Quote from: Jimmy Murdok on 12/24/2017 08:15 pmThe inner fairing is 4,6m the car is 3,946 mm x 1,873 mm. The hypotenuse is 4,367. Clearance is a bit tight but on space technology should be fine.There is no “hypotenuse” From above the car fits nicely in a circle the diameter of its length. But your conclusion is correct.
The inner fairing is 4,6m the car is 3,946 mm x 1,873 mm. The hypotenuse is 4,367. Clearance is a bit tight but on space technology should be fine.
Quote from: Comga on 12/25/2017 12:04 amQuote from: Jimmy Murdok on 12/24/2017 08:15 pmThe inner fairing is 4,6m the car is 3,946 mm x 1,873 mm. The hypotenuse is 4,367. Clearance is a bit tight but on space technology should be fine.There is no “hypotenuse” 😉From above the car fits nicely in a circle the diameter of its length. But your conclusion is correct. I think what Jimmy Murdok meant by hypotenuse is the diagonal, which is more important than the length. ~20cm of clearance (~10cm at each corner) is tight for a non-standard payload sitting atop a rocket that will shake the ground a mile away.
Quote from: Jimmy Murdok on 12/24/2017 08:15 pmThe inner fairing is 4,6m the car is 3,946 mm x 1,873 mm. The hypotenuse is 4,367. Clearance is a bit tight but on space technology should be fine.There is no “hypotenuse” 😉From above the car fits nicely in a circle the diameter of its length. But your conclusion is correct.
The length of a Roadster IS the diagonal, or rather, the diameter.
Maybe it’s inclined to look cool.
Where is the rest of the ballast? That Roadster is only 3 Mg max.
Quote from: WizZifnab on 12/24/2017 03:04 pmI assume that Elon maintains ownership of the Tesla after its deployed right? At what point could someone decide to 'salvage' it? I was initially thinking about a time capsule in the trunk. But then thought maybe put some things that would appreciate in value. So that the longer its out there the more valuable they become. To actually encourage development of commercial technology to rendezvous and retrieve...at the very least as a 'prize'.Maybe on Elon's death he releases a list of a few things that might encourage retrieval in the distant future? Hopefully the vehicle itself would be left orbiting in space.QuoteIf I manage to find the Tesla Roadster in Mars orbit and retrieve it, can I keep it? @elonmuskQuoteYesTweets are not exactly legally binding, but someone's floated the idea to Elon already. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/944783379022540800
I assume that Elon maintains ownership of the Tesla after its deployed right? At what point could someone decide to 'salvage' it? I was initially thinking about a time capsule in the trunk. But then thought maybe put some things that would appreciate in value. So that the longer its out there the more valuable they become. To actually encourage development of commercial technology to rendezvous and retrieve...at the very least as a 'prize'.Maybe on Elon's death he releases a list of a few things that might encourage retrieval in the distant future? Hopefully the vehicle itself would be left orbiting in space.
If I manage to find the Tesla Roadster in Mars orbit and retrieve it, can I keep it? @elonmusk
Yes
Quote from: tvg98 on 12/24/2017 03:13 pmQuote from: WizZifnab on 12/24/2017 03:04 pmI assume that Elon maintains ownership of the Tesla after its deployed right? At what point could someone decide to 'salvage' it? I was initially thinking about a time capsule in the trunk. But then thought maybe put some things that would appreciate in value. So that the longer its out there the more valuable they become. To actually encourage development of commercial technology to rendezvous and retrieve...at the very least as a 'prize'.Maybe on Elon's death he releases a list of a few things that might encourage retrieval in the distant future? Hopefully the vehicle itself would be left orbiting in space.QuoteIf I manage to find the Tesla Roadster in Mars orbit and retrieve it, can I keep it? @elonmuskQuoteYesTweets are not exactly legally binding, but someone's floated the idea to Elon already. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/944783379022540800The Outer Space Treaty might apply and thereby prohibit anyone from salvaging.
Quote from: deruch on 12/25/2017 12:34 pmQuote from: tvg98 on 12/24/2017 03:13 pmTweets are not exactly legally binding, but someone's floated the idea to Elon already. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/944783379022540800The Outer Space Treaty might apply and thereby prohibit anyone from salvaging. It's not salvaging if someone gives it to you.
Quote from: tvg98 on 12/24/2017 03:13 pmTweets are not exactly legally binding, but someone's floated the idea to Elon already. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/944783379022540800The Outer Space Treaty might apply and thereby prohibit anyone from salvaging.
