Author Topic: Russia says it will pullout from ISS after 2024  (Read 129777 times)

Offline russianhalo117

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Doesn't Russia threaten this like every year?
Sort of yes. This however is quite a different internal nationalist movement/bird to speak of than trying to get the other partners to make further investment. A much stronger internal riddance push by certain ministries and officials with those on the opposing side facing a ship taking on water.

Offline Danderman

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...
And the Service Module (Zvezda) is where the presumed leak is located? So how many wires would need to be manually cut to jettison Zvezda and everything aft of there from the US segment?

It just doesn't seem realistic to me that NASA could operate Zarya without Russian support and parts, even if they do own it. If they're going to let Russia walk away, they should ditch Zarya, too, and completely end the Russian dependency, IMO.

Currently Zarya is needed to desaturate the USOS gyroscopes (CMGs), right? And of course it can handle attitude control if the CMG system is unavailable. Is it needed for anything else?

Zarya’s thrusters have been inactive since 2000.

Offline Danderman

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Russia says to launch own space station in 2025

Quote
Russia's space agency said Tuesday it hoped to launch its own orbital station in 2025 as Moscow considers withdrawing from the International Space Station programme to go it alone.

Roscosmos chief Dmitry Rogozin said work had begun on the fist module of a new station, after officials warned that Russia was considering pulling out of the ISS, one of the few successful examples of cooperation with the West.


https://twitter.com/mattb0401/status/1384533094452109321

Quote
Still no official announcement of Russian withdrawal from ISS in 2025, but here’s the Roscosmos chief teasing construction of a module to be used as the core of a new Russian station in 2025. This module actually was commissioned for ISS in 2024.

Rogozin later explained that Russia isn’t talking about de-orbiting its ISS modules in 2025, but rather a gradual withdrawal from the project over time.

But still no official anything, even though all signs indicate Russia really is tapping out.

Maybe they’re saving the official announcement for Putin’s big speech tomorrow.

If I was the writer of this timeline thats how I’d do it.

This is basically an April 12 announcement. Once made, and then forgotten.

No possibility of a new Russian station in 2025. If the Russians were to abandon ISS in 2025, their human space flight program would end.

Offline sdsds

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Zarya’s thrusters have been inactive since 2000.

But ... isn't control/coordination of thrust from other Russian modules and docked vehicles handled by Zarya?
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Offline jbenton

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Zarya’s thrusters have been inactive since 2000.

But ... isn't control/coordination of thrust from other Russian modules and docked vehicles handled by Zarya?

I thought Zvezda took care of that.

Offline woods170

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Zarya’s thrusters have been inactive since 2000.

But ... isn't control/coordination of thrust from other Russian modules and docked vehicles handled by Zarya?

I thought Zvezda took care of that.

Currently the only permanent module on the Russian Segment of ISS to have thrust capabilities is Zvezda.
Zarya's thrusters were used only until Zvezda arrived, and were decommissioned in 2000.

Removal of Zvezda from ISS is only possible when done via a docked Progress vehicle. It also requires restoring the docking system  - on the Zvezda-to-Zarya docking interface - to full operational status.

With Zvezda undocked a temporary attached vehicle, such as a Progress, will be required for orbital maintenance. That is until a permanent orbital maintenance vehicle can be attached to Zarya. Possibly a PPE derivative.

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Zarya’s thrusters have been inactive since 2000.

But ... isn't control/coordination of thrust from other Russian modules and docked vehicles handled by Zarya?

Zvezda is the C&C center of the ISS, akin to Mir's base block - and by extension of the RS. Most propellant storage is also located there, around the circumference of the transfer chamber that's been the infamous subject of the latest leak episodes.
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Offline r8ix

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I'm a bit confused by "since 2025" in the quote. Does that mean Russian involvement in the ISS ends (if this happens) in 2024 or in 2025?

The final inclination selected for CSS prevents Russian involvement without taking prohibitive mass penalties.

Wait, really?

It's a translation issue. In Russian the word can mean "since", "from" (as in beginning from), "with", or, believe it or not, "congratulations".

Offline Jim

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The final inclination selected for CSS prevents Russian involvement without taking prohibitive mass penalties.

Wait, really?

I'm a bit curious on this statement as well, could someone clarify this.

CSS uses a 42 deg inclination orbit, lower than the latitude of any Russian/Pre-USSR cosmodromes.

Why is that prohibitive? 10-20 degree inclination changes happen all the time.

Not at low altitudes

Offline bobthemonkey

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A slightly more pragmatic approach from Rogozin perhaps?

https://twitter.com/katlinegrey/status/1384885853756002308
« Last Edit: 04/21/2021 03:14 pm by bobthemonkey »

Offline Jim

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Zvezda is the C&C center of the ISS, akin to Mir's base block - and by extension of the RS. Most propellant storage is also located there, around the circumference of the transfer chamber that's been the infamous subject of the latest leak episodes.

