Testing of a lightweight robotic helicopter designed to fly in the alien atmosphere of Mars has produced encouraging results in recent months, and NASA officials expect to decide soon whether the aerial drone will accompany the agency’s next rover to the red planet set for liftoff in 2020.
Jim Watzin, director of NASA’s robotic Mars exploration program at the agency’s headquarters, said last month that an engineering model of the helicopter has completed 86 minutes of flying time in a test chamber configured to simulate the Martian atmosphere.“The system has been built, it’s been ground tested, and then we put it into a chamber that was backfilled at Mars atmosphere (conditions),” Watzin said Feb. 20 in a presentation to the Mars Exploration Program Analysis Group, a panel of scientists that assists NASA in planning Mars missions. “Some parts were removed from the helicopter to compensate for the 1g (gravity) field to get the proper relationship of mass and acceleration at Mars, and we did controlled takeoffs, slewing, translations, hovers and controlled landings in the chamber. We’ve done that multiple times.”
Also a great candidate to just dump large numbers of with simple parachutes, as it is its own landing system.
Quote from: speedevil on 03/16/2018 07:44 pmAlso a great candidate to just dump large numbers of with simple parachutes, as it is its own landing system.no, parachute don't work for landings.
Quote from: Jim on 03/16/2018 08:00 pmQuote from: speedevil on 03/16/2018 07:44 pmAlso a great candidate to just dump large numbers of with simple parachutes, as it is its own landing system.no, parachute don't work for landings.Why doesn't a parachute work?Aeroshell, parachute, ditch the aeroshell, wait till steady state speed, pop out the rotors, land.
I hope drone is selected even if it is high risk. If successful it could dramatically increase amount ground rover can travel in a day. Could even be useful with landers, survey area around lander then reposition lander to new high interest area. Drone survey would allow pin point landing by lander.
Quote from: TrevorMonty on 03/16/2018 08:23 pmI hope drone is selected even if it is high risk. If successful it could dramatically increase amount ground rover can travel in a day. Could even be useful with landers, survey area around lander then reposition lander to new high interest area. Drone survey would allow pin point landing by lander.It would certainly be useful in scouting and surveying, especially before humans were to land at a site. And yeah, for a 'dull' stationary mission like InSight or Phoenix it would add useful PR flare and context about the surrounding terrain; akin to Sojourner for Pathfinder but more functional and longer range.
Another article on the same topic:http://spacenews.com/decision-expected-soon-on-adding-helicopter-to-mars-2020/
I am under the impression that if the drone does go through, it will reduce the risk for Dragonfly.
Dragonfly will use tech that the helicopter pioneers.
Quote from: AegeanBlue on 05/08/2018 11:26 pmDragonfly will use tech that the helicopter pioneers.Read http://dragonfly.jhuapl.edu/docs/DragonflyTechDigestAPL.pdf and tell me if it has anything to do with JPL's toy coaxial.
" the helicopter will just be a flying eyeball."Yes... but a flying eyeball that can look at stuff. For instance, one idea is to scout ahead for a few hundred meters to check out the future drive path. Now, most often, the rover is only commanded to drive as far as its most recent stereo imaging reaches, occasionally adding more distance just using hazard avoidance software. But the longer view might permit longer drives, great for getting from study area 1 to study area 2 as fast as possible. This is only an experimental version of the concept, to be used a few times to see if it can be made to work effectively. If it works well, an enhanced version might be used much more on future missions, including human missions. So that's quite the eyeball.
" the helicopter will just be a flying eyeball."
Quote from: Phil Stooke on 05/09/2018 03:52 am" the helicopter will just be a flying eyeball."In addition to other things mentioned, the 'eyeball' has to land.When it lands, you can pretty much for free get 0.1mm or so footage of what's under the legs, blown somewhat clear by a brief wind of 200MPH or so.Adding a multispectral imager with some filters adds another several grams.Off-the-shelf XRF instruments are 1.5kg, it seems at least plausible that a 'heavy' version of this helicopter could carry the stripped down unshielded sensing head without much change. (one was on Sojourner). Hitting the surface with a several watt diode LASER pulse and seeing what happens can also be very light.(the helicopter has some 500g of margin, which would make it considerably less able to fly well, but still able to fly).A simple sample collection mechanism - a reel of tacky tape running over one leg, for example might be an interesting option.
Read http://dragonfly.jhuapl.edu/docs/DragonflyTechDigestAPL.pdf and tell me if it has anything to do with JPL's toy coaxial.
In many ways, dragonfly is easier.
The cold.
Going from one unknown location to another. Processing pipeline for the data.
