Unemployed Ares I Mobile Launcher set for Crawler trip

[JayP]

Was that one of the Saturn V MLP/LUTs? What eventually happened to it? Assume the MLP became a Shuttle MLP, but the LUT?

It was ML-1 with the milkstool added on for the later Saturn 1B launches. MLs 2 and 3 were dissasembled and converted to MLPs 2 and 1 respectively, but they held off on the last one for several years becuse of budget constraints (and because they didn't have a flight rate that would have needed it) Eventually they removed the tower and converted the base to MLP-3. The tower sat in pieces in a field neatr the admin area for years until it was cut up and scrapped in 2004. There was a grassroots campaing to preserve and display it called "Save the LUT".

http://www.savethelut.org/

[kraisee]

Wow.   That's a blast from the past...

Jeez, I was COO for the short-lived Space Restoration Society, in charge of that Save the LUT project.

I recall Jim Kennedy, Center Director for KSC at the time, bending over backwards to try to buy us a few more weeks to find funding ($40 million) when the team came in to demolish that tower.   We got so very close too, but the developer we brought in had, lets say 'dubious', backers.   We pulled the plug ourselves to avoid any chance of ever embarrassing NASA.

So sad.

The tower that launched Apollo 11.   And 4, 8 and all the Skylab & Apollo/Soyuz Sat-1B's.

I still clearly recall the two days I had to walk around in the boneyard behind the O&C building with LUT-1.   I have a perfect condition stainless steel bolt from deck 320 (crew deck) from when I was walking on it...   Almost the last place on Earth where Armstrong & Aldrin walked before walking on the Moon.

Sadly, today the steel from Apollo LUT-1 resides inside the 3-gorges dam project in China.   I still say this was a travesty.

Sorry, I know it's completely off-topic, but JayP's post brought back so many good, and sad, memories...

Ross.

[Namechange User]

Just to put this in perspective:

Columbia arriving at KSC prior to STS-1: (L-2 thread)

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=13715.msg432276#msg432276

Atlantis rolling into the OPF after STS-132:

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=21764.msg596240#msg596240

[Chris Bergin]

Just to put this in perspective:

Columbia arriving at KSC prior to STS-1: (L-2 thread)

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=13715.msg432276#msg432276

Atlantis rolling into the OPF after STS-132:

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=21764.msg596240#msg596240

Great linkage!

[zerm]

I recall being there to see Columbia arrive that day- and seeing the old LUT in the background. The orbiter arrival was quite a sight, but the old LUT sat there like a silent reminder of how things used to be. A college pal and I drove down to the KSC area in March 79 to see the Columbia come in on the SCA- from across the river she looked pretty good to us, but on the news that evening we saw all of missing tiles. Later in May of 79 a couple of us took the bus tour and saw Enterprise on the pad- as well as the "unemployed" Apollo LUT. I recall thinking about Columbia in the OPF where they were trying to fix the tiles and looking at that old LUT and wondering if what we now had was worth what we gave up.

Funny how the Ares I ML/LUT can can bring about the same type of thinking.

Our bus driver on that tour back in 79 talked about the Apollo LUT and said that the reason why it had sat out on Pad 39 from 1975 to 1978 was because there was never anything budgeted to cover the cost of going out and picking it up and bringing it back to the VAB parking area. But, he said, the shuttle budget was used to cover that so they made the move in order to clear LC39 for shuttle modification. Now, whether or not what he said is factual, I don't know- but it sounded about right that day on the bus.

[JayP]

...Almost the last place on Earth where Armstrong & Aldrin walked before walking on the Moon...
Ross.

Ross's post reminded me of an interesting bit of trivia. It is well known that the structure of the LUTs and their hammerhead cranes were recycled to make the Fixed Service Structures at pads A and B, but what is less known is that some of the Swing arms were reused as well. Arm 8 (the service module service arm) was rebuilt as the GOX vent hood arm and Arm 9 (the Comand Module access arm) became the Crew Access Arm. I'm Not precisely sure, but I believe that the components from ML-3 went to pad A and ML-2 went to Pad B. If that is the case, then when a shuttle crew walks across the CAA to board the Shuttle, they are walking along the same steel as the crews of Apollo 10, 13, 15, 16 and 17.

I know it is a bit OT, but I thought I would share.

[Patchouli]

The best thing I can think of what to do with it is either sell it to ULA or Spacex or see if it could be re-purposed for the HLV.

[Lars_J]

I don't think either SpaceX, Orbital, or ULA even want to touch that structure with a 10-foot pole.

[kraisee]

I would agree with that assessment.

I have heard that KSC wants to turn LC-39 into a government subsidized facility to encourage commercial operators to come in.   If all of the costs of the Tower maintenance and the Crawlers were subsidized, that Tower might not be too bad...

