Author Topic: Soyuz-2-1B launch with Kosmos (Persona) satellite - June 7, 2013  (Read 49677 times)

Offline Stan Black

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Originally it had been reported that the Perso
A question which has always puzzled me is whether the design bureau programme name (like Yantar-4K2M) was Persona or whether the Ministry codename (like Kolbalt-M) was Persona.   Can anyone give a definitive answer to this?   Since Persona is used without an attached numerical designator, it would appear to be the Ministry name rather than the design bureau name - in which case what is the design bureau name?

Of course the system of assigning the different design bureau and ministry names might have changed over the years!

My understanding was that only the design bureau name was used until the satellite type was 'adopted into armaments' - but maybe I've misunderstood the system.

In the same sentence from ЦСКБ-Прогресс you find
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Работы по изделиям «Лиана», «Барс», «Персона», «Дон» ведутся в соответствии с намеченными графиками и заключенными контрактами.
http://www.cosmopark.ru/lib/kir2.htm

However ЛОМО refers to «Барс» by its instrument «Карат»
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Предприятием сформирован портфель заказов по основной деятельности до 2013 года на общую сумму около 9 млрд. рублей, состоящий из таких приоритетных проектов для государства, как: «Булава», «Персона», «Карат», «Игла-С», «Верба» и др.
http://www.lomo.ru/site/about/qreport3-11.rtf
« Last Edit: 06/22/2013 10:08 am by Stan Black »


Offline Stan Black

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http://www.samspace.ru/zakupki/plany_zakupok/

Quote
Разработка проектов каталожных описаний системы 14К031 (с изд. 14Ф137 № 2)

Offline fatjohn1408

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So who is the launch service provider for such a payload? Is it TsSKB-Progress as well?

Offline Nicolas PILLET

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There is no "launch services provider".

Space Forces (VKO) need a rocket. They order it to TsSKB, and they launch it with their own facilities, worforce, etc.

Actually, VKO are their own "launch services provider".

Private companies (Intelsat, etc.) use launch services provider because they don't have cosmodroms, rockets, worforce, etc.
VKO have all oh this, so they don't need any launch service provider.
Nicolas PILLET
Kosmonavtika : The French site on Russian Space


Offline owais.usmani

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Persona-2 fails in orbit?

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/persona.html#2_flight

Quote
In July 2013, NII TP design bureau published a press-release stating that Persona No. 2 was undergoing flight testing. The company congratulated its staff with the successful commissioning of the communication gear onboard the satellite. However shortly thereafter, the spacecraft was apparently lost, prompting Russian air and space defense forces, VKO, to take out of retirement a previous-generation Kobalt-M satellite and launch it on May 6, 2014. However, given the short life span of Kobalt-type spacecraft, it would be only a temporary solution to the problem of inadequate high-resolution imaging capabilities available to the Russian military in a midst of the Ukrainian crisis.

 :o

Offline Stan Black

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14К031 Persona
Electro-optical reconnaissance satellite
Product: 14Ф137 № 3
Components: ОЭК 17В321, СУ 14М339М, БВС 14М828, 3x БОКЗ-М60, БА МЛСПИ
Launch vehicle: Soyuz-2-1B with 14С738

<snip>

МЛСПИ - межспутниковой лазерной системы передачи информации

[translation: Intersatellite laser information transmission system]


Oh! That looks interesting. Any indication what the satellite on the other end of the laser link might be?



Google just found this for me:-
Quote
Обеспечение и проведение калибровочных радиационных испытаний электро-радиоизделий иностранного производства, комплектующих аппаратуру МЛСПИ изделия 14Ф137 N 2
http://www.socionet.ru

Looks like this one too featured a LASER communications system?

Offline owais.usmani

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So is this satellite alive and healthy?

Offline Liss

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Of the five images of Eastern Ukraine published by Russian Ministry of Defense on July 21, two were made by Persona and other three by Resurs-P №1. It follows from the dates and times of images which correspond to high passes of the two satellites.
« Last Edit: 08/03/2014 08:46 pm by Liss »
This message reflects my personal opinion based on open sources of information.

Offline Phillip Clark

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Of the five images of Eastern Ukraine published by Russian Ministry of Defense on July 17, two were made by Persona and other three by Resurs-P №1. It follows from the dates and times of images which correspond to high passes of the two satellites.

Are these images available online, Igor?
I've always been crazy but it's kept me from going insane - WJ.

