Author Topic: Weiler to Replace Stern as NASA Science Chief  (Read 9145 times)

Offline simonbp

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Weiler to Replace Stern as NASA Science Chief
« on: 03/26/2008 02:46 pm »
http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/080326-sn-stern-resigns.html

(Pretty darn surprising; Stern was well-liked by a lot of the science community)

Simon ;)

Offline Jim

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Re: Weiler to Replace Stern as NASA Science Chief
« Reply #1 on: 03/26/2008 02:48 pm »
This will hurt

Offline rsp1202

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RE: Weiler to Replace Stern as NASA Science Chief
« Reply #2 on: 03/26/2008 03:10 pm »
I had heard he was a possible Griffin successor, but now . . . ?

Offline Stowbridge

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Re: Weiler to Replace Stern as NASA Science Chief
« Reply #3 on: 03/26/2008 03:27 pm »
Quote
simonbp - 26/3/2008  10:46 AM

a lot of the science community



Which means he is not in a strong position. There's a major transition for manned space flight. This is rightly where the concentration is going to be. Stock has reduced greatly in rock samples and various unmanned what-evers.

If he had become the NASA head, it would have been an unmitigating disaster for manned space flight.

Veteran space reporter.

Offline Jim

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Re: Weiler to Replace Stern as NASA Science Chief
« Reply #4 on: 03/26/2008 03:29 pm »
Quote
Stowbridge - 26/3/2008  12:27 PM

If he had become the NASA head, it would have been an unmitigating disaster for manned space flight.


Based on what?  Griffin's background wasn'tmanned spaceflight either

Offline general

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RE: Weiler to Replace Stern as NASA Science Chief
« Reply #5 on: 03/26/2008 03:31 pm »
Apparently Griffin didn't like the Press about shutting down the Mars Rovers due to budget pressures.

Sounds like Griffin wasn't in the loop on the decision, and Stern took the fall.

Offline space.anonymous

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Re: Weiler to Replace Stern as NASA Science Chief
« Reply #6 on: 03/26/2008 03:51 pm »
Quote
Jim - 26/3/2008  11:48 AM
This will hurt

In what way(s)?

Do you think we're losing a good AA or gaining a bad one?


Offline Antares

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Re: Weiler to Replace Stern as NASA Science Chief
« Reply #7 on: 03/26/2008 04:45 pm »
We're losing an awesome AA.  A technical guy with leadership and business acumen.  He's got an ego, but he listens to his troops unlike MG.  What technical branch one comes from shouldn't matter, just that the decisionmaking is sound.
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Offline Analyst

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Re: Weiler to Replace Stern as NASA Science Chief
« Reply #8 on: 03/26/2008 04:49 pm »
Well, this is a surprise. After less than a year.

Quote
Stowbridge - 26/3/2008  6:27 PM

Quote
simonbp - 26/3/2008  10:46 AM

a lot of the science community

1) Which means he is not in a strong position. There's a major transition for manned space flight. This is rightly where the concentration is going to be.
2) Stock has reduced greatly in rock samples and various unmanned what-evers.
3) If he had become the NASA head, it would have been an unmitigating disaster for manned space flight.

1) No, there are (still) alternatives. Science is the reason for all NASA does in space. Going to the moon is (or should be) about science.
2) Maybe its because I am not a native English speaker. But I don't understand your point.
3) More disaster than right now? Where do you base your opinion?

Quote
general - 26/3/2008  6:31 PM

Apparently Griffin didn't like the Press about shutting down the Mars Rovers due to budget pressures. Sounds like Griffin wasn't in the loop on the decision, and Stern took the fall.

Do you have proof for this? Seems pretty fast, one or two days after the rover funding issue.

Quote
space.anonymous - 26/3/2008  6:51 PM

Do you think we're losing a good AA or gaining a bad one?

Losing a adequate one I would say and gaining one with prior experience in science who has been in charge of science after the Mars 1999 failures.

Stern did push for Mars sample return, which is important imho, but almost unfundable within the current science budget without giving up almost everything else we do at Mars. He also did push for for the next flagship, which is right. He had a hard time with constant or shrinking science budgets and massively declining numbers of new missions. Weiler is a new person, but the fundamentals remain the same at least until Griffin leaves. So better or worse, I don't know. Probably not much different, EADS will still suck the money.

