The Frustums vary a bit is size, by mine is 10.2 inches height by 11.01 large diameter and 6.25 small diameter. Is your system capable of this?
Quote from: SeeShells on 10/28/2015 05:43 pmQuote from: not_a_physicist on 10/28/2015 05:27 pmQuote from: rfmwguy on 10/28/2015 04:28 pmOK, so Potomac Neuron wrote me back at reddit and I'm having trouble digesting this visual. Perhaps someone here can. He said that the lorentz force will have a vertical component, like a Compass Needle mounted vertically.I'm at a bit of a duh moment I cannot visualize. Anything to this?I think it is this: If you have a compass on its side such that N points towards the sky and W points north, then it will rotate itself such that N points north and W points towards the ground. That rotation is on the axis that could make a balance beam tilt, so we would describe the force it's producing as having a vertical component.The earths field isn't as simple as a bar magnet with a piece of paper over it and iron fillings scattered on it.ShellGuess I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue (Airplane 1980) but what gives a vertical force to a common compass, which I can only imagine as a horizontal force? Help me shell...
Quote from: not_a_physicist on 10/28/2015 05:27 pmQuote from: rfmwguy on 10/28/2015 04:28 pmOK, so Potomac Neuron wrote me back at reddit and I'm having trouble digesting this visual. Perhaps someone here can. He said that the lorentz force will have a vertical component, like a Compass Needle mounted vertically.I'm at a bit of a duh moment I cannot visualize. Anything to this?I think it is this: If you have a compass on its side such that N points towards the sky and W points north, then it will rotate itself such that N points north and W points towards the ground. That rotation is on the axis that could make a balance beam tilt, so we would describe the force it's producing as having a vertical component.The earths field isn't as simple as a bar magnet with a piece of paper over it and iron fillings scattered on it.Shell
Quote from: rfmwguy on 10/28/2015 04:28 pmOK, so Potomac Neuron wrote me back at reddit and I'm having trouble digesting this visual. Perhaps someone here can. He said that the lorentz force will have a vertical component, like a Compass Needle mounted vertically.I'm at a bit of a duh moment I cannot visualize. Anything to this?I think it is this: If you have a compass on its side such that N points towards the sky and W points north, then it will rotate itself such that N points north and W points towards the ground. That rotation is on the axis that could make a balance beam tilt, so we would describe the force it's producing as having a vertical component.
OK, so Potomac Neuron wrote me back at reddit and I'm having trouble digesting this visual. Perhaps someone here can. He said that the lorentz force will have a vertical component, like a Compass Needle mounted vertically.I'm at a bit of a duh moment I cannot visualize. Anything to this?
...The Earth looks like a huge bar magnet. At a gross level (there are local variations), the magnetic field is parallel to the Earth's surface at the equator, and vertical to the Earth's surface at the poles. Which is why a magnetic compass is useless for polar navigation. The needle wants to point at the center of the Earth.This effect is known as magnetic dip, or magnetic inclination. High quality compasses (for example, those used in aircraft), are specifically designed for use in particular areas. One buys a compass for northern or southern hemisphere use, and sometimes based upon the latitude of intended use. The higher the latitude, the greater the dip, and the compass is designed to compensate (to a point, no magnetic compass will work at the Earth's poles to indicate direction. At the North Pole, north is down).
Quote from: rq3 on 10/28/2015 09:31 pm...The Earth looks like a huge bar magnet. At a gross level (there are local variations), the magnetic field is parallel to the Earth's surface at the equator, and vertical to the Earth's surface at the poles. Which is why a magnetic compass is useless for polar navigation. The needle wants to point at the center of the Earth.This effect is known as magnetic dip, or magnetic inclination. High quality compasses (for example, those used in aircraft), are specifically designed for use in particular areas. One buys a compass for northern or southern hemisphere use, and sometimes based upon the latitude of intended use. The higher the latitude, the greater the dip, and the compass is designed to compensate (to a point, no magnetic compass will work at the Earth's poles to indicate direction. At the North Pole, north is down).I don't think the geomagnetic field is a strong influence in em-drive measurement error. The paper recently talked about was concerned with the powerful NIB magnets used to dampen the balance. The Earth's magnetic field has a field strength of 5X10-5 Tesla. The force on a current carrying length of wire due to an external magnetic field that is aligned at right angles to it is:F = BIL, where I = current in Amps (assume 10 Amps), L = length in meters (assume .01 Meters)so the resultant force woukd be F = 5X10-5 X 10 X .001 = 5 microNewton.This is just a rough estimate and on the high side by maybe a factor of 10 but it does give us an idea of how small the effect of the geomagnetic field would be.And shielding with mumetal will not work. The magnetic field generated by a current carrying wire just goes into the mumetal where it meets any external magnetic field. Mumetal shielding only works when the item being shielded, like a Gaussmeter's Hall effect probe, has very small currents flowing through it.
