Poll

Of the private lots remaining in the Starship Assembly Area, which will be the last or within the last group to sell to SpaceX?

173660
3 (7.1%)
173661
1 (2.4%)
173662
0 (0%)
173667
1 (2.4%)
173666
2 (4.8%)
173658
7 (16.7%)
173652
2 (4.8%)
173648
4 (9.5%)
173713
3 (7.1%)
173714
2 (4.8%)
173719
4 (9.5%)
173720
3 (7.1%)
173722
3 (7.1%)
173727
1 (2.4%)
173728
0 (0%)
173730
6 (14.3%)

Total Members Voted: 42

Voting closed: 06/29/2020 07:31 pm


Author Topic: SpaceX Boca Chica Property Acquisition  (Read 711289 times)

Offline Okie_Steve

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Re: SpaceX Boca Chica Property Acquisition
« Reply #1800 on: 05/01/2023 04:30 pm »
I think you meant 173065. Indeed it, 172091 and also 172095 are government owned. Unitx said he wanted to think about the best balance between helpful information and color overload, 172100 is an experiment. Similarly the motel is a judgement call,  mentally substitute structure for residence if that helps.

Offline Okie_Steve

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Re: SpaceX Boca Chica Property Acquisition
« Reply #1801 on: 05/10/2023 07:45 pm »
« Last Edit: 05/10/2023 07:50 pm by Okie_Steve »

Offline Simmie82

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Re: SpaceX Boca Chica Property Acquisition
« Reply #1802 on: 05/11/2023 01:07 pm »
I think you meant 173065
Oops, yes, I did.

The County records are in to May now, another Greater Starbase purchase. Down by the river. ID:172861
Interesting observation: almost all the adjacent lots are owned by the estate of the same person, who died in 2010, and who owns 49 lots in Cameron County, all of which are in the vicinity of Quicksilver Ave, with a total assessed value of $310,000. From a bit of sleuthing around public records and obituaries, I believe the deceased owner was the younger brother of the (also deceased) original developer of that subdivision in the 1970s it appears they never managed to sell any more than a handful, this lot is one of the few they did so SpaceX could potentially acquire all those lots in one transaction, if they succeed in negotiating with the deceased's family.

Offline pyromatter

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Re: SpaceX Boca Chica Property Acquisition
« Reply #1803 on: 05/12/2023 05:54 pm »
Another one.

LAGUNA MADRE BEACH SUBDIVISION LOTS 1 TO 22 BLK 95
Property ID: 172263

Offline Okie_Steve

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Re: SpaceX Boca Chica Property Acquisition
« Reply #1804 on: 05/12/2023 08:51 pm »
Interesting, in the past they have rarely purchased underwater lots other than as part of an all or nothing sort of deal. Texas Parks owns many of the surrounding lots. I wonder if this might be in preparation for future horse trading with them or maybe something to do with San Martin?

Offline catdlr

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Re: SpaceX Boca Chica Property Acquisition
« Reply #1805 on: 05/12/2023 09:15 pm »
Property Values have gone up another 33-33% from last year,

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxAybtWsGJu2elpZ87CBVNMZgBc3eSFD1P
Tony De La Rosa

Offline Tangilinear Interjar

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Re: SpaceX Boca Chica Property Acquisition
« Reply #1806 on: 05/13/2023 10:03 pm »
Interesting, in the past they have rarely purchased underwater lots other than as part of an all or nothing sort of deal. Texas Parks owns many of the surrounding lots. I wonder if this might be in preparation for future horse trading with them or maybe something to do with San Martin?

I'm not sure of the exact mechanics of the wetlands rebuilding/remediation or whatever it is that is required by the Army Corps of Engineers but I do know that for SpaceX to utilize the lower wet areas around the launch facility they must recreate some new areas in exchange.

Does anyone here understand the mechanics of that rule? It seems that if SpaceX bought up a bunch of underwater areas like this they may be able to meet the rules and exchange that land for the area around the launch facility.