Analyst

Offline Jim

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Re: Weiler to Replace Stern as NASA Science Chief
« Reply #9 on: 03/26/2008 04:51 pm »
good one

Offline psloss

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Re: Weiler to Replace Stern as NASA Science Chief
« Reply #10 on: 03/26/2008 05:44 pm »
Quote
Analyst - 26/3/2008  1:49 PM

Well, this is a surprise. After less than a year.

Quote
Stowbridge - 26/3/2008  6:27 PM

1) Which means he is not in a strong position. There's a major transition for manned space flight. This is rightly where the concentration is going to be.
2) Stock has reduced greatly in rock samples and various unmanned what-evers.
3) If he had become the NASA head, it would have been an unmitigating disaster for manned space flight.

1) No, there are (still) alternatives. Science is the reason for all NASA does in space. Going to the moon is (or should be) about science.
2) Maybe its because I am not a native English speaker. But I don't understand your point.
3) More disaster than right now? Where do you base your opinion?

Is science NASA's reason to be, should science be that reason, or are there more, competing priorities?  (My reading of NASA's charter is that it's more broad than science.)

The other points about "stock" in unmanned science and "disaster" for manned spaceflight are based on the stated opinion (so probably not objective) that human spaceflight should currently have a higher priority and appropriations emphasis than science.

I will be interested to see if there is any fallout from Dr. Stern's resignation.

NASAWatch has a bit more now, too:
http://www.nasawatch.com/archives/2008/03/alan_stern_is_l.html

Offline Analyst

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Re: Weiler to Replace Stern as NASA Science Chief
« Reply #11 on: 03/26/2008 05:59 pm »
Quote
psloss - 26/3/2008  8:44 PM

Is science NASA's reason to be, should science be that reason, or are there more, competing priorities?

It is, imo. If not, it should. But this is my subjective opinion.

Analyst

Offline simonbp

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Re: Weiler to Replace Stern as NASA Science Chief
« Reply #12 on: 03/26/2008 08:15 pm »
Quote
psloss - 26/3/2008  12:44 PM

Is science NASA's reason to be, should science be that reason, or are there more, competing priorities?  (My reading of NASA's charter is that it's more broad than science.)

The other points about "stock" in unmanned science and "disaster" for manned spaceflight are based on the stated opinion (so probably not objective) that human spaceflight should currently have a higher priority and appropriations emphasis than science.

IMHO, that's the mindset that has poisoned the cooperation between the space science and manned spaceflight communities. Somewhere along the way, the myths that "all science must be unmanned" and "manned missions can ignore science" got ingrained into NASA culture. Both of these are patently untrue.

For example, the first two Apollo landings were pure engineering demonstrations. After that, NASA progressively let more the scientists have more and more say over the missions, to the point that 15-17 were targeted, arranged, and (in one case) conducted by trained geologists, using the manned spaceflight community as a resource. This is how it should work.

On the opposite side is the ISS. Rather than having set science goals in the start, NASA designed the station with Shuttle-style rack space and took a "if you build it, they will come" mentality, and then were surprised when very few people came. Had they allowed the station design to be driven by what was actually useful (e.g. any sort of astronomy), rather than what the engineers assumed to be useful (gobs of unused rack space), then ISS wouldn't be such a white elephant...

The point here is that manned spaceflight is about science-driven exploration. Engineering gets you there, but it's a means, not an end. From the few times I've heard him talk, Stern understood this; I believe Griffin understands too; I really hope their successors also do...

Simon ;)

Offline Antares

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Re: Weiler to Replace Stern as NASA Science Chief
« Reply #13 on: 03/27/2008 12:35 am »
Weiler made us change, IIRC, a GEM with a delam'd nozzle that we had good rationale to fly.

Stern understood the Atlas V test tank failure and made the decision to launch Pluto New Horizons on time.
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Re: Weiler to Replace Stern as NASA Science Chief
« Reply #14 on: 03/27/2008 01:11 am »
Have issues with Griffin, but Stern's been getting excellent results from budget (that we can know of) and a lot of quick, good decisions. It's real bad for NASA to lose him. One of Griffin's best picks.

Offline Jorge

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Re: Weiler to Replace Stern as NASA Science Chief
« Reply #15 on: 03/27/2008 02:26 am »
Quote
Analyst - 26/3/2008  12:49 PM

Well, this is a surprise. After less than a year.

Quote
Stowbridge - 26/3/2008  6:27 PM

1) Which means he is not in a strong position. There's a major transition for manned space flight. This is rightly where the concentration is going to be.

