Quote from: deltaMass on 07/31/2015 04:37 pmI seem to be operating in Blurt Mode today. Here's another blurt:If they can take an espresso machine to ISS, why not an EmDrive for microgee testing?No doubt the expresso machine had to pass a complete battery of tests to certify it as spaceflight hardware. An EM-Drive would fail the emi tests for starters. Maybe a new improved expresso machine could be designed that used a magnetron to heat the beans and could double as a clandestine EM-Drive test.
I seem to be operating in Blurt Mode today. Here's another blurt:If they can take an espresso machine to ISS, why not an EmDrive for microgee testing?
A comment on simulations from elsewhere. Tagline: BEWARE! ...
Quote from: deltaMass on 07/31/2015 11:55 pmA comment on simulations from elsewhere.Tagline: BEWARE!...Well, there is a huge difference, dare I say, between someone that was awarded S.B., S.M. and Ph.D. degrees from MIT all involving numerical analysis by Finite Difference and Finite Element methods, theory and experiments, has won awards, author of several such computer programs and has been involved in R&D for NASA, DoD, and multinational private companies and what you are implying. Tagline: BEWARE of what you are comparing. Just saying
A comment on simulations from elsewhere.Tagline: BEWARE!...
Quote from: Rodal on 08/01/2015 12:06 amQuote from: deltaMass on 07/31/2015 11:55 pmA comment on simulations from elsewhere.Tagline: BEWARE!...Well, there is a huge difference, dare I say, between someone that was awarded S.B., S.M. and Ph.D. degrees from MIT all involving numerical analysis by Finite Difference and Finite Element methods, theory and experiments, has won awards, author of several such computer programs and has been involved in R&D for NASA, DoD, and multinational private companies and what you are implying. Tagline: BEWARE of what you are comparing. Just saying Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending) you personally were not involved in the Cannae simulations, which was what this was about (sorry for not having indicated the context). Perhaps there's a way for you to get involved in that process?
Quote from: deltaMass on 07/31/2015 02:43 pm@TT:There's a video of Shawyer's device slowly rotating (you've posted it many times; you know the one). There's also a graph of power and thrust over time (you've also posted many times).Are you sure that they go together?Reason I ask is that the speed looks about constant - there is little discernable acceleration at all.Use the YouTube video. Run it at 1/4 speed. Record the video seconds between the pointer hitting each mark. Can use freeze frame to do this.You can also import the video from www.emdrive.com and use a video software package to determine the time between the pointer hitting each mark.I measured the time between each of the 15 marks and the middle 0.5 estimated marks on the table and got the attached velocity curve. This is not the entire acceleration period, just the pointer moving right over the 15 marks on the table.
@TT:There's a video of Shawyer's device slowly rotating (you've posted it many times; you know the one). There's also a graph of power and thrust over time (you've also posted many times).Are you sure that they go together?Reason I ask is that the speed looks about constant - there is little discernable acceleration at all.
@SeeShells and @Rodal,The data you are referring to was something I generated after reading a post/paper by Dr. Rodal in which he discussed extending the Brady frustum, using the same big end diameter and the same taper angle, but extending until the small end diameter equalled 25% of the big end diameter. The views posted are for the start of the cavity, power on until some cycles later. We remarked at the time about the changing range of the signal causing color changes, but no one realized that I had discovered the first step in inventing the "flashy light thingee" used by the Men in Black.I have used time today to re-run that model generating what has become rather standard upload data, both csv files and png views, here: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B1XizxEfB23tfkZVbi1MY2RQZmVkeEVHUmVfQkc3UEdlVkdOVXZENmFYbmg4czJUd1lqcDg&usp=sharingRead the data request file, where I blamed Rodal for asking for the data. I copied some data from my meep run log into the file giving basic cavity and run information. I did not use run logs back in mid June but it is the same model so today's run log data should be the same as was ran back in June. I don't recall where the 2.14 GHz center drive frequency number came from, perhaps it was Harminv.In any case, I hope this data tells us something, and Dr. Rodal, the complete set of 14 time slice csv files are there so you now have the data to calculate stresses. I'd be interested in seeing the result. Looks to me like zero force on the small end, but appearances can be deceiving.
