Author Topic: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3  (Read 1084151 times)

Offline StormtrooperJoe

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1780 on: 07/08/2021 09:24 pm »
Other than the obvious risks involved with an unflown rocket, is there anything preventing Nasa from putting crew on Artemis 1 and having people around the moon this year?

Offline hektor

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1781 on: 07/08/2021 09:37 pm »
Astronauts breathing pure nitrogen are uncommon.

Offline yg1968

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1782 on: 07/09/2021 03:30 am »
Other than the obvious risks involved with an unflown rocket, is there anything preventing Nasa from putting crew on Artemis 1 and having people around the moon this year?

Welcome to the Forum!

There was a study in 2017 considering that possibility but NASA concluded in the end that it wouldn't be a good idea:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemis_1#Crewed_Exploration_Mission-1_study

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2017/05/nasa-em-1-uncrewed-costs-main-reason/
« Last Edit: 07/09/2021 03:31 am by yg1968 »

Offline Star One

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1783 on: 07/13/2021 11:00 am »
As it says at the end of this book review why design a new lunar rover from scratch for Artemis when you can just update the already tested on the Moon Lunar Rover design

https://www.thespacereview.com/article/4210/1

Offline Robert Thompson

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1784 on: 07/13/2021 04:16 pm »
If the LER is better, and the LRV is good enough, what is the threshold above which better is not the enemy of good enough? Crew size? Stay duration? Excursion distance? Transport mass? Transport volume?

Getting one boot onto the moon is a boolean, a true or false. It doesn't need to be a float that embiggens a prior for no reason above the boolean truth of it, the fact of it. So. A modernized LRV aids the truth of a boot, and reduces the risk of blocking a truth to attain an embiggened float. Embiggened floats, the LER, can come at a later time. ('kill your darlings' comes to mind.)

Offline yg1968

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1785 on: 07/13/2021 07:27 pm »
Quote from: Jeff Foust
At #glenn2021, Jeffrey George, lunar architecture lead at NASA, says 2024 is looking “a little tight” for the Artemis 3 landing; “maybe a year or so later.” NASA hopes to have a “base camp” with habitat, rovers, and other infrastructure in place at lunar south pole by ~2030.

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1415023591993880581

Offline Khadgars

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1786 on: 07/14/2021 01:15 pm »
Quote from: Jeff Foust
At #glenn2021, Jeffrey George, lunar architecture lead at NASA, says 2024 is looking “a little tight” for the Artemis 3 landing; “maybe a year or so later.” NASA hopes to have a “base camp” with habitat, rovers, and other infrastructure in place at lunar south pole by ~2030.

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1415023591993880581

Better than I think many expected.  I am actually quite curious what the Artemis II date looks like right now.
Evil triumphs when good men do nothing - Thomas Jefferson

Offline ThereIWas3

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1787 on: 07/22/2021 09:06 pm »
I don't see how NASA can plan for people to stay at the gateway for any less than a year, if the only way they have of coming and going involves an SLS launch.

Offline yg1968

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1788 on: 07/22/2021 09:20 pm »
I don't see how NASA can plan for people to stay at the gateway for any less than a year, if the only way they have of coming and going involves an SLS launch.

Orion stays at Gateway, it can come back to Earth with the crew when required (it will be much less than a year). Unlike ISS, Gateway will not have crew on it at all times.
« Last Edit: 07/22/2021 09:28 pm by yg1968 »

Offline yg1968

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1789 on: 08/07/2021 12:17 am »
Here is a non-official chart of the Artemis III mission:

https://twitter.com/DavidNagySFgang/status/1423784236293791746

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1790 on: 08/10/2021 02:03 pm »
https://twitter.com/nasaoig/status/1425092999541927944

Quote
Multiple challenges to #NASA’s development of its next-generation spacesuits will preclude a 2024 #Artemis #moon landing. See details in new NASA OIG report https://oig.nasa.gov/docs/IG-21-025.pdf

The report is discussed in the spacesuit thread:
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=53612.0
« Last Edit: 08/10/2021 11:25 pm by FutureSpaceTourist »

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1791 on: 08/23/2021 01:16 pm »
https://spacenews.com/nelson-blue-origin-lawsuit-adds-further-delays-to-artemis/

Quote
Nelson: Blue Origin lawsuit adds further delays to Artemis
by Jeff Foust — August 23, 2021

COLORADO SPRINGS — At a press conference at the Kennedy Space Center in late July, NASA Administrator Bill Nelson deflected several questions about the future of the Artemis program and the agency’s ability to return humans to the lunar surface in 2024.