1) No, there are (still) alternatives. Science is the reason for all NASA does in space.

Umm, wrong. That's not even a matter for opinion; NASA's charter enumerates a whole list of reasons for what NASA does in space, and science is only one of them. It's a matter of opinion whether it *should* be the only reason, but it's not an opinion I could agree with. Personally, not only is science not the only reason, it's not even the most important reason. The more important goals being, in order:

1) To take the first steps, however small, towards Homo sapiens becoming a multi-planet species, and
2) To bring the solar system within humanity's economic sphere.

Obviously there's quite a bit of science that needs to be done to enable those goals, but it is properly a means to those ends rather than an end in itself.

I would go so far as to argue that those priorities apply not just to the manned program, but "spill over" into the unmanned program as well. Clearly there is some reflection of that in the direction the unmanned program has followed over the last 15 years; we have sent more spacecraft to Mars than all other solar system destinations combined over that period. That cannot possibly be a reflection of the intrinsic scientific merit of Mars; it is scientifically interesting but not so interesting that it should get more than 50% of the spacecraft. No, Mars, gets the interest because it is the next destination for manned spacecraft that humans have not already visited - and, it follows, if there were no interest in sending manned spacecraft to Mars, we'd be doing quite a bit less unmanned Mars exploration as well.
JRF

Offline yinzer

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Re: Weiler to Replace Stern as NASA Science Chief
« Reply #16 on: 03/27/2008 04:19 am »
Quote
Jorge - 26/3/2008  8:26 PM
I would go so far as to argue that those priorities apply not just to the manned program, but "spill over" into the unmanned program as well. Clearly there is some reflection of that in the direction the unmanned program has followed over the last 15 years; we have sent more spacecraft to Mars than all other solar system destinations combined over that period. That cannot possibly be a reflection of the intrinsic scientific merit of Mars; it is scientifically interesting but not so interesting that it should get more than 50% of the spacecraft. No, Mars, gets the interest because it is the next destination for manned spacecraft that humans have not already visited - and, it follows, if there were no interest in sending manned spacecraft to Mars, we'd be doing quite a bit less unmanned Mars exploration as well.

I don't think that the cause and effect are straight here.  Mars is emotionally interesting. You can see it with your naked eye and make out features with a small telescope.  Pictures of the landscape resemble Earth.  There may have been life there.  There may still be life there.  It's also much easier to reach than anywhere else with the possible exception of the moon.
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Offline simonbp

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Re: Weiler to Replace Stern as NASA Science Chief
« Reply #17 on: 03/27/2008 04:03 pm »
Quote
Jorge - 26/3/2008  9:26 PM

Umm, wrong. That's not even a matter for opinion; NASA's charter enumerates a whole list of reasons for what NASA does in space, and science is only one of them.
....
Obviously there's quite a bit of science that needs to be done to enable those goals, but it is properly a means to those ends rather than an end in itself.

Quote
The NASA Charter:
(1) plan, direct, and conduct aeronautical and space activities;
(2) arrange for participation by the scientific community in planning scientific measurements and observations to be made through use of aeronautical and space vehicles, and conduct or arrange for the conduct of such measurements and observations;
(3) provide for the widest practicable and appropriate dissemination of information concerning its activities and the results thereof;
(4) seek and encourage, to the maximum extent possible, the fullest commercial use of space; and
(5) encourage and provide for Federal Government use of commercially provided space services and hardware, consistent with the requirements of the Federal Government.

So, yes science is just one of those goals, BUT it is second only to actually going to space. Indeed, by the ordering in the charter, public dissemination of knowledge is more important than promoting commercial activity. The reason is simply that the commercial market is good at promoting itself, but not very good at conducting science that doesn't have an immediate profit...

Quote
Jorge - 26/3/2008  9:26 PM
Clearly there is some reflection of that in the direction the unmanned program has followed over the last 15 years; we have sent more spacecraft to Mars than all other solar system destinations combined over that period. That cannot possibly be a reflection of the intrinsic scientific merit of Mars; it is scientifically interesting but not so interesting that it should get more than 50% of the spacecraft. No, Mars, gets the interest because it is the next destination for manned spacecraft that humans have not already visited...