Quote from: Rodal on 07/31/2015 07:49 pmQuote from: X_RaY on 07/31/2015 07:46 pmQuote from: X_RaY on 07/31/2015 04:55 pmQuote from: flux_capacitor on 07/30/2015 08:53 pm@zellerium: the "cardboard-like square part" is a thin piece made of mica which covers the end of the waveguide in a microwave oven. Mica (as well as white Teflon) is indeed transparent to microwaves. It lets the EM waves pass through it but protects the food from being impregnated by some undesirable substance that may be emitted from the magnetron cavity, like oil or metallic particles.This is a thought to EmDrive DIYers: maybe it is a good idea to insert a Teflon or Mica sheet in the waveguide to protect the interior of the cavity from those substances, in the same manner as food is protected in the oven.@Rodal, flux capacitor and all other experts:I was thinking about the glimmer plate inside the microwave cooking oven and MW sputtering technique. Without such a plate how many metal ions would enter the cavity? Is it possible that the ions (with high velocity a.k. relativistic mass times rest mass) cause the trust while the EM-field inside the cavity give them preferred direction to a single end plate? @flux capacitorThanks for surprising to Tajmar. Here one can see how important the peer review process really is!Is there really no one with ideas about (blue text) ? Yes, I had an idea, which was to "like" your post, which meant that I agree with you that this is another possible source of thrust. I know about your like But the magnitude of this effect is not really clear for me at the moment, how many mass(particles/s will be emit) using a standard magnetron? That's what i ask for.Maybe it's a little less or it's not? And with regard to thrust after 'Power off' in several experiments, i am not sure about the relevance.
Quote from: X_RaY on 07/31/2015 07:46 pmQuote from: X_RaY on 07/31/2015 04:55 pmQuote from: flux_capacitor on 07/30/2015 08:53 pm@zellerium: the "cardboard-like square part" is a thin piece made of mica which covers the end of the waveguide in a microwave oven. Mica (as well as white Teflon) is indeed transparent to microwaves. It lets the EM waves pass through it but protects the food from being impregnated by some undesirable substance that may be emitted from the magnetron cavity, like oil or metallic particles.This is a thought to EmDrive DIYers: maybe it is a good idea to insert a Teflon or Mica sheet in the waveguide to protect the interior of the cavity from those substances, in the same manner as food is protected in the oven.@Rodal, flux capacitor and all other experts:I was thinking about the glimmer plate inside the microwave cooking oven and MW sputtering technique. Without such a plate how many metal ions would enter the cavity? Is it possible that the ions (with high velocity a.k. relativistic mass times rest mass) cause the trust while the EM-field inside the cavity give them preferred direction to a single end plate? @flux capacitorThanks for surprising to Tajmar. Here one can see how important the peer review process really is!Is there really no one with ideas about (blue text) ? Yes, I had an idea, which was to "like" your post, which meant that I agree with you that this is another possible source of thrust.
Quote from: X_RaY on 07/31/2015 04:55 pmQuote from: flux_capacitor on 07/30/2015 08:53 pm@zellerium: the "cardboard-like square part" is a thin piece made of mica which covers the end of the waveguide in a microwave oven. Mica (as well as white Teflon) is indeed transparent to microwaves. It lets the EM waves pass through it but protects the food from being impregnated by some undesirable substance that may be emitted from the magnetron cavity, like oil or metallic particles.This is a thought to EmDrive DIYers: maybe it is a good idea to insert a Teflon or Mica sheet in the waveguide to protect the interior of the cavity from those substances, in the same manner as food is protected in the oven.@Rodal, flux capacitor and all other experts:I was thinking about the glimmer plate inside the microwave cooking oven and MW sputtering technique. Without such a plate how many metal ions would enter the cavity? Is it possible that the ions (with high velocity a.k. relativistic mass times rest mass) cause the trust while the EM-field inside the cavity give them preferred direction to a single end plate? @flux capacitorThanks for surprising to Tajmar. Here one can see how important the peer review process really is!Is there really no one with ideas about (blue text) ?
