Author Topic: Northrop teams with Firefly  (Read 71523 times)

Offline Jim

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Re: Northrop teams with Firefly
« Reply #120 on: 08/25/2022 07:54 pm »
The GEM63 and XL are off shelf in that NG has production line for them.

Likely ULA exclusive use.
Omega was going to us GEM63XLT.


That is neither of them nor off the shelf.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Northrop teams with Firefly
« Reply #121 on: 08/25/2022 09:53 pm »
The GEM63 and XL are off shelf in that NG has production line for them.

Likely ULA exclusive use.
Omega was going to us GEM63XLT.


That is neither of them nor off the shelf.
Close enough that development and tooling costs aren't that significant.

They could of cause use GEM63 or XL unless ULA paid for development and have sole rights to them.
« Last Edit: 08/25/2022 09:55 pm by TrevorMonty »

Offline Comga

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Re: Northrop teams with Firefly
« Reply #122 on: 08/30/2022 02:25 am »
Given how many times FH has flown not worth extra R&D. SRBs are off the shelf.

No, they are not.  And they are SRM's.  SRB is a Shuttle booster using a Shuttle SRM and it is also what ULA calls the Atlas V SRMs as configured for launch.  It is not a generic term.
The GEM63 and XL are off shelf in that NG has production line for them.
(snip)
Sigh
IMO Jim can often be more correct than informative (You too, TM.) but can we give it a rest and take from his posts that the professionals who bolt them on as hardware always refer to them as SRMs (Motors) and from the many alternative sources that SRB (Booster) is a common colloquialism?
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline Ronsmytheiii

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Re: Northrop teams with Firefly
« Reply #123 on: 08/30/2022 11:48 am »
Still need a new pad and upperstage.  Wallops was a big mistake

Might not get to GTO/GEO from Wallops, but with the much bigger mega constellations using higher inclination orbits isnt Wallops positioned well?

The GEO market has pretty much evaporated over the past few years, and while there will be a surge of the C-Band replacement satellites after that going to be slow years, where as mega constellations will have consistent refresh needs.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Northrop teams with Firefly
« Reply #124 on: 08/30/2022 03:58 pm »
Still need a new pad and upperstage.  Wallops was a big mistake
Wallops isn’t a mistake because I can see Wallops launches from my backyard. ;)
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Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Northrop teams with Firefly
« Reply #125 on: 08/30/2022 06:40 pm »
Still need a new pad and upperstage.  Wallops was a big mistake
Wallops isn’t a mistake because I can see Wallops launches from my backyard. ;)
RL have choosen Wallops twice now to build new launch sites.

Offline Ronsmytheiii

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Re: Northrop teams with Firefly
« Reply #126 on: 08/30/2022 11:57 pm »
Still need a new pad and upperstage.  Wallops was a big mistake
Wallops isn’t a mistake because I can see Wallops launches from my backyard. ;)

Well to be fair, under the right circumstances and launch inclinations you would be able to see Florida launches from your yard. Just the second stage, not the first :P.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Northrop teams with Firefly
« Reply #127 on: 09/09/2022 02:36 am »
Just watch Everyday Astronaut Firefly video from late 2021. Tom said they were partnering with industry leader to speed up development of Beta. Comments at 55:00.

This partnership could be why AE Industrial  were happy to put more money into company.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Northrop teams with Firefly
« Reply #128 on: 10/01/2022 07:47 am »
A little bit of history on AEI.

https://techcrunch.com/2022/03/22/firefly-aerospace-spac-merger-fcc-filing/

If Redwire is anything to go by AEI will be looking of exit strategy.  SPAC won't work in current market which makes NGIS best option, whether that is full or partial buyout.

Re: Northrop teams with Firefly
« Reply #129 on: 10/01/2022 10:24 pm »
I imagine this has to be nearly as good a day for the Antares team as it is for Firefly.
Wait, ∆V? This site will accept the ∆ symbol? How many times have I written out the word "delta" for no reason?

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Northrop teams with Firefly
« Reply #130 on: 10/04/2022 05:51 pm »
twitter.com/northropgrumman/status/1577354693713354752

Quote
Congratulations to the @Firefly_Space team on your successful launch! We look forward to collaborating with you to upgrade the first stage of our #Antares rocket and co-develop our future medium launch vehicle. 🚀

https://twitter.com/firefly_space/status/1577355225026809861

Quote
Thanks Northrop Grumman! The team is excited to be partnering with you.

