 5 AND a 40 cubic meter payload bay with airlock for EVA AND other unpressurized cargo.The projected capabilities and the wet mass don't match. That is UNLESS the vehicle, after reaching orbit, goes to a propellant depot first. Needless to say: a propellant depot was not mentioned during the ArianeGroup presentation."This vision of the future for Europe’s launchers is based on an in-depth study of possible future scenarios and the corresponding space missions... In the near future... it will be necessary to adopt a “networked” approach, similar to the current air transport “hubs”... launchers will serve LEO and a new orbit beyond the Van Allen Belts called a “parking orbit”. From these orbits, other spacecraft would take over and head for the final destinations." It's pretty vague, but it sounds like SUSIE might be a surface-to-station shuttle, with the station potentially resupplying it in orbit.Tell me, what space station is currently in orbit that is able to refuel SUSIE with several tons of storable propellants?Answer: None.
Yes, but if Susie is a concurrent of Space X, I don't think they will be ok to refuel it with the Starship. I think they will use a tank version to refuel the spacecraft, like the Starship.
If the ESA can launch missions to the Moon orbit, they will do it. And that will be cheaper than any SLS launch. If they use their reusable Ariane NEXT versions, the cost of a launch will be cheaper too.