Author Topic: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 14 : Discussion  (Read 514209 times)

Offline Vanspace

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 14 : Discussion
« Reply #900 on: 12/12/2020 04:09 am »
It makes me wonder if it might be worth getting rid of residual main tank fuel before landing. If it's not usable couldn't you dump the liquid or is the boiling dregs an important park of tank pressurization?

The boiling dregs is pretty much what the autogenous pressurization discussion is all about. I think dumping the residuals might be more of a problem than not dumping it. Holding the fuel might cause a big fireball in an accident but dumping fuel around a burning engine/re-entry hot steel guarantees a fireball every landing.

But just imagining a burning fireball tracing the skydiver manuever through the sky. That would be so awesome! They should totally do it!
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Offline CJ

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 14 : Discussion
« Reply #901 on: 12/12/2020 07:19 am »
Perhaps wishful thinking on my part, but wouldn't the road closure scheduled for Monday (for moving SN9 to the launchpad) have been canceled by now if the damage to SN9 was significant?
https://www.cameroncounty.us/spacex/

How long does it usually take them to cancel a closure once it becomes certain that whatever the closure was for won't occur? 

Or, might they move it to the pad anyway (due to needing a base) and repair (or, not) it there? 

Offline Oersted

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 14 : Discussion
« Reply #902 on: 12/12/2020 10:35 am »
I took a video of the launch, apex, skydiving like descent, pitch maneuver and landing attempt along with HQ audio:




That is the BEST video I have yet seen of the flight from a spectators' perspective. Outstanding job on the footage, tracking and editing! - If your footage is edited together with some of the other tracking shots out there and with SpaceX' own footage the result will be the ultimate movie of the test, I think.

I didn't realise that the cloud SN8 skydived down through was its own lift-off plume. Cool.

I think the copv whose trajectory you tracked might have been the one Nomadd found.

Extraordinary effort, thank you so much for posting it in here! 

Online kevinof

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 14 : Discussion
« Reply #903 on: 12/12/2020 10:45 am »
I like it because it shows what a spectator would see and I love that last 5/10 seconds as it does it's Swan Dive (like that description better than the belly flop) and then the flip to land. Really interesting getting the perspective on the height and speed it does everything at.

good stuff.

I took a video of the launch, apex, skydiving like descent, pitch maneuver and landing attempt along with HQ audio:




That is the BEST video I have yet seen of the flight from a spectators' perspective. Outstanding job on the footage, tracking and editing! - If your footage is edited together with some of the other tracking shots out there and with SpaceX' own footage the result will be the ultimate movie of the test, I think.

I didn't realise that the cloud SN8 skydived down through was its own lift-off plume. Cool.

I think the copv whose trajectory you tracked might have been the one Nomadd found.

Extraordinary effort, thank you so much for posting it in here!

Online SDSmith

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 14 : Discussion
« Reply #904 on: 12/12/2020 11:26 am »
Why don't they ever teach you anything useful in school, like "Always keep food in the house in case a spaceship falls over and the giant crawler crane sent to rescue it gets to the road and stops, blocking the only way out?"
Canít you wind up one of them horses of Geneís and hoof it into town? Somehow I donít see you riding into town on a mare would surprise anyone.

Any thoughts on why the abandoned the SPMT for crane transport? I mean, they recently got it there one and the SPMT was already under it
Needing to transport it there in the dark (as a result of the necessary emergency response haste) may be a factor.
From Mary's picture of Tankzilla the boom appears to be taller then the high bay. Will they shorten the boom? Or just cut a hole in the roof to do the lift?

Offline RoboGoofers

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 14 : Discussion
« Reply #905 on: 12/12/2020 12:02 pm »
It makes me wonder if it might be worth getting rid of residual main tank fuel before landing. If it's not usable couldn't you dump the liquid or is the boiling dregs an important park of tank pressurization?

The boiling dregs is pretty much what the autogenous pressurization discussion is all about. I think dumping the residuals might be more of a problem than not dumping it. Holding the fuel might cause a big fireball in an accident but dumping fuel around a burning engine/re-entry hot steel guarantees a fireball every landing.

But just imagining a burning fireball tracing the skydiver manuever through the sky. That would be so awesome! They should totally do it!
autogenous pressurization has nothing to do with residual propellant left in the tanks.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, ah, your opinion, man.

Offline Hughlysses

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 14 : Discussion
« Reply #906 on: 12/12/2020 12:43 pm »
From Mary's picture of Tankzilla the boom appears to be taller then the high bay. Will they shorten the boom? Or just cut a hole in the roof to do the lift?