Quote from: wallofwolfstreet on 10/27/2015 01:55 pmResonance does create more heat than no resonance though. This is very well known and nothing new; it has to do with impedance, power factor, etc. The short of it is that in the real world, all resonant systems will reach a maximum stored energy where they dissipate energy at the same rate they take energy in, because no system is perfectly resonant in the sense of zero losses. At resonance, more energy is delivered to the system than if it were off resonance. Hence more power is dissipated and therefore the system gets hotter. So unfortunately, characterizing thermal lift by screwing around with resonance won't work, because thermal lift is itself intimately tied in with resonance. Change resonance, change thermal lift. How much energy can you store in copper frustum of this size with reasonable Q? And how quickly will it reach steady-state? I'm sure when the system is loaded, the heat produced would be the same in resonating and non-resonating cavity, considering the same power is injected.I don't see how the system would get hotter in resonance assuming the measurement period is long enough.
Resonance does create more heat than no resonance though. This is very well known and nothing new; it has to do with impedance, power factor, etc. The short of it is that in the real world, all resonant systems will reach a maximum stored energy where they dissipate energy at the same rate they take energy in, because no system is perfectly resonant in the sense of zero losses. At resonance, more energy is delivered to the system than if it were off resonance. Hence more power is dissipated and therefore the system gets hotter. So unfortunately, characterizing thermal lift by screwing around with resonance won't work, because thermal lift is itself intimately tied in with resonance. Change resonance, change thermal lift.
I think folks should focus on their builds and producing results that can be reproduced rather than focusing on magnetic force interactions.Next step may be a CubeSat that can be tested near the edges of magnetic interactions in a vacuum and micro-gravity conditions.Maybe some of you ought to start talking to the Planetary Society.
Quote from: Bob Woods on 10/29/2015 12:11 amI think folks should focus on their builds and producing results that can be reproduced rather than focusing on magnetic force interactions.Next step may be a CubeSat that can be tested near the edges of magnetic interactions in a vacuum and micro-gravity conditions.Maybe some of you ought to start talking to the Planetary Society.They're using 'toysat' builders and have not had good success. If I build it, you've got a chance it might actually work once it gets to space. To do that, we'd need a unit that has a max diameter of 20cm (for it to fit into a 12u cubesat).(Yes, I build satellites for a living... http://tinyurl.com/lcross-is-go )
Quote from: VAXHeadroom on 10/29/2015 12:41 amQuote from: Bob Woods on 10/29/2015 12:11 amI think folks should focus on their builds and producing results that can be reproduced rather than focusing on magnetic force interactions.Next step may be a CubeSat that can be tested near the edges of magnetic interactions in a vacuum and micro-gravity conditions.Maybe some of you ought to start talking to the Planetary Society.They're using 'toysat' builders and have not had good success. If I build it, you've got a chance it might actually work once it gets to space. To do that, we'd need a unit that has a max diameter of 20cm (for it to fit into a 12u cubesat).(Yes, I build satellites for a living... http://tinyurl.com/lcross-is-go )Problem with cubesat is serious power supply for frustum probably cannot fit into dimensions, not to mention the frustum itself. A 40 cm square drives resonant freq up, driving rf source power down. Tried to imagine an inflatable frustum but had a brain tilt.
Quote from: Bob Woods on 10/29/2015 12:11 amI think folks should focus on their builds and producing results that can be reproduced rather than focusing on magnetic force interactions.Next step may be a CubeSat that can be tested near the edges of magnetic interactions in a vacuum and micro-gravity conditions.Maybe some of you ought to start talking to the Planetary Society.Your URL did not wok for me. Can you check it?YouThey're using 'toysat' builders and have not had good success. If I build it, you've got a chance it might actually work once it gets to space. To do that, we'd need a unit that has a max diameter of 20cm (for it to fit into a 12u cubesat).(Yes, I build satellites for a living... http://tinyurl.com/lcross-is-go )
Quote from: Bob Woods on 10/29/2015 12:11 amI think folks should focus on their builds and producing results that can be reproduced rather than focusing on magnetic force interactions.Next step may be a CubeSat that can be tested near the edges of magnetic interactions in a vacuum and micro-gravity conditions.Maybe some of you ought to start talking to the Planetary Society.Cubesat has a dimensional problem, meaning a 40 cm w x h limit. Most of our stuff is larger. I've read a little about smallsat but don't have enough info. Cubesat does have 40 cm lengths, so if someone comes up with a working model like the Aachen team, it might work.Still think its too early to plan for space launch, but one can dream big.
My next questions would be: How long would it take to create an obvious rotation with 5 W injected into dual opposing frustums? (and what rotation could be deemed proof of concept?)Can a 5 W Ka band transmitter and two smaller frustums fit on a 6u Cubesat with all other necessary components? Will the transmitter have the frequency range necessary to power the frustum at the temperature extremes?
To detect rotation just add cameras to the top and side of the cubesat. We can watch the stars move and use that to calculate the speed of rotation. Small accelerometers are also available.
The most respected labs that have performed this experiment have yielded almost no thrust.