Author Topic: IM-1 Odysseus lunar lander  (Read 254490 times)

Offline novo2044

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Re: IM-1 Odysseus lunar lander
« Reply #480 on: 02/23/2024 09:41 pm »
I'd hate to see what they consider an unsuccessful landing.

Has no one asked about the communication going forward? How many bits/second can they get from it?
An unsuccessful landing means it slams into the surface and explodes with no communication at all.  That was well within the possible outcomes of course

Offline spacexplorer

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Re: IM-1 Odysseus lunar lander
« Reply #481 on: 02/23/2024 09:42 pm »
did I hear correctly? they forgot removing dust  cover from lidar before launch?

Offline Oersted

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Re: IM-1 Odysseus lunar lander
« Reply #482 on: 02/23/2024 09:43 pm »
I'd hate to see what they consider an unsuccessful landing.

Why so much snark about the landing? - they are absolutely in their right to call it succesful in so far as the lander is operational right now. This was not a crash, it wasn't blown to smithereens. It is up there communicating and at full power.

Offline sdsds

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Re: IM-1 Odysseus lunar lander
« Reply #483 on: 02/23/2024 09:45 pm »
Grush asked about damage.

Hopeful top deck solar array not damaged.

Houston Chronicle reporter asks about lidar and roll maneuver and comms issues after landing.

Into position for initial landing, worked through procedure for shutdown and reboot on ground flat-sat. Once-around approach ("abort once around") gave high confidence of success.

Fixed antenna required landing orientation. Planned roll maneuver to face antennae towards Earth.
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Offline Zander the space nerd

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Re: IM-1 Odysseus lunar lander
« Reply #484 on: 02/23/2024 09:46 pm »
To bad they can't run the cold-gas thrusters and set the lander upright again :(

Offline Sualdam

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Re: IM-1 Odysseus lunar lander
« Reply #485 on: 02/23/2024 09:48 pm »
I must admit that when I saw the lander for the first time, I though 'wow, that's tall'. It's over 4m high, with a leg span maybe two thirds of that. Any sideways movement vector upon landing would always be risky.

All the previous successful landers always looked... well, squat. Keeping a low centre of gravity and all. With very wide legs. That seemed to make sense. The Apollo landers were about 7m high with a leg span of 9.5m.

You can have all the degrees in the world, and all the experience in the world, but that doesn't automatically grant you the gift of common sense.

Offline ShinodaChan

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Re: IM-1 Odysseus lunar lander
« Reply #486 on: 02/23/2024 09:49 pm »
I'm gonna be honest: I appreciate that they're taking the situation in stride. They know the outcome wasn't ideal, but frankly they seem happy to have landed at all which is totally fair. Using the little Nova-C model to show the assumed position of the lander was a cute touch as well.

Offline edkyle99

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Re: IM-1 Odysseus lunar lander
« Reply #487 on: 02/23/2024 09:50 pm »
Why so much snark about the landing? - they are absolutely in their right to call it succesful in so far as the lander is operational right now. This was not a crash, it wasn't blown to smithereens. It is up there communicating and at full power.
They told us 24 hours ago that the lander was "upright".  It isn't.   Creates doubt.

Good for them to get this lander to and on the Moon.  Much to applaud.  But lander tipped over is not a "success".  No matter how many times they say the word.

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 02/23/2024 09:54 pm by edkyle99 »

Offline sdsds

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Re: IM-1 Odysseus lunar lander
« Reply #488 on: 02/23/2024 09:51 pm »
Davenport asks when they knew the lidar wasn't available.

When we went around the night before and made the first laser range measurement it looked like there was a measurement but morning of landing determined there was no software driven means to enable it.

Crane suggested plumbing high and low beam NDL range data into guidance. Was already in "shadow mode" so data was available. Delayed one orbit to implement the shift.

Crain: "It sounds easy in retrospect." Two navigation pods on vehicle had optimal angles. NDL angle optimized to test sensor. Quickly implemented attitude/location transformations. "This is the kind of thing that would have taken a month" in normal sw development. Basically did it in an hour and a half.
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Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: IM-1 Odysseus lunar lander
« Reply #489 on: 02/23/2024 09:52 pm »
As far as I am concerned. This is mostly a failed first Lunar landing attempt by Intuitive Machines. Will not matter in the long run, if their next (and fiscally doable final) attempt is more successful.

Unlike some posters here. Think the lack of photos and videos during the landing attempt is really bad PR. The days of media people reading out a press release about what happen is long gone. General public interest in a mission requires high quality video presentations of the phases of the mission and the actual event itself to be sustainable, IMO.

Offline Oersted

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Re: IM-1 Odysseus lunar lander
« Reply #490 on: 02/23/2024 09:53 pm »
Why so much snark about the landing? - they are absolutely in their right to call it succesful in so far as the lander is operational right now. This was not a crash, it wasn't blown to smithereens. It is up there communicating and at full power.
They told us 24 hours ago that the lander was "upright".  It isn't.

Good for them to get this lander to and on the Moon.  Much to applaud.  But lander tipped over is not a "success".  No matter how many times they say the word.