They may be able to lower the boom enough to get it inside the high bay for the lift. However, the more the boom is lowered, the less the crane is able to lift since itís now lifting the load at a greater distance from the counterweights. It all depends on crane capacity at a given distance versus the weight of SN9. If that doesnít work out, they may have to go through the roof.

Another tricky factor is the lifting spreader and attachment points on the nose cone were designed for a straight vertical lift. Lifting SN9 at its current angle could over-stress the spreader, some cables, or some of the attachment points. Hopefully everything was designed with ample safety factors so this wonít be a problem. Iím sure all this is being analyzed in detail right now.

Offline Johnnyhinbos

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 14 : Discussion
« Reply #907 on: 12/12/2020 12:46 pm »
I suspect they’ll hook the crane up as a fail safe and jack up SN9/base from the bottom.
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Offline enbandi

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 14 : Discussion
« Reply #908 on: 12/12/2020 01:01 pm »
I suspect theyíll hook the crane up as a fail safe and jack up SN9/base from the bottom.

If I remember correctly, there are or there were some pits/trenches beneath the HighBay floor, and this whole tilting could have happened because the floor/concrete lid on them failed (instead of the stand failed).

Pure speculation, but if they have a problem with the floor, jack up is unlikely, they have to lift.

Offline Hughlysses

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 14 : Discussion
« Reply #909 on: 12/12/2020 01:23 pm »
The still-foggy view from the LabPadre Sentinel cam shows Tankzillaís boom JUST fitting below the opening on the high bay. Thatís a good thing. Shipyard Cam shows a closeup of the boom tip at the door opening.
« Last Edit: 12/12/2020 01:26 pm by Hughlysses »

Offline matt_ellis

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 14 : Discussion
« Reply #910 on: 12/12/2020 01:36 pm »
I suspect they’ll hook the crane up as a fail safe and jack up SN9/base from the bottom.

If I remember correctly, there are or there were some pits/trenches beneath the HighBay floor, and this whole tilting could have happened because the floor/concrete lid on them failed (instead of the stand failed).

Pure speculation, but if they have a problem with the floor, jack up is unlikely, they have to lift.
Do they need to lift the full weight of SN9, or just that part supported on the collapsed side?

(As in lift to level/vertical, add supports to keep it level, then perform planned lift/move)

Online laszlo

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 14 : Discussion
« Reply #911 on: 12/12/2020 01:40 pm »
I like it because it shows what a spectator would see and I love that last 5/10 seconds as it does it's Swan Dive (like that description better than the belly flop) and then the flip to land. Really interesting getting the perspective on the height and speed it does everything at.

good stuff.

I took a video of the launch, apex, skydiving like descent, pitch maneuver and landing attempt along with HQ audio:


That is the BEST video I have yet seen of the flight from a spectators' perspective. Outstanding job on the footage, tracking and editing! - If your footage is edited together with some of the other tracking shots out there and with SpaceX' own footage the result will be the ultimate movie of the test, I think.

I didn't realise that the cloud SN8 skydived down through was its own lift-off plume. Cool.

I think the copv whose trajectory you tracked might have been the one Nomadd found.

Extraordinary effort, thank you so much for posting it in here!

Did that poor woman who was getting her legs torn off just as the engines restarted ever get taken to a hospital? Her screams were horrific.

Seriously, what's the point of HQ audio if all you hear are the screaming lunatics? Good video, though. The different point of view is interesting.

Offline Hughlysses

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 14 : Discussion
« Reply #912 on: 12/12/2020 01:51 pm »
Bluto/Tankzillaís boom is now rotated away from the high bay opening. The area is still very foggy, but Iíd guess theyíre fitting the spreader assembly.
« Last Edit: 12/12/2020 01:55 pm by Hughlysses »

Offline raivo45

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 14 : Discussion
« Reply #913 on: 12/12/2020 02:20 pm »
I suspect theyíll hook the crane up as a fail safe and jack up SN9/base from the bottom.

If I remember correctly, there are or there were some pits/trenches beneath the HighBay floor, and this whole tilting could have happened because the floor/concrete lid on them failed (instead of the stand failed).

Pure speculation, but if they have a problem with the floor, jack up is unlikely, they have to lift.

I mentioned it yesterday but it got buried in comments. Imo, trench cover failing is more likely than "stand being made out of wrong grade of steel" I saw some people mention.  Hopefully we'll see today how they'll lift it. :)

Offline Johnnyhinbos

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 14 : Discussion
« Reply #914 on: 12/12/2020 02:34 pm »
I like it because it shows what a spectator would see and I love that last 5/10 seconds as it does it's Swan Dive (like that description better than the belly flop) and then the flip to land. Really interesting getting the perspective on the height and speed it does everything at.

good stuff.

