Author Topic: Modern US launchers certified for the missions w/RTG onboard  (Read 13262 times)

Offline shiro

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Atlas V rockets have been the choice for launching all NASA's RTG-equipped deep space probes for nearly two decades, including New Horizons and the latest Mars rovers. Future NASA missions, such as Dragonfly set for 2028, will not have access to these rockets. Do we have any reliable information on which modern LV would be certified for launches with radioactive materials onboard? Falcon 9/Heavy, Vulcan, or probably both? (I'm just wondering about the possibility of Trident mission and the actual mass constrains to keep it somewhat low-budget).

Offline DanClemmensen

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Atlas V rockets have been the choice for launching all NASA's RTG-equipped deep space probes for nearly two decades, including New Horizons and the latest Mars rovers. Future NASA missions, such as Dragonfly set for 2028, will not have access to these rockets. Do we have any reliable information on which modern LV would be certified for launches with radioactive materials onboard? Falcon 9/Heavy, Vulcan, or probably both? (I'm just wondering about the possibility of Trident mission and the actual mass constrains to keep it somewhat low-budget).
Who performs the certification, how is it paid for, and what are the requirements?

Offline edkyle99

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I don't know how any existing launch vehicle, in the modern era of litigation, can be thus certified.  Falcon 9 v1.2 is the most reliable orbital launch vehicle devised to date.   330+ consecutive successes.  Yet on July 12 one failed during Starlink 9-3, leaving a second stage and payload in a degrading orbit from which they soon reentered - somewhere - spreading a path of debris over some part of the planet. 

Upper stage and payload debris is one thing when partly disintegrated and spread uncontrolled over an area of the planet.  Plutonium 238 is another. 

Also, years ago now, before all of those successes, a Falcon 9 blew up on SLC 40, exploding and, more importantly for this discussion, burning.  An RTG in that circumstance could result in a substantial decontamination zone that would have to be closed for an extended period of time, encompassing, perhaps, multiple nearby launch sites and support facilities.

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 08/18/2024 06:40 pm by edkyle99 »

Offline shiro

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Who performs the certification, how is it paid for, and what are the requirements?

AFAIK the certification is done by NASA, and for launching the spacecraft with RTG onboard your need a Category 3 LV with some additional requirements for FTS (aka "nuclear rating"). Since F9 is regularly launching crewed missions, I assume it is already "Category 3" certified, nevertheless, at least some paperwork needs to be done before NASA could fly Dragonfly on Falcon Heavy.

Falcon 9 v1.2 is the most reliable orbital launch vehicle devised to date.   330+ consecutive successes.  Yet on July 12 one failed during Starlink 9-3, leaving a second stage and payload in a degrading orbit from which they soon reentered - somewhere - spreading a path of debris over some part of the planet. 

Upper stage and payload debris is one thing when partly disintegrated and spread uncontrolled over an area of the planet.  Plutonium 238 is another.
True, Falcon 9 seems to be the obvious choice in the terms of safety. Things might be a bit trickier for Falcon Heavy, however. Can't say anything about Vulcan so far. Titan IIIE launched Viking 1 on its 3rd flight, but it was another era.

Offline Jim

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Who performs the certification, how is it paid for, and what are the requirements?
NASA and the contractor, NASA, there are NASA docs

Offline Jim

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Yet on July 12 one failed during Starlink 9-3, leaving a second stage and payload in a degrading orbit from which they soon reentered - somewhere - spreading a path of debris over some part of the planet. 


Payload would be purposely deorbited (MSL and M2020 contingency ops) over an unpopulated area.


Also, years ago now, before all of those successes, a Falcon 9 blew up on SLC 40, exploding and, more importantly for this discussion, burning.  An RTG in that circumstance could result in a substantial decontamination zone that would have to be closed for an extended period of time, encompassing, perhaps, multiple nearby launch sites and support facilities.


RTG is designed to survive that
« Last Edit: 08/18/2024 09:52 pm by Jim »

Offline Jim

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True, Falcon 9 seems to be the obvious choice in the terms of safety. Things might be a bit trickier for Falcon Heavy, however. Can't say anything about Vulcan so far. Titan IIIE launched Viking 1 on its 3rd flight, but it was another era.


PNH on Atlas V 551

Offline Jim

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AFAIK the certification is done by NASA, and for launching the spacecraft with RTG onboard your need a Category 3 LV with some additional requirements for FTS (aka "nuclear rating"). Since F9 is regularly launching crewed missions, I assume it is already "Category 3" certified, nevertheless, at least some paperwork needs to be done before NASA could fly Dragonfly on Falcon Heavy.


Cat 3 cert and nuclear rating are completely different.  There is major work required for nuclear approval.
« Last Edit: 08/18/2024 10:13 pm by Jim »

Offline shiro

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Cat 3 cert and nuclear rating are completely different.  There is major work required for nuclear approval.
It seems like the "nuclear rating" is a bit more complicated than I previously thought.
Jim, many thanks for your - as always, insightful posts.

Offline Kit344


AFAIK the certification is done by NASA, and for launching the spacecraft with RTG onboard your need a Category 3 LV with some additional requirements for FTS (aka "nuclear rating"). Since F9 is regularly launching crewed missions, I assume it is already "Category 3" certified, nevertheless, at least some paperwork needs to be done before NASA could fly Dragonfly on Falcon Heavy.


Cat 3 cert and nuclear rating are completely different.  There is major work required for nuclear approval.


With the developing situation of 2024YR4, I'm thinking that a weapon delivery system might become a much higher priority in the next couple of years.
ULA currently has systems with a nuclear certification, but Falcon 9 has much higher availability. Falcon Heavy has also flown DoD payloads in the last year.
I think Starship / Super Heavy are currently well out of the race, due to reliability and stage of development.
Very interesting times ahead before December 2032 !

Offline Jim

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With the developing situation of 2024YR4, I'm thinking that a weapon delivery system might become a much higher priority in the next couple of years.


There is no such thing along of this thread and vehicles.

Offline Hobbes-22

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Payload would be purposely deorbited (MSL and M2020 contingency ops) over an unpopulated area.


That is, if the second stage failure was not energetic enough to damage the payload and make it uncontrollable.

Offline Jim

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Payload would be purposely deorbited (MSL and M2020 contingency ops) over an unpopulated area.


That is, if the second stage failure was not energetic enough to damage the payload and make it uncontrollable.

it was primarily for a failed restart

Offline dglow

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Wouldn't a F9 upper stage intended for an RTG mission receive far more attention and QC than one lined-up for a Starlink launch?

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