 - Ed Kyle


They thought it was upright based on the fact that it was alive and transmitting. They later realised it was lying on it's side, based on fuel sensor readings.

That is not a lie, that is just being wrong. It happens to everybody, except to some forum members in here.
« Last Edit: 02/24/2024 12:55 pm by Oersted »

Offline Zander the space nerd

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Re: IM-1 Odysseus lunar lander
« Reply #491 on: 02/23/2024 09:53 pm »
I must admit that when I saw the lander for the first time, I though 'wow, that's tall'. It's over 4m high, with a leg span maybe two thirds of that. Any sideways movement vector upon landing would always be risky.

All the previous successful landers always looked... well, squat. Keeping a low centre of gravity and all. With very wide legs. That seemed to make sense. The Apollo landers were about 7m high with a leg span of 9.5m.

I agree, now with starship HLS and blue moon being top heavy It is much more likely to tip over.

Offline sdsds

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Re: IM-1 Odysseus lunar lander
« Reply #492 on: 02/23/2024 09:54 pm »
Berger from Ars: cryo boiloff and how much prop at end. data transfer rate vs orig expectation.

Cryogens did very well. System doesn't really have boiloff; tanks are rated for pressure. Insulation and isolation provided thermal protection "very well." Used more helium than expected; ran low.

Bandwidth question difficult to answer. Fault-tolerant restarts if lacking heartbeat. Trying to get out of that flight config and stay locked on two antennas. Beat frequency timing. Just about have it solved.
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Offline spacexplorer

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Re: IM-1 Odysseus lunar lander
« Reply #493 on: 02/23/2024 09:55 pm »
Why so much snark about the landing? - they are absolutely in their right to call it succesful in so far as the lander is operational right now. This was not a crash, it wasn't blown to smithereens. It is up there communicating and at full power.
They told us 24 hours ago that the lander was "upright".  It isn't.

Good for them to get this lander to and on the Moon.  Much to applaud.  But lander tipped over is not a "success".  No matter how many times they say the word.

 - Ed Kyle

did they also say that they confused the accelerometer telemetry in first instance hence thinking lander was upright? English is not my native language, I'm hearing strange things during this advert-conference, but maybe it's me.

Offline novo2044

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Re: IM-1 Odysseus lunar lander
« Reply #494 on: 02/23/2024 09:55 pm »
Everything else aside I'd say IM is showing a lot of transparency and technical detail, despite having only partial information.  At the end of the day it's a pretty small company taking a literal moonshot.  Comparing them to actual national space agencies and SpaceX isn't entirely fair.

Also interesting comments about 0-boiloff in their cryogen tanks.  Did they have active chillers?

Offline TheKutKu

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Re: IM-1 Odysseus lunar lander
« Reply #495 on: 02/23/2024 09:56 pm »
Why so much snark about the landing? - they are absolutely in their right to call it succesful in so far as the lander is operational right now. This was not a crash, it wasn't blown to smithereens. It is up there communicating and at full power.
They told us 24 hours ago that the lander was "upright".  It isn't.

Good for them to get this lander to and on the Moon.  Much to applaud.  But lander tipped over is not a "success".  No matter how many times they say the word.

 - Ed Kyle


They thought it was upright based on the fact that it was alive and transmitting. They later realised it was lying it's side, based on fuel sensor readings.

That is not a lie, that is just being wrong. It happens to everybody, except to some forum members in here.

I'm not particularly convinced of this timelines of the event considering the evolution of the $LUNR stock these past 24 hours.

Anyway, congratulation to Intuitive machines!

Offline sdsds

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Re: IM-1 Odysseus lunar lander
« Reply #496 on: 02/23/2024 09:56 pm »
Foust question: best guess at what data rate they're hoping for, and best guess for location accuracy.

Expect to get "most" of the mission data down. W/only standard navigation sensors on board, 4-5 km accuracy. Optical measurements looked better on scopes than sims. 2-3 km accuracy on landing.
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Offline Oersted

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Re: IM-1 Odysseus lunar lander
« Reply #497 on: 02/23/2024 09:57 pm »
Did we get any answers as to whether there will be photos coming down, and if yes, when?

Offline ShinodaChan

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Re: IM-1 Odysseus lunar lander
« Reply #498 on: 02/23/2024 09:58 pm »
As far as I am concerned. This is mostly a failed first Lunar landing attempt by Intuitive Machines. Will not matter in the long run, if their next (and fiscally doable final) attempt is more successful.

Unlike some posters here. Think the lack of photos and videos during the landing attempt is really bad PR. The days of media people reading out a press release about what happen is long gone. General public interest in a mission requires high quality video presentations of the phases of the mission and the actual event itself to be sustainable, IMO.

Considering how Astrobotic looks right now, IM is considerably better off. At least IM's lander actually made it.

Offline sdsds

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Re: IM-1 Odysseus lunar lander
« Reply #499 on: 02/23/2024 09:58 pm »
Roulette asks about orientation on surface.

Panel E is down-facing. All others exposed to outside. Some antennas pointed towards surface, limiting data availability.


Top deck was at 30 deg angle due to south pole landing site. Unknown effects.
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