Offline Dmitry_V_home

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Re: Northrop teams with Firefly
« Reply #131 on: 10/21/2022 03:27 pm »

Offline RyanC

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Re: Northrop teams with Firefly
« Reply #132 on: 10/26/2022 12:27 am »
I'd like to point out that if PWR had kept on developing the F-1B engine concept from 2011, they'd have had a really good chance of getting this contract.

Online Jer

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Re: Northrop teams with Firefly
« Reply #133 on: 10/28/2022 06:18 pm »
I'd like to point out that if PWR had kept on developing the F-1B engine concept from 2011, they'd have had a really good chance of getting this contract.

Like what happened with the AR-1, developing an 'orphan' engine is a waste of time and money. The F1-B never had a real chance because the whole point of the SLS was to keep giving the old Shuttle suppliers new contracts.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Northrop teams with Firefly
« Reply #134 on: 11/05/2022 05:05 pm »
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1588951348187389953

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Some discussion about the successor of Antares 230+, the Antares 330, and future MLV vehicle, at the briefing, including that Northrop/Firefly keeping open the option of making the first stage of MLV reusable.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Northrop teams with Firefly
« Reply #135 on: 11/05/2022 05:15 pm »
From Cygnus NG-18 pre-flight press briefing today:

https://twitter.com/spcplcyonline/status/1588949239425634305

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NG's Kurt Eberly says new Antares 330 with domestically sourced (Firefly) first stage in late 2024 will be able to launch 10,500 kg compared to nominal 8,100 kg for this version.

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Northrop teams with Firefly
« Reply #136 on: 12/26/2022 11:08 pm »
On the one hand, this big powerful new first stage is begging for a heavier upper stage or stages.  Northrop could do this as a two-step process, flying Antares 330 with Castor 30XL to complete its ISS cargo obligations, then developing a multi-step solid or restart-able liquid upper stage to expand its launch capabilities. 

On the other hand, Northrop might only be doing Antares 330 out of necessity, since the CRS profits are likely in the Cygnus payload.  Complete the obligation to NASA, then let Firefly go off and finish the more capable all-liquid rocket on its own to fly out of the Cape.

Will be interesting to see what happens.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline Redclaws

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Re: Northrop teams with Firefly
« Reply #137 on: 12/26/2022 11:17 pm »
On the other hand, Northrop might only be doing Antares 330 out of necessity, since the CRS profits are likely in the Cygnus payload.  Complete the obligation to NASA, then let Firefly go off and finish the more capable all-liquid rocket on its own to fly out of the Cape.

Given the degree of competition in the launch market, both current and upcoming (even ignoring things like Starship), this seems by far the most likely - It seems like a lot of companies are willing to burn money trying to get in right now.  I can't imagine NG wanting in on that.

Offline trimeta

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Re: Northrop teams with Firefly
« Reply #138 on: 12/27/2022 02:20 am »
On the other hand, Northrop might only be doing Antares 330 out of necessity, since the CRS profits are likely in the Cygnus payload.  Complete the obligation to NASA, then let Firefly go off and finish the more capable all-liquid rocket on its own to fly out of the Cape.

Given the degree of competition in the launch market, both current and upcoming (even ignoring things like Starship), this seems by far the most likely - It seems like a lot of companies are willing to burn money trying to get in right now.  I can't imagine NG wanting in on that.
Hasn't NG said that they will be working with Firefly to develop the MLV (neé Beta) vehicle? So there's definitely no reason NG would build a separate Antares evolution using the Antares 330 first stage: MLV is the evolution that NG is working on.

This close and continued collaboration between the two companies is part of why I have a hard time imagining them still being separate in five years.

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: Northrop teams with Firefly
« Reply #139 on: 12/27/2022 03:01 am »
<snip>
This close and continued collaboration between the two companies is part of why I have a hard time imagining them still being separate in five years.
Who will be still be around after the next 5 years as a launch provider? Northrop Grumman could let Firefly take over the launch business and concentrated on the more profitable payload side of the business.

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