Offline B. Hendrickx

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Of the five images of Eastern Ukraine published by Russian Ministry of Defense on July 17, two were made by Persona and other three by Resurs-P №1. It follows from the dates and times of images which correspond to high passes of the two satellites.

Are these images available online, Igor?

The pictures shown during the press conference are available on the website of the Russian Ministry of Defense :

http://stat.multimedia.mil.ru/multimedia/photo/gallery.htm?id=17402@cmsPhotoGallery

A full transcript of the press conference (in Russian and English) is here :

http://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=11970654@egNews

Which pictures were made by Persona?


Offline Liss

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Of the five images of Eastern Ukraine published by Russian Ministry of Defense on July 17, two were made by Persona and other three by Resurs-P №1. It follows from the dates and times of images which correspond to high passes of the two satellites.

Are these images available online, Igor?

The pictures shown during the press conference are available on the website of the Russian Ministry of Defense :

http://stat.multimedia.mil.ru/multimedia/photo/gallery.htm?id=17402@cmsPhotoGallery

A full transcript of the press conference (in Russian and English) is here :

http://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=11970654@egNews

Which pictures were made by Persona?

See date and time at the top of each image:

(1) 14.07.2014 11:31 -- Lugansk area
(2a) 14.07.2014 11:40 -- Donetsk area
(2b) 14.07.2014 11:40 -- Donetsk area
(3) 17.07.2014 11:32 -- Donetsk area
(4) 17.07.2014 11:32 -- Shakhtersk area
(5) 18.07.2014 11:39 -- Shakhtersk area

Times are DMV (UTC+3h).
(2a) and (2b) are parts of the same image. (3) and (4) can be, too.
Of these, (2a), (2b) and (5) are probably images by Persona (exact match to passes at elevation 80° or so), and (1), (3) and (4) are probably images by Resurs-P (exact match to passes at elevation 60° or so).
This message reflects my personal opinion based on open sources of information.

Offline Liss

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Ivan Safronov Jr. confirms successful reprogramming of Persona: http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/2538401
« Last Edit: 08/04/2014 07:02 pm by Liss »
This message reflects my personal opinion based on open sources of information.

Offline Phillip Clark

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Since Cosmos 2486 is working, do we know whether the Persona satellite has been "accepted into the armaments" and if so, when please?
I've always been crazy but it's kept me from going insane - WJ.

Offline Stan Black

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14К031 Persona
Electro-optical reconnaissance satellite
Product: 14Ф137 № 3
Components: ОЭК 17В321, СУ 14М339М, БВС 14М828, 3x БОКЗ-М60, БА МЛСПИ
Launch vehicle: Soyuz-2-1B with 14С738

<snip>

МЛСПИ - межспутниковой лазерной системы передачи информации

[translation: Intersatellite laser information transmission system]


Oh! That looks interesting. Any indication what the satellite on the other end of the laser link might be?



Google just found this for me:-
Quote
Обеспечение и проведение калибровочных радиационных испытаний электро-радиоизделий иностранного производства, комплектующих аппаратуру МЛСПИ изделия 14Ф137 N 2
http://www.socionet.ru

Looks like this one too featured a LASER communications system?

Also features the same 14Д520 propulsion system as Resurs-P and the Volga upper stage?

Quote
Приборы и системы «Сторож-2М-7М», МЛСПИ, БЦВМС, ДКУ, БИТС-2Ц-7М, гермоперехода ИБПА, ОСД, БОКЗ-М60, КАС 14М102, блока мультиплексора для изготовления производством изделия 14Ф137 №2, а также приборы и системы ОСД, БОКЗ-М60, 14М533 (СГК), БИУС-ВОА, БЦВМС, ДКУ, ОДУ 14Д520, АБ, БСКВУ разрабатывались предприятиями-соисполнителями в рамках договоров на выполнение ОКР (СЧ ОКР), заключенных ФГУП ГНПРКЦ «ЦСКБ «Прогресс» и изготавливались по конструкторской документации, входящей в комплект документов разрабатываемого изделия, и являются составными частями опытного образца изделия 14Ф137.
https://rospravosudie.com/court-as-goroda-moskvy-s/judge-sizova-olga-vladimirovna-s/act-309197056/
« Last Edit: 08/19/2014 06:22 pm by Stan Black »

Offline B. Hendrickx

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Celestrak data shows that Kosmos-2486, the second Persona (14F137) optical reconnaissance satellite, has not made any orbit corrections since at least July 2020 (and probably longer) (see attachment 1). This indicates that it is no longer active. The third Persona, Kosmos-2506, has made several maneuvers in recent months and seems to be operational (see attachment 2). Both satellites (launched in 2013 and 2015) have most likely exceeded their design lifetime by a significant margin.

