Author Topic: Soyuz MS-22 & Progress MS-21 coolant leaks : Dec 2022 & Feb 2023  (Read 128176 times)

Offline Vettedrmr

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Sam, thanks for the info, it doesn't show up on this page at all to me.

David, what I found wasn't 2 posts above yours; that (on my thread) only showed the twitter post about the disconnect between Roscosmo and NASA.

In any case, what Sam posted does go too far, as you point out. 
Aviation/space enthusiast, retired control system SW engineer, doesn't know anything!

Offline eeergo

Sam, thanks for the info, it doesn't show up on this page at all to me.

David, what I found wasn't 2 posts above yours; that (on my thread) only showed the twitter post about the disconnect between Roscosmo and NASA.

In any case, what Sam posted does go too far, as you point out. 

Wasn't taking into account people might see the thread differently, and anyway Sam is right you have to click through to the tweet thread in order to read the whole statement. Thanks both for clearing that up.
-DaviD-

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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https://twitter.com/katlinegrey/status/1643265344348233728

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Roscosmos specialists dismantle autonomous recording devices of the #SoyuzMS22 descent capsule for further decryption and analysis of stored data on the functioning of the ship's systems during flight and landing - reported Roscosmos. I'm curious if they will publish the results.

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1645486830605721600

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Interesting interview here with the deputy director of Roscosmos. He claims that both the Soyuz and Progress coolant leaks were caused by external objects: "What exactly hit there, no one knows. Our version is a meteoroid. It certainly wasn't space junk."

https://www.interfax.ru/russia/894837

Offline Vettedrmr

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I'm somewhat skeptical...  :o
Aviation/space enthusiast, retired control system SW engineer, doesn't know anything!

Offline Comga

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Interesting interview here with the deputy director of Roscosmos. He claims that both the Soyuz and Progress coolant leaks were caused by external objects: "What exactly hit there, no one knows. Our version is a meteoroid. It certainly wasn't space junk."

Somewhere back in this or a related thread one of our experts on Russian space said something to the effect of:
In Russia, blaming a system failure on micrometeor or debris is the equivalent of saying "My dog ate my homework."

Now they are saying it for two vehicles in a row.
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline mn

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Interesting interview here with the deputy director of Roscosmos. He claims that both the Soyuz and Progress coolant leaks were caused by external objects: "What exactly hit there, no one knows. Our version is a meteoroid. It certainly wasn't space junk."

Somewhere back in this or a related thread one of our experts on Russian space said something to the effect of:
In Russia, blaming a system failure on micrometeor or debris is the equivalent of saying "My dog ate my homework."

Now they are saying it for two vehicles in a row.

They are hanging out in an area known to be frequented by dogs, so 'a dog ate my homework' is not so unreasonable. (Of course the question becomes why suddenly now and two in a row, but at least it's completely plausible on the face of it)

Offline whitelancer64

Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence. But three times...
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"There are lies, damned lies, and launch schedules." - Larry J

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Well, who’d have thought … ;)

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1651658948833845263

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Nelson says NASA and Roscosmos have ruled out a micrometeoroid impact as cause of Soyuz and Progress coolant leaks. Thinks Russians are on top of the investigation.
« Last Edit: 04/28/2023 01:20 am by FutureSpaceTourist »

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1658225738712072192

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NASA's Montalbano says they have confirmed that reports of very high temperatures in the uncrewed Soyuz landing with the coolant leak were incorrect. Cabin temps were in high 70s F (~25 C).

Offline TALsite

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I posted this question in the Crew-6 thread but I didn't have any answer.


Did SpaceX make some improvments in her next capsules to accommodate a fifth (or sixth or seventh) crewmember with a Sokol suit and his Kazbek Mould in the event of a emergency return to Earth?

Offline whitelancer64

I posted this question in the Crew-6 thread but I didn't have any answer.


Did SpaceX make some improvments in her next capsules to accommodate a fifth (or sixth or seventh) crewmember with a Sokol suit and his Kazbek Mould in the event of a emergency return to Earth?

No.

There's a contingency plan to strap down Soyuz seat liners on top of the cargo bags that are beneath the 4 crew seats in Dragon. SpaceX said they could fit three down there if necessary.