Offline baking

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Re: SpaceX Boca Chica Property Acquisition
« Reply #1807 on: 05/15/2023 01:50 pm »
Interesting, in the past they have rarely purchased underwater lots other than as part of an all or nothing sort of deal. Texas Parks owns many of the surrounding lots. I wonder if this might be in preparation for future horse trading with them or maybe something to do with San Martin?

I'm not sure of the exact mechanics of the wetlands rebuilding/remediation or whatever it is that is required by the Army Corps of Engineers but I do know that for SpaceX to utilize the lower wet areas around the launch facility they must recreate some new areas in exchange.

Does anyone here understand the mechanics of that rule? It seems that if SpaceX bought up a bunch of underwater areas like this they may be able to meet the rules and exchange that land for the area around the launch facility.
Pretty sure it would have to be dry land that was turned into wetlands, and maybe something contiguous with existing protected areas.

RGV Aerial had a discussion this week about a LNG pipeline across the mudflats so maybe that is a reason to buy up underwater lots.
« Last Edit: 05/15/2023 01:52 pm by baking »

Offline Simmie82

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Re: SpaceX Boca Chica Property Acquisition
« Reply #1808 on: 05/18/2023 12:25 pm »
Pretty sure it would have to be dry land that was turned into wetlands, and maybe something contiguous with existing protected areas.
Lot 171648 is rather interesting it is a wetland mitigation bank, owned by Lower Texas Coastal Mitigation LLC. That company started by SWCA Environmental Consultants is improving that area of wetland, in exchange for which the Army Corps of Engineers gives them "mitigation credits", which they can then sell to people who need them in order to get permits to destroy wetlands in other parts of Cameron County whether SpaceX, or the LNG terminal project, or whoever. Here's their prospectus https://www.swg.usace.army.mil/Portals/26/docs/regulatory/PN%20Mar/Plans.201800235.pdf?ver=2018-03-27-170056-760

One thing that prospectus mentions which I've never heard of before, is the SpaceX PRM site (PRM=Permittee-responsible mitigation) an area which SpaceX has promised to protect and restore to make up for their environmental damage to another area (see Figure 2, PDF page 14).

From reading that PDF, I think part of the problem is that there is a shortage of mitigation credits in this area. This mitigation bank is supposed to remedy some of that, but I don't know if they've succeeded in getting their credits issued yet, and then once they have them, SpaceX and them need to agree on a price, and also there will be competition from other buyers such as the LNG terminal. But possibly, in the future, if SpaceX purchases enough mitigation credits, they may succeed in getting the approval they need.

I also found the rules which govern all this: https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2015-03/documents/2008_04_10_wetlands_wetlands_mitigation_final_rule_4_10_08.pdf

Offline Tangilinear Interjar

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Re: SpaceX Boca Chica Property Acquisition
« Reply #1809 on: 05/18/2023 06:01 pm »
Pretty sure it would have to be dry land that was turned into wetlands, and maybe something contiguous with existing protected areas.
Lot 171648 is rather interesting it is a wetland mitigation bank, owned by Lower Texas Coastal Mitigation LLC. That company started by SWCA Environmental Consultants is improving that area of wetland, in exchange for which the Army Corps of Engineers gives them "mitigation credits", which they can then sell to people who need them in order to get permits to destroy wetlands in other parts of Cameron County whether SpaceX, or the LNG terminal project, or whoever. Here's their prospectus https://www.swg.usace.army.mil/Portals/26/docs/regulatory/PN%20Mar/Plans.201800235.pdf?ver=2018-03-27-170056-760

One thing that prospectus mentions which I've never heard of before, is the SpaceX PRM site (PRM=Permittee-responsible mitigation) an area which SpaceX has promised to protect and restore to make up for their environmental damage to another area (see Figure 2, PDF page 14).

From reading that PDF, I think part of the problem is that there is a shortage of mitigation credits in this area. This mitigation bank is supposed to remedy some of that, but I don't know if they've succeeded in getting their credits issued yet, and then once they have them, SpaceX and them need to agree on a price, and also there will be competition from other buyers such as the LNG terminal. But possibly, in the future, if SpaceX purchases enough mitigation credits, they may succeed in getting the approval they need.