I took a video of the launch, apex, skydiving like descent, pitch maneuver and landing attempt along with HQ audio:


That is the BEST video I have yet seen of the flight from a spectators' perspective. Outstanding job on the footage, tracking and editing! - If your footage is edited together with some of the other tracking shots out there and with SpaceX' own footage the result will be the ultimate movie of the test, I think.

I didn't realise that the cloud SN8 skydived down through was its own lift-off plume. Cool.

I think the copv whose trajectory you tracked might have been the one Nomadd found.

Extraordinary effort, thank you so much for posting it in here!

Did that poor woman who was getting her legs torn off just as the engines restarted ever get taken to a hospital? Her screams were horrific.

Seriously, what's the point of HQ audio if all you hear are the screaming lunatics? Good video, though. The different point of view is interesting.
I have a very different take. Though I prefer the actual launch coverage to just have the loop and ambient audio, after the fact I absolutely love watching the amateur stuff that captures the excitement of the moment. You can hear the raw amazement and emotion and literally a sense of awe. It may not be your taste, but it’s exactly that passion that can motivate people to achieve great things.
John Hanzl. Author, action / adventure www.johnhanzl.com

Offline lonestriker

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 14 : Discussion
« Reply #915 on: 12/12/2020 02:59 pm »
Did that poor woman who was getting her legs torn off just as the engines restarted ever get taken to a hospital? Her screams were horrific.

Seriously, what's the point of HQ audio if all you hear are the screaming lunatics? Good video, though. The different point of view is interesting.
I have a very different take. Though I prefer the actual launch coverage to just have the loop and ambient audio, after the fact I absolutely love watching the amateur stuff that captures the excitement of the moment. You can hear the raw amazement and emotion and literally a sense of awe. It may not be your taste, but itís exactly that passion that can motivate people to achieve great things.
I'm with Johnny here.  Enjoying the moment by myself, pumping my fists and screaming is fun and all.  But the shared enjoyment of experiencing other people's reaction is a bit like being there with them.  Given 2020 and social distancing, it's nice to feel like you're part of a random crowd of strangers whose shared passion for spaceflight (or just something crazy and cool) binds us together.

Did you also watch the FH test flight and not like the craziness of all those SpaceXers drowning out even the roar of the engines?  Never fails to bring a tear to my eye when I stumble across the FH test flight footage and watch the sheer excitement and extasy of the crowd.

Offline Nomadd

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 14 : Discussion
« Reply #916 on: 12/12/2020 03:40 pm »
Did that poor woman who was getting her legs torn off just as the engines restarted ever get taken to a hospital? Her screams were horrific.

Seriously, what's the point of HQ audio if all you hear are the screaming lunatics? Good video, though. The different point of view is interesting.
I have a very different take. Though I prefer the actual launch coverage to just have the loop and ambient audio, after the fact I absolutely love watching the amateur stuff that captures the excitement of the moment. You can hear the raw amazement and emotion and literally a sense of awe. It may not be your taste, but itís exactly that passion that can motivate people to achieve great things.
I'm with Johnny here.  Enjoying the moment by myself, pumping my fists and screaming is fun and all.  But the shared enjoyment of experiencing other people's reaction is a bit like being there with them.  Given 2020 and social distancing, it's nice to feel like you're part of a random crowd of strangers whose shared passion for spaceflight (or just something crazy and cool) binds us together.

Did you also watch the FH test flight and not like the craziness of all those SpaceXers drowning out even the roar of the engines?  Never fails to bring a tear to my eye when I stumble across the FH test flight footage and watch the sheer excitement and extasy of the crowd.
I think all the SpaceX people were in the Stargate building, and security had disappeared from the road. I saw it standing in an empty field. Not that I was ever a crowd person, but seeing something like that by yourself doesn't compare to any other feeling I know. It seems like fewer people know that experience, growing up connected to everybody else since the day they smeared strained carrots all over the first smartphone they got their paws on.
 Get out of the crowd for a while. You'll still exist.
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Offline AJW

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 14 : Discussion
« Reply #917 on: 12/12/2020 03:49 pm »
I'm thinking that putting a restaurant at the top of a working rocket bay may be something that SpaceX will want to reconsider at this point.
We are all interested in the future, for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives.

Offline xvel

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 14 : Discussion
« Reply #918 on: 12/12/2020 03:53 pm »
I'm thinking that putting a restaurant at the top of a working rocket bay may be something that SpaceX will want to reconsider at this point.

because?
And God said: "Let there be a metric system". And there was the metric system.
And God saw that it was a good system.

Online laszlo

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 14 : Discussion
« Reply #919 on: 12/12/2020 03:55 pm »
Did you also watch the FH test flight and not like the craziness of all those SpaceXers drowning out even the roar of the engines? 

Yep.

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