Quote from: flux_capacitor on 07/30/2015 08:53 pm@zellerium: the "cardboard-like square part" is a thin piece made of mica which covers the end of the waveguide in a microwave oven. Mica (as well as white Teflon) is indeed transparent to microwaves. It lets the EM waves pass through it but protects the food from being impregnated by some undesirable substance that may be emitted from the magnetron cavity, like oil or metallic particles.This is a thought to EmDrive DIYers: maybe it is a good idea to insert a Teflon or Mica sheet in the waveguide to protect the interior of the cavity from those substances, in the same manner as food is protected in the oven.@Rodal, flux capacitor and all other experts:I was thinking about the glimmer plate inside the microwave cooking oven and MW sputtering technique. Without such a plate how many metal ions would enter the cavity? Is it possible that the ions (with high velocity a.k. relativistic mass times rest mass) cause the trust while the EM-field inside the cavity give them preferred direction to a single end plate? @flux capacitorThanks for surprising to Tajmar. Here one can see how important the peer review process really is!
@zellerium: the "cardboard-like square part" is a thin piece made of mica which covers the end of the waveguide in a microwave oven. Mica (as well as white Teflon) is indeed transparent to microwaves. It lets the EM waves pass through it but protects the food from being impregnated by some undesirable substance that may be emitted from the magnetron cavity, like oil or metallic particles.This is a thought to EmDrive DIYers: maybe it is a good idea to insert a Teflon or Mica sheet in the waveguide to protect the interior of the cavity from those substances, in the same manner as food is protected in the oven.
Quote from: aero on 08/01/2015 12:29 am@SeeShells and @Rodal,The data you are referring to was something I generated after reading a post/paper by Dr. Rodal in which he discussed extending the Brady frustum, using the same big end diameter and the same taper angle, but extending until the small end diameter equalled 25% of the big end diameter. The views posted are for the start of the cavity, power on until some cycles later. We remarked at the time about the changing range of the signal causing color changes, but no one realized that I had discovered the first step in inventing the "flashy light thingee" used by the Men in Black.I have used time today to re-run that model generating what has become rather standard upload data, both csv files and png views, here: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B1XizxEfB23tfkZVbi1MY2RQZmVkeEVHUmVfQkc3UEdlVkdOVXZENmFYbmg4czJUd1lqcDg&usp=sharingRead the data request file, where I blamed Rodal for asking for the data. I copied some data from my meep run log into the file giving basic cavity and run information. I did not use run logs back in mid June but it is the same model so today's run log data should be the same as was ran back in June. I don't recall where the 2.14 GHz center drive frequency number came from, perhaps it was Harminv.In any case, I hope this data tells us something, and Dr. Rodal, the complete set of 14 time slice csv files are there so you now have the data to calculate stresses. I'd be interested in seeing the result. Looks to me like zero force on the small end, but appearances can be deceiving.Where is the antenna (dipole?) located what orientation and how big is it?Big diameter = metersSmall Diameter = metersLocation of Big base = row and columnLocation of Small base = row and columnTotal Meep run time = Total Number of Time Slices =Total Number of Finite Difference time steps =Thanks
...I disagree with this as a possibility for reported thrust results, not that much on magnitude arguments but because, again, this is a closed device ...
...2) His remarks about buying the microwave oven and the cooking oil were in jest. I doubt he had the time to do that personally. Maybe the guy that is on vacation was the one that bought the cooking oil....
Quote from: Rodal on 07/31/2015 04:34 pm...2) His remarks about buying the microwave oven and the cooking oil were in jest. I doubt he had the time to do that personally. Maybe the guy that is on vacation was the one that bought the cooking oil....Isn't putting cooking oil in an experiment involving vacuum asking for troubles ? I mean, it likely is not low vapour pressure (like would be vacuum pump oil), has high water content...
After seeing that vid I'm adding another artifact candidate - steam jet.
Quote from: frobnicat on 08/01/2015 12:51 am...I disagree with this as a possibility for reported thrust results, not that much on magnitude arguments but because, again, this is a closed device ...And how do you know that this is such a hermetically closed device In the first thread we were discussing the possibility of warm air being exhausted as a jet. You conducted calculations. What has happened as of late that you are so convinced now that this is a hermetically closed device that we cannot discuss this exhaust???