I also found the rules which govern all this: https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2015-03/documents/2008_04_10_wetlands_wetlands_mitigation_final_rule_4_10_08.pdf

LoL, this is the exact situation that I was asking about in post #1806 above.

Thanks for the info! A little lite reading for the morning.

Offline Okie_Steve

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Re: SpaceX Boca Chica Property Acquisition
« Reply #1810 on: 05/20/2023 01:28 am »
https://cameron.tx.publicsearch.us/results?department=RP&recordedDateRange=20230501%2C20230517&searchOcrText=false&searchType=quickSearch&searchValue=Space%20exploration

More activity. The legal action between SpaceX and Novus Prime about lot #173643 is heating up.
Also purchased lots 171944, 172353 (but oddly not 172354) near the end of LBJ and 173385-173386 in South Shores
« Last Edit: 05/20/2023 01:56 am by Okie_Steve »

Offline Simmie82

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Re: SpaceX Boca Chica Property Acquisition
« Reply #1811 on: 05/21/2023 04:48 am »
The legal action between SpaceX and Novus Prime about lot #173643 is heating up.
I haven't heard anything about this, and I can find almost nothing online. The case number is 2021-DCL-03184 in the 107th Judicial District of Cameron County. You aware of anything covering this?

Only resource I found was https://trellis.law/case/48061/2021-dcl-03184/space-exploration-technologies-corp-vs-novus-prime-properties-llc which is an outdated summary of the docket. Cameron County court dockets are on "iDocket.com" which is a paid subscription service.

Also purchased lots 171944, 172353 (but oddly not 172354) near the end of LBJ and 173385-173386 in South Shores
I'm wondering if there was just some delay in the paperwork? 172353, 172354, 173385 and 173386 are the four lots that owner (a deceased estate) owns in Cameron County. I thought SpaceX's usual policy was "all or nothing" for lots in their area of interest (Boca Chica and its immediate vicinity), and it seems kind of random for an estate to ask for and get from them an exception for that specific lot. Accidental delay in paperwork seems the most likely explanation.

Offline Nydoc

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Re: SpaceX Boca Chica Property Acquisition
« Reply #1812 on: 05/21/2023 07:20 pm »
https://cameron.tx.publicsearch.us/results?department=RP&recordedDateRange=20230501%2C20230517&searchOcrText=false&searchType=quickSearch&searchValue=Space%20exploration

More activity. The legal action between SpaceX and Novus Prime about lot #173643 is heating up.
Also purchased lots 171944, 172353 (but oddly not 172354) near the end of LBJ and 173385-173386 in South Shores
Specifically this was a notice of lis pendens:

Sec. 12.007.  LIS PENDENS.  (a)  After the plaintiff's statement in an eminent domain proceeding is filed or during the pendency of an action involving title to real property, the establishment of an interest in real property, or the enforcement of an encumbrance against real property, a party to the action who is seeking affirmative relief may file for record with the county clerk of each county where a part of the property is located a notice that the action is pending.

(b)  The party filing a lis pendens or the party's agent or attorney shall sign the lis pendens, which must state:

(1)  the style and number, if any, of the proceeding;

(2)  the court in which the proceeding is pending;

(3)  the names of the parties;

(4)  the kind of proceeding;  and

(5)  a description of the property affected.

(c)  The county clerk shall record the notice in a lis pendens record.  The clerk shall index the record in a direct and reverse index under the name of each party to the proceeding.

(d)  Not later than the third day after the date a person files a notice for record under this section, the person must serve a copy of the notice on each party to the action who has an interest in the real property affected by the notice.

Offline alugobi

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Re: SpaceX Boca Chica Property Acquisition
« Reply #1813 on: 05/21/2023 07:34 pm »
This was the guy who kept it mowed?  Then offered to sell?  And now wants out of the deal?