If Kosmos-2486 has indeed been decommissioned, that would leave Russia with just a single active optical reconnaissance satellite in orbit (not taking into account the topographical Bars-M satellites, which probably have low resolution). The Russian military could also use high-resolution imagery from the civilian Resurs-P satellites, but all three satellites launched thus far have broken down. The lack of imaging satellites undoubtedly has a significant effect on Russia’s intelligence gathering capability during the war in Ukraine.

As a stopgap measure, Russia may rely on imagery obtained by Iran’s Khayyam satellite, which has two daylight passes over Ukraine every morning. The satellite and most of its ground infrastructure were provided to Iran by Russia on a turnkey basis. Three small reconnaissance satellites of the VNIIEM Corporation (MKA 1, 2 and 3, possibly also called Razbeg), which were scheduled for launch in the second half of last year, may go up in the coming weeks or months. They may be identical or similar to Khayyam and could be launched together by a single Soyuz rocket.  The true successors of Persona are the KH-11 class Razdan satellites of the Progress Rocket and Space Center, two of which are known to be under construction. They are years behind schedule and it’s not clear when they will be ready to fly.   



Offline Steven Pietrobon

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As a stopgap measure, Russia may rely on imagery obtained by Iran’s Khayyam satellite, which has two daylight passes over Ukraine every morning.

China could also be providing images of Ukraine to Russia.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline B. Hendrickx

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As a stopgap measure, Russia may rely on imagery obtained by Iran’s Khayyam satellite, which has two daylight passes over Ukraine every morning.

China could also be providing images of Ukraine to Russia.

Anything is possible, but as far as we can tell, China does not (yet) intend to provide military support for Russia's war effort in Ukraine. Sharing satellite images with Russia would be doing exactly that, so I'm not so sure.

Iran is a different story. They have no qualms about supplying Russia with kamikaze drones, so providing the satellite imagery is just a small step compared to that. Plus the fact that Khayyam and its ground infrastructure are Russian-built.

Offline B. Hendrickx

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As a stopgap measure, Russia may rely on imagery obtained by Iran’s Khayyam satellite, which has two daylight passes over Ukraine every morning.

China could also be providing images of Ukraine to Russia.

Anything is possible, but as far as we can tell, China does not (yet) intend to provide military support for Russia's war effort in Ukraine. Sharing satellite images with Russia would be doing exactly that, so I'm not so sure.

Somewhat off-topic here, but now that we're on the subject:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-64421915
Quote
Ukraine: US sanctions Chinese firm helping Russia's Wagner Group

The US has sanctioned a Chinese company for allegedly providing satellite imagery of Ukraine to support the mercenary Wagner Group's combat operations for Russia. Changsha Tianyi Space Science and Technology Research Institute is among 16 entities slapped with curbs by the Treasury Department. The firm, also known as Spacety China, has offices in Beijing and Luxembourg.Wagner supplies Russia thousands of fighters in the Ukraine war.

Spacety China had provided Terra Tech, a Russia-based technology firm, with synthetic aperture radar (SAR) satellite images of locations in Ukraine, the US Treasury Department's Office of Foreign Assets Control said in a statement on Thursday.
"These images were gathered in order to enable Wagner combat operations in Ukraine," it said. The department has also sanctioned Spacety's Luxembourg-based subsidiary. Under the sanctions, there can be no transfer, payment, or export of any property or interests in the United States to the targeted entities. Spacety China has yet to respond to the move.

China, a close ally of Russia, has attempted to position itself as a neutral party with regard to the Ukraine war. It has been criticised by the US and its allies for refusing to condemn Russia's invasion of Ukraine. On its website, Spacety China describes itself as a "pioneer" in providing commercial SAR technology and says it wants to "make SAR imagery of every point on earth accessible and affordable" to users all over the world. Its chief executive officer Yang Feng sits on China's Ministry of Science and Technology's panel of experts, according to the company's website. The site also lists a number of working partners including state-owned enterprises China Aerospace Science and Industry Corporation and China Electronics Technology Group Corporation, as well as the University of Chinese Academy of Sciences.
...


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