Author Topic: China's space program  (Read 660446 times)

Offline Satori

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Offline strkiky

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #921 on: 07/02/2019 01:49 am »
Hey guys,

Where's a good place to obtain information on Chinese space developments? (besides Xinhua).


Offline Asteroza

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #922 on: 07/03/2019 12:04 am »
From Xinhua,

China unveils cloud-tech platform to serve commercial space industry.

technically the same press release, straight from CAS's mouth...

http://english.cas.cn/newsroom/news/201907/t20190701_212309.shtml

CAS Tianta Co. Ltd (running on Alibaba) operating the Space Cloud Cubic platform, sounds like a vertical industry customized cloud SaaS service for newspace startups to offload non-core business functions. Makes a handy national centralized marketplace for geospatial data too...

The platform claims 6 business functions

1. cloud measurement and control
2. (cloud?) management
3. cloud communication
4. cloud storage
5. cloud computing
6. cloud services

Which sounds roughly like the Alibaba Cloud service platform equivalent of AWS + extras

So rough US equivalents
1. cloud measurement and control (definitely not your HAARP conspiracy weather control stuff here)
- AWS has Ground Station for comms/control, but measurement suggests radar/optical tracking (some sort of space catalog clearinghouse like an open TLE database, or actual tracking station timesharing?)
2. Management
- Assuming they mean cloud services for project management, like Office365?
3. cloud communication
Office365 for email, Microsoft Teams for chat. They may be wanting to avoid having everyone using WeChat for comms...
4. cloud storage
AWS S3 and the AWS special repositories for geospatial data
5. cloud computing
AWS EC2/Lambda for all that "serverless" data processing
6. cloud services
Accounting, HR, etc.

In some ways is sounds like a cloud ERP platform for newspace startups, if I am reading that right.

Offline Lar

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #923 on: 07/03/2019 04:26 pm »
From Xinhua,

China unveils cloud-tech platform to serve commercial space industry.

technically the same press release, straight from CAS's mouth...

http://english.cas.cn/newsroom/news/201907/t20190701_212309.shtml

CAS Tianta Co. Ltd (running on Alibaba) operating the Space Cloud Cubic platform, sounds like a vertical industry customized cloud SaaS service for newspace startups to offload non-core business functions. Makes a handy national centralized marketplace for geospatial data too...

The platform claims 6 business functions

1. cloud measurement and control
2. (cloud?) management
3. cloud communication
4. cloud storage
5. cloud computing
6. cloud services

Which sounds roughly like the Alibaba Cloud service platform equivalent of AWS + extras

So rough US equivalents
1. cloud measurement and control (definitely not your HAARP conspiracy weather control stuff here)
- AWS has Ground Station for comms/control, but measurement suggests radar/optical tracking (some sort of space catalog clearinghouse like an open TLE database, or actual tracking station timesharing?)
2. Management
- Assuming they mean cloud services for project management, like Office365?
3. cloud communication
Office365 for email, Microsoft Teams for chat. They may be wanting to avoid having everyone using WeChat for comms...
4. cloud storage
AWS S3 and the AWS special repositories for geospatial data
5. cloud computing
AWS EC2/Lambda for all that "serverless" data processing
6. cloud services
Accounting, HR, etc.

In some ways is sounds like a cloud ERP platform for newspace startups, if I am reading that right.

Good analysis. I think "management" in this context might be tracking which nodes are up, which are being patched, which are down, etc, rather than project management. Like IBM Cloud or AWS Cloud dashboards...

I'm not sure I'd characterize it as a Cloud ERP platform, that carries a certain connotation (planning production resources and how they get to where they need to be when they need to be). I see it as potentially a  more general fabric.
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Offline zandr

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Offline Zannanza

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #925 on: 07/04/2019 10:12 am »
If done as barter arrangement would give ESA a few free crew trips to station.

China should be considering alternative LVs and supply vehicle combinations. Having alternative LV and cargo vehicles has paid off for ISS. With three of it LVs suffering problems at one time or another ie Antares, F9 and Soyzu.
Considering the current political situation it would be a good idea to utilize Russian Soyuz and progress vehicles to resupply CSS
Proton M can also send core module to LEO but the Chinese might be worried about the reliability of Proton vehicle
Ariane 5 has much better track record for mission success, and US vehicles might not be a viable option due to the current trade war and political tension between the two countries

Offline Satori

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #926 on: 07/08/2019 04:03 pm »

