Author Topic: Future of HST  (Read 24883 times)

Offline Jim

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Future of HST
« on: 03/03/2008 04:10 pm »
Just thought I would continue the discussion.  The choices are what is going to happen and not what  you want to happen.

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Re: Future of HST
« Reply #1 on: 03/03/2008 04:22 pm »
I'm in doubt between the first and the second. I don't know if another servicing mission would be worth it, because Hubble will probably be more than 15 years old and deterioration will start to affect its functionality. However, I don't really know how 'tough' it is, how much redundancy it has built in, so maybe a robotic servicer would be justifiable, and wouldn't be detrimental for future, more capable telescopes.

As the poll calls for what we think is the most probable, I picked the first: deorbit after a few years after this summer's SM (2015 or so, if there are no catastrophes, in my opinion) I don't think with JWST around, or just about to be launched, a very costly and specially designed robot will be a easy option to take. What it would certainly be is way cool... ;)
-DaviD-

Offline Lawntonlookirs

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Re: Future of HST
« Reply #2 on: 03/03/2008 04:22 pm »
With all of the information that the HST has provided us, it would be good to see the mission extended, if it is still operational and in good shape.
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Offline todd5ski

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Re: Future of HST
« Reply #3 on: 03/03/2008 04:33 pm »
On the upcoming Hubble Mission, are we leaving behind a form of docking mechanism for a deorbit saletilite to dock with?  The first option suggests that we are. I'm just confirming. Thanks


Offline rdale

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Re: Future of HST
« Reply #4 on: 03/03/2008 04:48 pm »
Quote
todd5ski - 3/3/2008  12:33 PM

On the upcoming Hubble Mission, are we leaving behind a form of docking mechanism for a deorbit saletilite to dock with?  

Yep... There's an article with more details if you aren't on L2:

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=4997

Offline bobthemonkey

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Re: Future of HST
« Reply #5 on: 03/03/2008 04:54 pm »
1 and 2.  Robotic deorbit, but with a chance of an addition service mission. Saying that I would guess the vehicle would be the same, and not actually switch out any components, just provide pointing/guidance for the new stack. Once the science istuments fail/loose funding, use the same vehicle to ditch it in the Pacific.

Online jacqmans

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Re: Future of HST
« Reply #6 on: 03/03/2008 05:12 pm »
Shuttle retrieval is not possible, all orbiters have an extended airlock now, zo Hubble will not fit anymore.....
Jacques :-)

Offline William Barton

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RE: Future of HST
« Reply #7 on: 03/03/2008 05:25 pm »
Quote
Jim - 3/3/2008  12:10 PM

Just thought I would continue the discussion.  The choices are what is going to happen and not what  you want to happen.

What I want is extended mission with either robotic or manned servicing (however that turns out to be possible). What I expect is, no decision will be made until it's too late for anything but natural decay. No idea if a shootdown would be possible, or if it would accomplish anything.

Offline Jim

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Re: Future of HST
« Reply #8 on: 03/03/2008 05:34 pm »
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jacqmans - 3/3/2008  1:12 PM

Shuttle retrieval is not possible, all orbiters have an extended airlock now, zo Hubble will not fit anymore.....

There might be room

Offline psloss

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Re: Future of HST
« Reply #9 on: 03/03/2008 05:35 pm »
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jacqmans - 3/3/2008  1:12 PM

Shuttle retrieval is not possible, all orbiters have an extended airlock now, zo Hubble will not fit anymore.....
Bit of a tangent, but I seem to recall having this discussion before...maybe it was elsewhere back at the time of SM-3B; attached a shot of where the HST was in the orbiter payload bay for launch.  Given how far forward it was, there might be room.  But room in the cargo bay may not be the issue.

Still, FWIW.