Jeff Foust asked Nelson about Artemis I progress last week:

Quote
In the near term, Artemis 1, the first Space Launch System mission, is approaching. Is that still likely to take place before the end of the year?

If not the end of the year, then in January.

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1792 on: 08/24/2021 03:33 pm »


Quote
The Artemis missions will build a community on the Moon, driving a new lunar economy and inspiring a new generation. Narrator Drew Barrymore and NASA team members explain why returning to the Moon is the natural next step in human exploration, and how the lessons learned from Artemis will pave the way to Mars and beyond. As NASA prepares to launch the Orion spacecraft and Space Launch System rocket on the uncrewed Artemis I mission around the Moon, we’ve already begun to take the next step.

Offline AU1.52

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1793 on: 08/24/2021 11:59 pm »
Its a pity they had to leave out LSS, but did sneak in Ship 15. Would have been less blue if it were in - next video in November!

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1794 on: 08/31/2021 01:20 pm »
https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1432694486195445771

Quote
NASA's SLS rocket now will not launch until next spring at the earliest.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/08/nasas-sls-rocket-will-not-fly-until-next-spring-or-more-likely-summer/

Key overview from the article:

Quote
However, a source said the best-case scenario for launching the Artemis 1 mission is spring of next year, with summer the more realistic target for a test flight of the heavy lift rocket and Orion spacecraft. The space agency is already running about two months behind internal targets for testing and integrating the rocket at Kennedy Space Center, and the critical pre-flight tests remain ahead.
« Last Edit: 08/31/2021 01:21 pm by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline BrianNH

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1795 on: 08/31/2021 03:50 pm »
One of the NSF articles from last December said that the Solid Rocket Boosters could only remain vertically stacked for a year.  I wonder if this spring-summer timeline takes this into account.  They were stacked around February of this year.

Quote
once the segments are stacked on top of one another, NASA has about a year to launch before they would need to be destacked and serviced.

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2020/12/artemis-1-schedule-uncertainty-sls-booster-stacking/2/

Offline cplchanb

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1796 on: 08/31/2021 04:38 pm »
Honestly I'm not surprised given that most of the photos I've seen either shows nobody working on the rocket or 6+ people supervising 1 person. What is management doing? How is starship being worked on at a pace that is unworldy compared to here? What are they doing differently that makes them so much more efficient?

Offline cdebuhr

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1797 on: 08/31/2021 05:18 pm »
Honestly I'm not surprised given that most of the photos I've seen either shows nobody working on the rocket or 6+ people supervising 1 person. What is management doing? How is starship being worked on at a pace that is unworldy compared to here? What are they doing differently that makes them so much more efficient?
They're working as though the future of the human race is at stake.  Whether anyone else believes that is beside the point.  Elon seems too, and hes does everything he can to instill that sense of urgency into the whole project.  SLS/NASA could never keep up with a project with that sort of drive.

Offline freddo411

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1798 on: 08/31/2021 06:59 pm »
Honestly I'm not surprised given that most of the photos I've seen either shows nobody working on the rocket or 6+ people supervising 1 person. What is management doing? How is starship being worked on at a pace that is unworldy compared to here? What are they doing differently that makes them so much more efficient?
They're working as though the future of the human race is at stake.  Whether anyone else believes that is beside the point.  Elon seems too, and hes does everything he can to instill that sense of urgency into the whole project.  SLS/NASA could never keep up with a project with that sort of drive.

Well, not too long ago, the leadership of the country and NASA set a tone and declared the goal of a moon landing by 2024.   For 3 years NASA, Boeing and the other SLS partners seemed to be working hard to make that date.

NASA might be lacking that urgency now.

Offline oldAtlas_Eguy

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1799 on: 08/31/2021 07:30 pm »
I think we have entered the snowball problem due to lack of sufficient early complete system hardware integration. Small issues grow to be bigger and bigger problems as the issues magnify as the integration goes forward. Such is like a small snowball that starts as something that fits in your hand becomes so large it wipes out a dump truck on its way down the hill.

This is one of the inherent weaknesses to Waterfall Program Management. And one of the strengths of Agile Program Management. Agile tackles early the core capabilities and systems and get it working. Then adds to that to eventually get to the goals. It can be the same duration but first functionality (reaching orbit) will be much earlier. But it requires often flight to be able to do Agile. Otherwise it can take actually longer. But even at more often flight costs are lower for same duration of time to get to desired functionality using Agile vs Waterfall.

Note here is that these small issues have passed our notice because they are so small that simple fixes to hardware or procedures takes care of them for the moment until you get to the next test and find that your issues have grown requiring more work to fix...

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