No changes to the vehicle.
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
"There are lies, damned lies, and launch schedules." - Larry J

Offline Zed_Noir

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I posted this question in the Crew-6 thread but I didn't have any answer.


Did SpaceX make some improvments in her next capsules to accommodate a fifth (or sixth or seventh) crewmember with a Sokol suit and his Kazbek Mould in the event of a emergency return to Earth?

No.

There's a contingency plan to strap down Soyuz seat liners on top of the cargo bags that are beneath the 4 crew seats in Dragon. SpaceX said they could fit three down there if necessary.

No changes to the vehicle.
Just to add that the crew will not be wearing Sokol suits while strapped down in the seat liners. The Dragon doesn't have the umbilical connections available to the Sokol suits for air supply & cooling. The contingency plan was for Frank Rubio to ride down in the Dragon without the Sokol suit in his seat liner.

Offline zubenelgenubi

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https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1661847214145060864
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ASAP says the investigation into the Soyuz and Progress coolant leaks is still going, with the cause not yet clear. Also monitoring very small air leaks in Russian service module (a long-running, if minor, issue.)
Support your local planetarium! (COVID-panic and forward: Now more than ever.) My current avatar is saying "i wants to go uppies!" Yes, there are God-given rights. Do you wish to gainsay the Declaration of Independence?

Offline dondar

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small general reminder: in Russia department leadership has personal criminal responsibility for major accidents, i.e. total reorganization of everything and  bunch of people in jail. Hence "cow dance on the ice" you witness all the time.It is normal.

 The soviets "solved" it by inventing intradepartmanental investigation (ведомственное расследование) which is specifically designed to focus on what actually happened and why and specifically avoids judgments of "who is to blame".

P.S. 50`C with 50%  humidity is definitely deadly within 1.5 hours (undocking/landing is 3h+). 45`C is deadly within 6h. I don't think they could dream about 50% inside of hermetically closed capsule.

Offline mn

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small general reminder: in Russia department leadership has personal criminal responsibility for major accidents, i.e. total reorganization of everything and  bunch of people in jail. Hence "cow dance on the ice" you witness all the time.It is normal.

 The soviets "solved" it by inventing intradepartmanental investigation (ведомственное расследование) which is specifically designed to focus on what actually happened and why and specifically avoids judgments of "who is to blame".

P.S. 50`C with 50%  humidity is definitely deadly within 1.5 hours (undocking/landing is 3h+). 45`C is deadly within 6h. I don't think they could dream about 50% inside of hermetically closed capsule.

Latest news is roughly 25C (see a few posts above), where are you getting 50C?

Offline dondar

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small general reminder: in Russia department leadership has personal criminal responsibility for major accidents, i.e. total reorganization of everything and  bunch of people in jail. Hence "cow dance on the ice" you witness all the time.It is normal.

 The soviets "solved" it by inventing intradepartmanental investigation (ведомственное расследование) which is specifically designed to focus on what actually happened and why and specifically avoids judgments of "who is to blame".

P.S. 50`C with 50%  humidity is definitely deadly within 1.5 hours (undocking/landing is 3h+). 45`C is deadly within 6h. I don't think they could dream about 50% inside of hermetically closed capsule.

Latest news is roughly 25C (see a few posts above), where are you getting 50C?
latest news was about empty hibernating capsule.
3 humans +active air-circulating system (beside comms and other toys which are passive in the empty capsule)~3x100W_50W~350W/h heat generation. It is A LOT.

Offline cohberg

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Re: Soyuz MS-22 coolant leak : 14/15 December 2022 UTC
« Reply #417 on: 06/08/2023 05:16 pm »
How likely is it that a photo of the setup would be made public?

I FOIAed the seat liner install procedure today but don't have high hopes.

Between Russian assets, SpaceX proprietary information, and NASA stating that the request is not specific enough, I think this one is going to be an uphill battle to 1. get the FOIA accepted and 2. get a document that has more text and pictures than blackouts.

FOIA for the seat install procedure attached. Pictures of Aki in the liner were redacted  >:(

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https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1683884335831691271

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NASA ISS manager Joel Montalbano says the Roscosmos investigation into the Soyuz coolant leak found no evidence of workmanship or other related issues that could have caused it; they believe it was an "external force" that caused it. NASA reviewed that and concurred.

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