Offline Satori

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Offline Satori

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Offline Zannanza

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #929 on: 07/09/2019 08:31 am »
People's Daily reported that Chinese Mars Mission, including an orbiter, a lander and a rover launched on a same rocket, is still scheduled to lift off in 2020. The problem is: will LM-5, the only Chinese rocket capable of sending the full stack to Mars, be ready by then? :-[
I simply don't understand why they don't launch the orbiter and lander/rover on two separate LM-3Bs, they risk putting all the eggs in one basket by pushing ahead with a LM-5, even worse, the LM-5 is plagued with problems and reliability issues. :-\

Offline luhai167

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #930 on: 07/09/2019 03:19 pm »
People's Daily reported that Chinese Mars Mission, including an orbiter, a lander and a rover launched on a same rocket, is still scheduled to lift off in 2020. The problem is: will LM-5, the only Chinese rocket capable of sending the full stack to Mars, be ready by then? :-[
I simply don't understand why they don't launch the orbiter and lander/rover on two separate LM-3Bs, they risk putting all the eggs in one basket by pushing ahead with a LM-5, even worse, the LM-5 is plagued with problems and reliability issues. :-\
It could be the be reverse, the mission exists to give LM-5 a job to do. Perhaps it's more important to the program to develop a heavy rocket rather than to accomplish a specific set of missions.

Just look at the data for SLS in the states, there could be a complicated set of politics going on behind the scenes that favors one particular rcoket other other plans to do the same things.

Online Steven Pietrobon

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #931 on: 07/10/2019 05:21 am »
China Releases Commercial Launch Rules
Louis Dillon
10 July 2019

China has released a set of rules to help guide their growing commercial space sector with the development of launch vehicles.

https://www.spaceconnectonline.com.au/r-d/3539-china-releases-commercial-launch-rules
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Tywin

Re: China's space program
« Reply #932 on: 08/23/2019 09:49 am »
In the recent video of the CMS, after show amazing landing in the Moon  ;)



(minute 7:23")

Show a spacecraft that look very similar to the "Project Prometheus" of the NASA:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Prometheus

Somebody know if the Chinesse have some kind of experiment in space nuclear reactor? or some kind of nuclear electric propulsion?


« Last Edit: 08/23/2019 09:52 am by Tywin »
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Online Steven Pietrobon

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #933 on: 08/24/2019 05:19 am »
Here are the animations of their Lunar lander. Looks like the crew initially go down a tunnel near the middle of the lander.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline TripleSeven

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #934 on: 08/24/2019 05:56 am »
Here are the animations of their Lunar lander. Looks like the crew initially go down a tunnel near the middle of the lander.

thanks for the video assets...they are fascinating.  one of the regrets in my life is that even having spent time there I have not figured out Chinese culture...and that would help understand where they are going with this

they have had several different lander designs over the last couple of decades.  I find this one interesting because it seems to show an "outer crew ring" around the engine of the descent stage that allows the folks to leave the ascent/crew module and (( am wondering) suit up in the area of the descent stage and then egress...

I sort of picture it as an OSC like module turned on its end, with the bottom attached to an ascent stage and the ascent stage attacked to the descent stage...and (speculative because one cannot see really well) from each side of the "module" there is access to the bottom ring which (again speculative) would carry all the EVA gear. 

It would solve some problems of not having people in pressurized suits "up high" and where to clean off after EVA which eventual easy "regolith" cleaning.

Of course it could just be "aspirational" but it is interesting.  I spent sometime flyiing and working there with my old employer and get trips there on a pretty regular basis.  really cultural wise it is like another planet. all from my lack of knowledge

thanks again for posting

Online Steven Pietrobon

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #935 on: 08/24/2019 08:43 am »
This is from a Chinese paper from July 2016, whose configuration for the descent stage looks similar to those in the screen captures.
« Last Edit: 08/24/2019 08:43 am by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Satori

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #936 on: 09/11/2019 03:18 pm »
I'm looking for informations regarding the future satellites Haiyang Yandu Weixing (Marine salinity satellite) '海洋盐度卫星' and Liangzi Weixing-2 (Quantum Sat-2) '量子卫星二号'?

Offline Donosauro

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #937 on: 09/11/2019 04:32 pm »
This is from a Chinese paper from July 2016, whose configuration for the descent stage looks similar to those in the screen captures.

That last photo seems to show something like the Lunar Landing Research Facility's gantry in the left background. And is that possibly the mock lander itself in the foreground? If so, it isn't clear to me that there's room for a pilot, so this could be an un-piloted precursor.

Lunar Landing Research Facility:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Landing_Research_Facility

https://www.vasc.org/vasc_events/july-sigma-series-the-lunar-landing-research-facility-a-simulator-of-gantry-proportions/


Edit: fixed punctuation, typo
« Last Edit: 09/11/2019 04:36 pm by Donosauro »

Offline Satori

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #938 on: 10/15/2019 12:16 pm »

Offline Satori

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