But on the flip-side, if there are still SRB operations going on inside the VAB (SD-HLV), I doubt any other commercial operator will be interested in being in there as well, so this is probably a completely moot point anyway.

Ross.

[robertross]

But on the flip-side, if there are still SRB operations going on inside the VAB (SD-HLV), I doubt any other commercial operator will be interested in being in there as well, so this is probably a completely moot point anyway.

Ross.

Hmm...that's a good point (obviously OT though, so I'll leave it at that).

[nooneofconsequence]

But on the flip-side, if there are still SRB operations going on inside the VAB (SD-HLV), I doubt any other commercial operator will be interested in being in there as well, so this is probably a completely moot point anyway.

Ross.

Hmm...that's a good point (obviously OT though, so I'll leave it at that).

This point is under spoken. The SRB's carry considerable additional costs including opportunity cost like this. VAB as an asset has been considerably underutilized (offices, highbays, other).

Part of the total picture of a LV's financial impact include these items. One area this directly impacts is the attempt to revamp launch facilities as a multipurpose facility - SRB's make it 'single-use'.

The advantage of multiple use facilities is a industry that isn't 'single threaded' as Shuttle/USA. Now that we are at the end  of Shuttle and there's nothing to jump to - one can appreciate the rationale in having other concurrent activities.

If you use SRB's in the VAB ... there's really no point in improving the facilities much - no wide platform for cost sharing.

[Patchouli]

I don't think either SpaceX, Orbital, or ULA even want to touch that structure with a 10-foot pole.

You're probably right even though Spacex did buy Beal aerospace's old test stand they had the MSS at LC-40 demolished.

Though BFR if it's ever built probably would need a tower that high.
Heck they might even have to operate it out of a facility like LC-39 since it's supposed to be a Saturn V class LV well more specifically the INT-21 variant.

[Chris Bergin]

Now happening this week! CT already under the Ares I ML.

Will see about writing up an update.

[Chris Bergin]

MEDIA ADVISORY: M48-10

NASA INVITES MEDIA TO NEW MOBILE LAUNCHER MOVE TO PARK SITE

CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. -- NASA's Kennedy Space Center, Fla., invites
media to view the new mobile launcher (ML) support structure's short
move from its construction site to the mobile launcher park site on
Friday, Oct. 1, at 9 a.m. EDT.

Media will be able to document the move, which is expected to take
about 30 minutes. Media need to be at Kennedy's Press Site by 8 a.m.
for transportation to the site.

Because the move time was changed on short notice, no new media badges
will be issued for this event. Only media who currently have Kennedy
credentials can attend the move.

All participants attending the event must be dressed in full-length
pants, flat shoes that cover the feet entirely and shirts with
sleeves.

Dates and times are subject to change. Please call the NASA News
Center information line at 321-867-2525 for updates.

At the park site, the ML can be outfitted with ground support
equipment, such as umbilicals and access arms, for future rocket
launches. It took about two years to construct the 355-foot-tall
structure, which will support NASA's future human spaceflight
program. The base of the launcher is lighter than space shuttle
mobile launcher platforms so the crawler-transporter can pick up the
heavier load of the tower and a taller rocket.

Video of the move will be available on NASA Television's Video File
Friday afternoon. For NASA TV streaming video, schedules and downlink
information, visit:

http://www.nasa.gov/ntv 

[Chris Bergin]

IF there's webcam coverage of this, we'll create a live thread, as it'll be a cool event.

[sdsds]

Let's keep this on the ML

Duly noted, though would it be on topic here to discuss the possibility of using this ML for a "I-Y" mission?  A mission that would use an SLS five-segment SRB flown singly in a single stage suborbital flight test?

[JosephB]

Let's keep this on the ML

Duly noted, though would it be on topic here to discuss the possibility of using this ML for a "I-Y" mission?  A mission that would use an SLS five-segment SRB flown singly in a single stage suborbital flight test?

Not a bad idea, further why not use the opportunity to test the J-2X as well? For test purposes only of course.

[Jim]

Let's keep this on the ML

Duly noted, though would it be on topic here to discuss the possibility of using this ML for a "I-Y" mission?  A mission that would use an SLS five-segment SRB flown singly in a single stage suborbital flight test?

Not a bad idea, further why not use the opportunity to test the J-2X as well? For test purposes only of course.

Very bad idea for just an engine test

Because it would require the same amount of support equipment as a full up Ares I.   The MT is just structure and it is not outfitted nor is the pad or VAB.  That is more than a 1/2 billion to finish.

[Chris Bergin]

Boooo KSC Webcam operator! No webcams pointing at the ML for the move.

http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/countdown/video/

[zerm]

Boooo KSC Webcam operator! No webcams pointing at the ML for the move.

http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/countdown/video/

I think it's a conspiracy