No, actually Destiny is.  Zvezda is only the C&C center for propulsive maneuvers.  Destiny controls power and pointing for the whole ISS.

Offline GWR64

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With Zvezda undocked a temporary attached vehicle, such as a Progress, will be required for orbital maintenance. That is until a permanent orbital maintenance vehicle can be attached to Zarya. Possibly a PPE derivative.

Zarya is / was the active part when docking with Zvezda. Zvezda is the base module and has only passive ports.
I don't think Zarya is still able (with the ISS on the bow) perform a active docking maneuver with something.

Offline Lars-J

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The Chinese space station (launching very soon) won't be reachable from either Baikonur nor Vostochny...

So if the Russians join the Chinese space station as very junior partners, they won't be able to access it themselves, thus ending their human spaceflight aspirations for the near term future. That would be the ultimate way to "cutting off your nose to spite your face".

No the only alternative to ISS that isn't a total capitulation of human spaceflight is a new smaller Russian station, probably man-tended rather then permanently manned. (at least initially)
« Last Edit: 04/22/2021 01:49 am by Lars-J »

Offline sdsds

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Removal of Zvezda from ISS is only possible when done via a docked Progress vehicle. It also requires restoring the docking system  - on the Zvezda-to-Zarya docking interface - to full operational status.

With Zvezda undocked a temporary attached vehicle, such as a Progress, will be required for orbital maintenance. That is until a permanent orbital maintenance vehicle can be attached to Zarya. Possibly a PPE derivative.

This provides good insight -- thanks!

Not meaning to be contrarian, but could the propulsion needed for the separation be provided from the other end of the station, e.g. by a Dragon docked at Node 2 forward? This would use the same thrusters Dragon uses to undock itself, except with its hard-dock latches still firmly engaged so the whole USOS moved with it, away from the now unattached Zvezda.

Is that theoretically unfeasible, or merely ... implausible?
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Online Vultur

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This is basically an April 12 announcement. Once made, and then forgotten.

Sorry - does April 12 have special significance in Russia?

A slightly more pragmatic approach from Rogozin perhaps?

What would "on a commercial basis" mean? Having space tourists or paying commercial partners to make up the cost of keeping it running?

The Chinese space station (launching very soon) won't be reachable from either Baikonur nor Vostochny...

Not even with a smaller payload, e.g. barely able to deliver two astronauts, or something?

Offline Orbiter

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This is basically an April 12 announcement. Once made, and then forgotten.

Sorry - does April 12 have special significance in Russia?


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Offline Sam Ho

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Not meaning to be contrarian, but could the propulsion needed for the separation be provided from the other end of the station, e.g. by a Dragon docked at Node 2 forward? This would use the same thrusters Dragon uses to undock itself, except with its hard-dock latches still firmly engaged so the whole USOS moved with it, away from the now unattached Zvezda.

Is that theoretically unfeasible, or merely ... implausible?

Draco is only 400N thrust.

This is basically an April 12 announcement. Once made, and then forgotten.

Sorry - does April 12 have special significance in Russia?
April 12 is Cosmonautics Day, the anniversary of Gagarin's flight.  There's a tradition of grand space announcements then.

Offline russianhalo117

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There has never been discussion of undocking Zvezda as first it and it's docked modules acts as a counterweight and second it hosts the Russia bartered ESA (RSC Energia contracted subcontracted Airbus) built DMS-R main computers which oversees all of the RS operations. When USOS computers hand over to RS computers for attitude and communications control DMS-R does that. Zarya was stripped after early ISS phase and that hardware went back to the ground for reuse in what has now become MLM-U though what was not life expired will fly on it. Note that MLM-U will fly with upgraded next generation DMS-R main computers as well allowing Zvezda's to be upgraded again and to provide a redundant pair.

http://russianspaceweb.com/iss_sm.html
https://www.esa.int/Science_Exploration/Human_and_Robotic_Exploration/International_Space_Station/DMS-R_ESA_s_Data_Management_System

Transfer of ownership as a barter would be the best way to go if the Russian government truly wants an out.
« Last Edit: 04/22/2021 05:20 am by russianhalo117 »

Online Vultur

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April 12 is Cosmonautics Day, the anniversary of Gagarin's flight.  There's a tradition of grand space announcements then.

 :-[ how did I miss that?

Offline AstroWare

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There has never been discussion of undocking Zvezda as first it and it's docked modules acts as a counterweight... (Snip)

Would you mind expanding on why this is important?

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