So far i know stop the production of Saturn IB & Saturn V in July 1968,in same time Rocketdyne work on Uprated simplified H-1 engine for Saturn IB, during it's cancelation.NASA ordered Chrysler to halt production of the SA-213 and SA-214 first stages and it cancelled SA-215 and SA-216 outright. October 1968 start contractors phaseout Complete were 12 units SA-201 to SA-212 (9 used)SA-209 unused went into KSC rocket garden in 1975SA-211 unused is in AlabamaSA-212 SIVB became Skylab. first stage scrapped some were 1970SA-213 first stage (only parts built). Unused and scrapped some were 1970SA-214 first stage (only parts built). Unused and scrapped some were 1970Rocketdyne used Uprated H-1 as RS-27 and most leftover H-1 were upgraded to RS-27.
So far i know stop the production of Saturn IB & Saturn V in July 1968,in same time Rocketdyne work on Uprated simplified H-1 engine for Saturn IB, during it's cancelation.NASA ordered Chrysler to halt production of the SA-213 and SA-214 first stages
i have interesting question about Production phase out of Saturn IB and VOnline and some Literature, i read stories that production lines were Mothballed in august 1968 until 1973 with Start of Shuttle Program, the Saturn production tool were scraps it that true ?
For example, I've heard (I think from e of pi over at alternatehistory.com, but I'm having trouble finding the post it was said in) that the tooling and workforce to produce J-2 engines was likely scrapped before NASA told Rocketdyne to shut down the production line (apparently because Rocketdyne didn't like making J-2 engines,
Quote from: fasquardon on 07/28/2017 08:07 pmFor example, I've heard (I think from e of pi over at alternatehistory.com, but I'm having trouble finding the post it was said in) that the tooling and workforce to produce J-2 engines was likely scrapped before NASA told Rocketdyne to shut down the production line (apparently because Rocketdyne didn't like making J-2 engines,I find this difficult to believe. Rocketdyne viewed its engines as products that they might be able to sell in the future. They sought to preserve the ability to restart production on several of their engines because they believed that a rocket might come along in the future that required them. I doubt they would have done anything to undercut their ability to restart production.
I don't think that was from me, because it doesn't pass my sniff test either. For what it's worth, the J-2 line was probably intact at least through the early 1970s, since I think it would have been contained under the retention of Saturn V construction. You can find information on the final end of that retention in document I-46 in this pdf, which is dated August 1972. Note also that it follows a memo which said they'd continue to support it if at all possible, and that the savings it achieves--just a hundred million or so!--are rather small. Additionally, the memo specifically states that the actual disposal of hardware would be held until after 1974 to save money in the FY 1973 budget. Thus, it's probably sometime after 1974 at the earliest that the J-2 is gone--well after NASA decided not to use it.
Quote from: Michel Van on 07/28/2017 12:39 pmSo far i know stop the production of Saturn IB & Saturn V in July 1968,in same time Rocketdyne work on Uprated simplified H-1 engine for Saturn IB, during it's cancelation.NASA ordered Chrysler to halt production of the SA-213 and SA-214 first stages Do you know how late it was possible to produce more Saturn 1B stages and more Saturn IVB stages (so how long was the tooling and the skilled workers kept in readiness)?fasquardon
Quote from: Michel Van on 07/28/2017 06:54 pmi have interesting question about Production phase out of Saturn IB and VOnline and some Literature, i read stories that production lines were Mothballed in august 1968 until 1973 with Start of Shuttle Program, the Saturn production tool were scraps it that true ?This is exactly what I was wondering.For example, I've heard (I think from e of pi over at alternatehistory.com, but I'm having trouble finding the post it was said in) that the tooling and workforce to produce J-2 engines was likely scrapped before NASA told Rocketdyne to shut down the production line (apparently because Rocketdyne didn't like making J-2 engines, though I suspect that if the J-2 line was shut down early, it must have still been after Rocketdyne felt NASA was committed to the SSME project).My reason for being interested in the resurrection of the H-1 as the RS-27 is that I am curious just how much work it took to resurrect this piece of equipment and how much of the manufacturing skills were maintained by reconditioning old Saturn 1B H-1s as RS-27s for the Delta. Just wanting to get a sense of what the "point of no return, it's dead and never coming back" was for the various parts of the Saturn IB launcher.fasquardon
Note that NASA's budget/expenditures peaked in the mid-60s and were dropping off by the end of the decade, which reflects the fact that all the major design/construction work on the hardware had been finished.
So far i know stop the production of Saturn IB & Saturn V in July 1968,
NASA kept the Saturn Production one year on stand-by in Hope to get fundingto complete SA-213 & SA-214 and SA-516 & SA-517 in 1969/70 but that not happened.
on RS-27, Rocketdyne just jump at the chance to use leftover H-1 and turn them cheap into RS-27
I had found PDF about running Apollo next to Shuttle program R&D in case the Soviet landed on Moon it was quite positive about restart the Saturn V production line and land Apollo in Moon during 1970sonly problem they saw was schedule for Shuttle and Saturn V launches in 1978 do logistic in VAB and Launch pad 39A & 39B sadly do Harddrive failure i lost this PDF...
Not that it affects your point that NASA expenditures peaked well before Apollo 11, but the CPI is not a relevant measure of inflation in this case (unless, perhaps, the point is to express the cost of NASA in terms of foregone consumer expenditure). A more relevant measure of inflation is the NASA New-Start Inflation Index, by which the 1960's funding peak looks even larger.
Attached are the most relevant letters reproduced in Exploring the Unknown, Volume IV, Accessing Space.Note that the letter from Webb disapproving purchase of long-lead-time items for SA-516 & -517, in August 1968, did not mean the end of Saturn V production. As Webb said, "This decision, in effect, limits at this time the production effort on Saturn through vehicle 515" (emphasis added). It meant that there would have been an interruption in the flow of Saturns off the production line, but at that point Saturn V's were still rolling off the assembly line and continued to do so into 1971. The decision marked the very beginning of the end of the supply chain, but I don't think you can say there was a precise time of death. It was a drawn out process beginning in August 1968 and likely ending in late 1972, with the disposal of tooling. At the beginning of that period, a restart of production would have been quick and cheap. NASA did, after all, continue to study Saturn V-launched space stations into 1970. By the end of the period, a restart would have been lengthy and expensive.As to engines, somewhere I've seen a photo of the ceremony marking the completion of Rocketdyne's Saturn-related engine contract. I believe the date was January 1970.
No, when production was ended, workers would have been laid off. There was no skills retention
The RS-27 was a cheaper engine than the H-1?fasquardon
so The Delta II use today H-1 and LMDE derivates...
Quote from: Jim on 07/29/2017 01:00 pmNo, when production was ended, workers would have been laid off. There was no skills retentionSo after SA-214's completion wasn't funded, that was the end of the Saturn IB first stage production?fasquardon