No, it's because in 1996 a few scientists at JSC announced a (now-discredited) discovery of potential Martian life. Before 1996, all we had was Pathfinder, a bargain-basement $150 million mission, and MGS, a re-fly of Mars Observer. After 1996, we started throwing spacecraft at Mars at a regular rate, with the hope of finding that elusive Martian life. A dozen years on, that case for life is still confused, with the pessimists gaining traction (though not in official NASA circles). Anyway, IMHO, a near-Earth asteroid will the next target after the moon, as it's so much easier than landing on Mars...

Getting back on topic, it was partially Stern's contempt for the entitlement the Mars program seemed to have that lead to his downfall. That said, I doubt you've heard the last of S. Alan Stern; he's still relative young and well-known...

Simon ;)

Offline Norm Hartnett

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RE: Weiler to Replace Stern as NASA Science Chief
« Reply #18 on: 03/27/2008 04:59 pm »
NASAWatch says SMD Chief Scientist John Mather is leaving NASA HQ.

Why do I keep getting the visual of Dr. Griffin as a sinking ship?

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Offline George CA

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RE: Weiler to Replace Stern as NASA Science Chief
« Reply #19 on: 03/27/2008 07:20 pm »
It's just the science element that are jumping. No loss. NASA needs to get back to full concentration on manned space flight.

Take your choice. Manned mission to the moon and Mars, or more Rovers? It's the easiest decision ever and if Griffin is causing the deadwood to jump, good.
"One Percent for Space"

Offline Jim

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RE: Weiler to Replace Stern as NASA Science Chief
« Reply #20 on: 03/27/2008 07:39 pm »
Quote
George CA - 27/3/2008  4:20 PM

It's just the science element that are jumping. No loss. NASA needs to get back to full concentration on manned space flight.

Take your choice. Manned mission to the moon and Mars, or more Rovers? It's the easiest decision ever and if Griffin is causing the deadwood to jump, good.

Huh?   Glad you are not in charge.  That is completely wrong.  Manned flight is not NASA's only mission.   And it wrongly has NASA's biggest portion of  funds.

Mike G is going to cause the downfall of NASA

Offline Chris Bergin

RE: Weiler to Replace Stern as NASA Science Chief
« Reply #21 on: 03/27/2008 07:41 pm »
Quote
George CA - 27/3/2008  8:20 PM

It's just the science element that are jumping. No loss. NASA needs to get back to full concentration on manned space flight.

Take your choice. Manned mission to the moon and Mars, or more Rovers? It's the easiest decision ever and if Griffin is causing the deadwood to jump, good.

Don't go calling anyone deadwood. It's disrespectful.
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Offline eeergo

RE: Weiler to Replace Stern as NASA Science Chief
« Reply #22 on: 03/27/2008 08:22 pm »

Quote
George CA - 27/3/2008  9:20 PM  It's just the science element that are jumping. No loss. NASA needs to get back to full concentration on manned space flight.  Take your choice. Manned mission to the moon and Mars, or more Rovers? It's the easiest decision ever and if Griffin is causing the deadwood to jump, good.

Wow... talking about fine-balancing and wisely managing, here we have a counter-example... that simplistic one-or-the-other view is so deeply short-sighted that it manages to annoy.

I'd like to know what all those rockets would do without science... in fact, I wonder if your dreamnt spaceship would ever leave LEO or even the good, old ground in one piece and with living people inside, were it not for the efforts of that boring and grim deadwood.

Talking about more interesting matters, what's Weiler's background, specifically in his new assignment, science? 

-DaviD-

Offline Blackstar

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RE: Weiler to Replace Stern as NASA Science Chief
« Reply #23 on: 03/27/2008 08:28 pm »
Quote
George CA - 27/3/2008  3:20 PM

It's just the science element that are jumping. No loss. NASA needs to get back to full concentration on manned space flight.

Take your choice. Manned mission to the moon and Mars, or more Rovers? It's the easiest decision ever and if Griffin is causing the deadwood to jump, good.

Before posting an opinion that comes from your spleen, at least consider some of the issues involved.

For now I'll just explain that the space world is nothing like how you portray it.  It's not an either/or situation.  It's not "human missions to the Moon" versus Mars rovers.  Please, just look at the relative size of the budgets (hint: human spaceflight already dominates NASA's budget and organization).  And it's not a case of NASA needing to "concentrate" on one thing or the other.  They can do both, because traditionally they _have_ done both.