Offline Okie_Steve

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Re: SpaceX Boca Chica Property Acquisition
« Reply #1814 on: 05/21/2023 09:37 pm »
No, this is 173643, the vacant lot on the other side of the propulsion building from there. Novus Prime bought multiple other properties in BC  early on and later sold them to SpaceX. There is apparently some contractual dispute about this last one. It has been sitting unused for a couple of years since SpaceX cleared filled and leveled it.
« Last Edit: 05/21/2023 09:59 pm by Okie_Steve »

Offline alugobi

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Re: SpaceX Boca Chica Property Acquisition
« Reply #1815 on: 05/21/2023 10:51 pm »
Yeah, ok, I confused the two.  They both were islands in the middle of the SX production yard; looks like the mowed lot is already assimilated.

Offline danneely

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Re: SpaceX Boca Chica Property Acquisition
« Reply #1816 on: 05/22/2023 12:08 pm »
I'm wondering if there was just some delay in the paperwork? 172353, 172354, 173385 and 173386 are the four lots that owner (a deceased estate) owns in Cameron County. I thought SpaceX's usual policy was "all or nothing" for lots in their area of interest (Boca Chica and its immediate vicinity), and it seems kind of random for an estate to ask for and get from them an exception for that specific lot. Accidental delay in paperwork seems the most likely explanation.

IIRC they've done a few partial buys of dry lots, presumably when the owner didn't want to sell all of them for some reason.  All or nothing was in regards to them (until the recent large swamp lot deal) only taking swamp lots as part of package deals with people who also had a dry lot.

Offline danneely

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Re: SpaceX Boca Chica Property Acquisition
« Reply #1817 on: 05/26/2023 03:01 am »
The legal action between SpaceX and Novus Prime about lot #173643 is heating up.
I haven't heard anything about this, and I can find almost nothing online. The case number is 2021-DCL-03184 in the 107th Judicial District of Cameron County. You aware of anything covering this?

Only resource I found was https://trellis.law/case/48061/2021-dcl-03184/space-exploration-technologies-corp-vs-novus-prime-properties-llc which is an outdated summary of the docket. Cameron County court dockets are on "iDocket.com" which is a paid subscription service.

Reading that document the issue seems to be over some sort of larger agreement about buying property in the Boca Chica area.  It was just about Novus trying to get information from SpaceX via discovery and written assuming anyone reading it would have a lot of background on the dispute so it wasn't entirely clear what the issue was.

Offline Stourwalk

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Re: SpaceX Boca Chica Property Acquisition
« Reply #1818 on: 05/26/2023 02:53 pm »
The legal action between SpaceX and Novus Prime about lot #173643 is heating up.
I haven't heard anything about this, and I can find almost nothing online. The case number is 2021-DCL-03184 in the 107th Judicial District of Cameron County. You aware of anything covering this?

Only resource I found was https://trellis.law/case/48061/2021-dcl-03184/space-exploration-technologies-corp-vs-novus-prime-properties-llc which is an outdated summary of the docket. Cameron County court dockets are on "iDocket.com" which is a paid subscription service.

The document posted on May 16th, seems to make it clear what the issue is (at least from the SpaceX point of view) - IANAL, but purchasing property within an area that you had agreed not to, with the express intention of then reselling it to SpaceX for a profit, seems like a bad idea  :)


Reading that document the issue seems to be over some sort of larger agreement about buying property in the Boca Chica area.  It was just about Novus trying to get information from SpaceX via discovery and written assuming anyone reading it would have a lot of background on the dispute so it wasn't entirely clear what the issue was.

Offline Okie_Steve

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Re: SpaceX Boca Chica Property Acquisition
« Reply #1819 on: 05/29/2023 01:04 am »
Given that the old propulsion building is already partially gone in this screen grab from the latest RGV Aerial Photography video and other video has shown deconstruction starting on the ground fabrication building,  SpaceX must be feeling fairly confident about the ultimate status of that vacant lot between them.
« Last Edit: 05/29/2023 01:05 am by Okie_Steve »

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