Tweets are not exactly legally binding, but someone's floated the idea to Elon already. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/944783379022540800
Quote from: yg1968 on 12/25/2017 02:30 pmQuote from: deruch on 12/25/2017 12:34 pmQuote from: tvg98 on 12/24/2017 03:13 pmTweets are not exactly legally binding, but someone's floated the idea to Elon already. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/944783379022540800The Outer Space Treaty might apply and thereby prohibit anyone from salvaging. It's not salvaging if someone gives it to you.Elon isn't giving it to anyone. He's "abandoning" it in orbit. If someone wants to go get it, Elon's cool with that. Which is pretty much the definition of salvage. But unless the US Govt. is also on board with this being an ok idea, no one can legally go get it even if Elon did give it to anyone. That's true regardless of the retriever's citizenship or where they launched from. In fact, under OST they should be prohibited from launching to recover the roadster unless they already have USG permission to retrieve it. And if they somehow did it on the sly, the US still has the rights to take it back on applying to the government of whatever country the car was in. Of course, none of this is ever likely to happen, so it probably doesn't matter. Or, by the time it could/will happen the OST will likely have been modified so the issue may be irrelevant in practice.
Quote from: deruch on 12/25/2017 07:10 pmQuote from: yg1968 on 12/25/2017 02:30 pmQuote from: deruch on 12/25/2017 12:34 pmQuote from: tvg98 on 12/24/2017 03:13 pmTweets are not exactly legally binding, but someone's floated the idea to Elon already. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/944783379022540800The Outer Space Treaty might apply and thereby prohibit anyone from salvaging. It's not salvaging if someone gives it to you.Elon isn't giving it to anyone. He's "abandoning" it in orbit. If someone wants to go get it, Elon's cool with that. Which is pretty much the definition of salvage. But unless the US Govt. is also on board with this being an ok idea, no one can legally go get it even if Elon did give it to anyone. That's true regardless of the retriever's citizenship or where they launched from. In fact, under OST they should be prohibited from launching to recover the roadster unless they already have USG permission to retrieve it. And if they somehow did it on the sly, the US still has the rights to take it back on applying to the government of whatever country the car was in. Of course, none of this is ever likely to happen, so it probably doesn't matter. Or, by the time it could/will happen the OST will likely have been modified so the issue may be irrelevant in practice.Are satellites considered abandoned after they have completed their mission? I would think they remained property of the owner to perpetuity. If SpaceX launched a mission in 5 years to go get the Roadster, I don't see why the USG would try to stop them. It should still be their property. Same if they legally transfer ownership to another party who then tries to recover it.
Elon isn't giving it to anyone. He's "abandoning" it in orbit.....
Quote from: envy887 on 12/25/2017 09:41 pmQuote from: deruch on 12/25/2017 07:10 pmQuote from: yg1968 on 12/25/2017 02:30 pmQuote from: deruch on 12/25/2017 12:34 pmQuote from: tvg98 on 12/24/2017 03:13 pmTweets are not exactly legally binding, but someone's floated the idea to Elon already. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/944783379022540800The Outer Space Treaty might apply and thereby prohibit anyone from salvaging. It's not salvaging if someone gives it to you.Elon isn't giving it to anyone. He's "abandoning" it in orbit. If someone wants to go get it, Elon's cool with that. Which is pretty much the definition of salvage. But unless the US Govt. is also on board with this being an ok idea, no one can legally go get it even if Elon did give it to anyone. That's true regardless of the retriever's citizenship or where they launched from. In fact, under OST they should be prohibited from launching to recover the roadster unless they already have USG permission to retrieve it. And if they somehow did it on the sly, the US still has the rights to take it back on applying to the government of whatever country the car was in. Of course, none of this is ever likely to happen, so it probably doesn't matter. Or, by the time it could/will happen the OST will likely have been modified so the issue may be irrelevant in practice.Are satellites considered abandoned after they have completed their mission? I would think they remained property of the owner to perpetuity. If SpaceX launched a mission in 5 years to go get the Roadster, I don't see why the USG would try to stop them. It should still be their property. Same if they legally transfer ownership to another party who then tries to recover it.Since the US is the launching country, OST Article VII and VIII doesn't apply if a US citizen/company wants to salvage the car, ...
... the savager still need a FAA launch license though.
Things get murky and complicated if a foreign entity wants to salvage the car.
If the payload is jettisoned off the stage (and contains no ITAR or munitions related content), it should be no different than a vehicle falling off a cargo ship in international waters (which does/has happened).
Quote from: Space Ghost 1962 on 12/26/2017 09:49 pmIf the payload is jettisoned off the stage (and contains no ITAR or munitions related content), it should be no different than a vehicle falling off a cargo ship in international waters (which does/has happened).That doesn't sound right. The payload is intentionally released to follow a pre-determined course. That's not like falling off of a cargo ship and then not being salvaged. It's more like being offloaded and parked.
Quote from: meekGee on 12/26/2017 10:04 pmQuote from: Space Ghost 1962 on 12/26/2017 09:49 pmIf the payload is jettisoned off the stage (and contains no ITAR or munitions related content), it should be no different than a vehicle falling off a cargo ship in international waters (which does/has happened).That doesn't sound right. The payload is intentionally released to follow a pre-determined course. That's not like falling off of a cargo ship and then not being salvaged. It's more like being offloaded and parked.SALVAGE LAW: Do You Get to Keep an Abandoned Boat?