Offline renclod

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RE: Weiler to Replace Stern as NASA Science Chief
« Reply #24 on: 03/27/2008 08:29 pm »
Quote
eeergo - 28/3/2008  12:22 AM

Talking about more interesting matters, what's Weiler's background, specifically in his new assignment, science? 


http://www.space.com/news/080326-weiler-interview.html
An Interview with NASA's Next Science Chief
By BRIAN BERGER
Space News Staff Writer
posted: 26 March 2008 04:46 pm ET

Not one of the faint of heart, if you ask me.


Offline Blackstar

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RE: Weiler to Replace Stern as NASA Science Chief
« Reply #25 on: 03/27/2008 08:30 pm »
Quote
eeergo - 27/3/2008  4:22 PM
Talking about more interesting matters, what's Weiler's background, specifically in his new assignment, science?

Best bet is to Google him.

Quick answer: former chief scientist for Hubble, former AA for science at NASA, and Goddard Space Flight Center director.  He is returning to a job that he held in the 1990s, so he is not a newbie.

Offline eeergo

Re: Weiler to Replace Stern as NASA Science Chief
« Reply #26 on: 03/27/2008 09:48 pm »
Thanks for the answers there. I agree with your comment, renclod, although he could have given more insight into his future policies... well, I suppose he's just getting the grip of it.

Alan was young an enthusiastic, maybe a bit overly so sometimes, although not for my taste. Let's hope Brian has not lost that enthusiasm just because he's older and has worked on this before.
-DaviD-

Offline psloss

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Re: Weiler to Replace Stern as NASA Science Chief
« Reply #27 on: 03/27/2008 10:21 pm »
Quote
eeergo - 27/3/2008  6:48 PM

Alan was young an enthusiastic, maybe a bit overly so sometimes, although not for my taste. Let's hope Brian has not lost that enthusiasm just because he's older and has worked on this before.
You mean Ed?

Damn I'm old -- alright, everyone stop being younger than me...I remember seeing Mr. Weiler in press briefings quite a lot before the Hubble launch and then during the tumultuous periods between then and the first servicing mission.

Offline eeergo

Re: Weiler to Replace Stern as NASA Science Chief
« Reply #28 on: 03/27/2008 10:25 pm »

Quote
psloss - 28/3/2008 12:21 AM
Quote
eeergo - 27/3/2008 6:48 PM Alan was young an enthusiastic, maybe a bit overly so sometimes, although not for my taste. Let's hope Brian has not lost that enthusiasm just because he's older and has worked on this before.
You mean Ed? Damn I'm old -- alright, everyone stop being younger than me...I remember seeing Mr. Weiler in press briefings quite a lot before the Hubble launch and then during the tumultuous periods between then and the first servicing mission.

Yes of course, sorry, I glanced at the article and saw the reporter's name... I guess I'm not old but sometimes behave worse than if I was ;)

-DaviD-

Online jacqmans

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RE: Weiler to Replace Stern as NASA Science Chief
« Reply #29 on: 05/07/2008 06:40 pm »
RELEASE: 08-114

WEILER ASSUMES OFFICIAL ROLE AS NASA SCIENCE CHIEF

WASHINGTON -- Administrator Michael Griffin announced Wednesday that
Ed Weiler will remain as NASA's associate administrator for the
agency's Science Mission Directorate. Weiler was named interim chief
of the directorate March 26.

"I'm very pleased to have Ed officially accept a more long-term
position as science chief. His leadership style and 26 years of
Headquarters experience will be vital to the success of upcoming
science activities and missions," said Griffin.

As chief executive of NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Weiler will
direct a wide variety of research and scientific exploration programs
for Earth studies, space weather, the solar system, and the universe.
In addition, he will manage a broad spectrum of grant-based research
programs and spacecraft projects.

Weiler was appointed director of NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center,
Greenbelt, Md., in August 2004. Previously, he had served as the
associate administrator for the agency's Space Science Enterprise
from 1998 to 2004.

Prior to his selection as associate administrator, Weiler served as
the director of the Astronomical Search for Origins Program at NASA
Headquarters in Washington. He was a member of the Princeton
University Space Astrophysics Research Staff from 1976 until 1978.
Weiler joined Headquarters in 1978 as a staff scientist and was
promoted to the chief of the Ultraviolet/Visible and Gravitational
Astrophysics Division in 1979. He also served as the chief scientist
for the Hubble Space Telescope from 1979 until 1998.

A native of Chicago, Weiler earned his doctorate in Astrophysics from
Northwestern University in 1976.

For more information about NASA and its science programs, visit:

http://nasascience.nasa.gov
Jacques :-)

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