Offline daj24

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Re: Future of HST
« Reply #10 on: 03/03/2008 05:36 pm »
It comes down to available money.  It should still be a capable observatory several years after this years refurbishing mission.  I think that it comes down to the condition of the mirrors.  On earth after time the silver/aluminum coatings degrade.  I doubt that is a problem for the HST.  Most everything else is serviceable.  Just because the JWST is online (whenever that eventually happens) is no reason to abandon the HST.  We have the Keck scopes, larger ones in South America and even larger 'scopes in design and coming online.  That does not mean that Palomar and others of it's generation have been decommissioned.  If money can be appropriated to continue HST's work, all the better.
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Offline nathan.moeller

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Re: Future of HST
« Reply #11 on: 03/03/2008 05:37 pm »
I'd love to see it come home aboard a shuttle.  I bet it would still fit, despite the mods made since 1990.  It would come home a hero that's for sure.
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Offline Jim

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Re: Future of HST
« Reply #12 on: 03/03/2008 05:40 pm »
The issue for a retrieval mission is that the payload bay would be empty on the way up

Offline clongton

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Re: Future of HST
« Reply #13 on: 03/03/2008 05:51 pm »
Quote
Jim - 3/3/2008  1:40 PM

The issue for a retrieval mission is that the payload bay would be empty on the way up
Jim
I believe that since HST was launched, that there was a revision to the safety rules as to how much down-mass Shuttle was allowed to return to the ground. My memory is a little fuzzy on that, so I could be wrong. In any case, what is the current down mass limit and would STS/HST still qualify for retrieval?

And to your specific point, am I correct that Shuttle with an empty cargo bay cannot be properly balanced for ascent to orbit?
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Offline todd5ski

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Re: Future of HST
« Reply #14 on: 03/03/2008 05:58 pm »
Quote
rdale - 3/3/2008  11:48 AM

Quote
todd5ski - 3/3/2008  12:33 PM

On the upcoming Hubble Mission, are we leaving behind a form of docking mechanism for a deorbit saletilite to dock with?  

Yep... There's an article with more details if you aren't on L2:

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=4997

Excellent. Thanks  :)

Offline Jim

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Re: Future of HST
« Reply #15 on: 03/03/2008 06:14 pm »
Quote
clongton - 3/3/2008  1:51 PM


And to your specific point, am I correct that Shuttle with an empty cargo bay cannot be properly balanced for ascent to orbit?
Chuck


It was more towards the waste (risks) of launching an empty bay

Offline psloss

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Re: Future of HST
« Reply #16 on: 03/03/2008 06:28 pm »
Perhaps Jim or Jorge or one of the pros can help out with the current orbiter downmass limit(s), but even with all the mods from the different servicing missions, HST "weighs" less than Node 2 did at launch.  (~27000 pounds vs. ~30000 pounds).  That volume from the primary mirror forward to the aperture door is very sparsely filled. :)

Offline clongton

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Re: Future of HST
« Reply #17 on: 03/03/2008 06:35 pm »
Quote
psloss - 3/3/2008  2:28 PM

Perhaps Jim or Jorge or one of the pros can help out with the current orbiter downmass limit(s), but even with all the mods from the different servicing missions, HST "weighs" less than Node 2 did at launch.  (~27000 pounds vs. ~30000 pounds).  That volume from the primary mirror forward to the aperture door is very sparsely filled. :)
I know HST weighs less than those modules, but that wasn’t the point.
There is a limit on how much mass Shuttle is allowed to retrieve because of the stress it places on the vehicle when it sets down on the runway. That’s the number I was looking for.
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Offline kevin-rf

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Re: Future of HST
« Reply #18 on: 03/03/2008 06:38 pm »
What about the option of, used a Navy target in attempt to protect people on the ground?

I am curious if a deorbit robot will actually be built.
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Online DaveS

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Re: Future of HST
« Reply #19 on: 03/03/2008 06:40 pm »
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clongton - 3/3/2008  8:35 PM
I know HST weighs less than those modules, but that wasn’t the point.
There is a limit on how much mass Shuttle is allowed to retrieve because of the stress it places on the vehicle when it sets down on the runway. That’s the number I was looking for.
You do know that if the shuttle is allowed to launch with a 30000 lbs payload, it is allowed to land with a 27000 lbs payload right?

It must be able to land with the same payload it launches with in the event of a launch abort(RTLS, TAL and AOA).
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