May 11, 2018RELEASE 18-035Mars Helicopter to Fly on NASA’s Next Red Planet Rover MissionNASA is sending a helicopter to Mars.The Mars Helicopter, a small, autonomous rotorcraft, will travel with the agency’s Mars 2020 rover mission, currently scheduled to launch in July 2020, to demonstrate the viability and potential of heavier-than-air vehicles on the Red Planet. “NASA has a proud history of firsts,” said NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine. “The idea of a helicopter flying the skies of another planet is thrilling. The Mars Helicopter holds much promise for our future science, discovery, and exploration missions to Mars.”U.S. Rep. John Culberson of Texas echoed Bridenstine’s appreciation of the impact of American firsts on the future of exploration and discovery.“It’s fitting that the United States of America is the first nation in history to fly the first heavier-than-air craft on another world,” Culberson said. “This exciting and visionary achievement will inspire young people all over the United States to become scientists and engineers, paving the way for even greater discoveries in the future.”Started in August 2013 as a technology development project at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), the Mars Helicopter had to prove that big things could come in small packages. The result of the team’s four years of design, testing and redesign weighs in at little under four pounds (1.8 kilograms). Its fuselage is about the size of a softball, and its twin, counter-rotating blades will bite into the thin Martian atmosphere at almost 3,000 rpm – about 10 times the rate of a helicopter on Earth.“Exploring the Red Planet with NASA’s Mars Helicopter exemplifies a successful marriage of science and technology innovation and is a unique opportunity to advance Mars exploration for the future,” said Thomas Zurbuchen, Associate Administrator for NASA's Science Mission Directorate at the agency headquarters in Washington. “After the Wright Brothers proved 117 years ago that powered, sustained, and controlled flight was possible here on Earth, another group of American pioneers may prove the same can be done on another world.”The helicopter also contains built-in capabilities needed for operation at Mars, including solar cells to charge its lithium-ion batteries, and a heating mechanism to keep it warm through the cold Martian nights. But before the helicopter can fly at Mars it has to get there. It will do so attached to the belly pan of the Mars 2020 rover.“The altitude record for a helicopter flying here on Earth is about 40,000 feet. The atmosphere of Mars is only one percent that of Earth, so when our helicopter is on the Martian surface, it’s already at the Earth equivalent of 100,000 feet up,” said Mimi Aung, Mars Helicopter project manager at JPL. “To make it fly at that low atmospheric density, we had to scrutinize everything, make it as light as possible while being as strong and as powerful as it can possibly be.”Once the rover is on the planet’s surface, a suitable location will be found to deploy the helicopter down from the vehicle and place it onto the ground. The rover then will be driven away from the helicopter to a safe distance from which it will relay commands. After its batteries are charged and a myriad of tests are performed, controllers on Earth will command the Mars Helicopter to take its first autonomous flight into history.“We don’t have a pilot and Earth will be several light minutes away, so there is no way to joystick this mission in real time,” said Aung. “Instead, we have an autonomous capability that will be able to receive and interpret commands from the ground, and then fly the mission on its own.”The full 30-day flight test campaign will include up to five flights of incrementally farther flight distances, up to a few hundred meters, and longer durations as long as 90 seconds, over a period. On its first flight, the helicopter will make a short vertical climb to 10 feet (3 meters), where it will hover for about 30 seconds.As a technology demonstration, the Mars Helicopter is considered a high-risk, high-reward project. If it does not work, the Mars 2020 mission will not be impacted. If it does work, helicopters may have a real future as low-flying scouts and aerial vehicles to access locations not reachable by ground travel.“The ability to see clearly what lies beyond the next hill is crucial for future explorers,” said Zurbuchen. “We already have great views of Mars from the surface as well as from orbit. With the added dimension of a bird’s-eye view from a ‘marscopter,’ we can only imagine what future missions will achieve.”Mars 2020 will launch on a United Launch Alliance (ULA) Atlas V rocket from Space Launch Complex 41 at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida, and is expected to reach Mars in February 2021.The rover will conduct geological assessments of its landing site on Mars, determine the habitability of the environment, search for signs of ancient Martian life, and assess natural resources and hazards for future human explorers. Scientists will use the instruments aboard the rover to identify and collect samples of rock and soil, encase them in sealed tubes, and leave them on the planet’s surface for potential return to Earth on a future Mars mission.The Mars 2020 Project at JPL in Pasadena, California, manages rover development for the Science Mission Directorate at NASA Headquarters in Washington. NASA’s Launch Services Program, based at the agency’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida, is responsible for launch management.For more information about NASA’s Mars missions, go to:https://www.nasa.gov/mars-end-
I've attended a number of talks and briefings about the helicopter and about Mars 2020. A few points:<snip>-The helicopter will, however, require time to operate it. That time cuts into the science mission time. There are some people who were very opposed to it because of that. Mars 2020 is a very ambitious mission with a lot to accomplish, so cutting into science time is a risk to the mission objectives.-This helicopter is only a test. It will not have any real science value. <snip>Personally, I am sympathetic to the argument that the helicopter poses a risk to the science operations of the rover. However, I also think that there is tremendous PR value to doing something like this.<snip>
-There are no plans to fly a helicopter on any future mission. So it might not be demonstrating anything of value.
Has anyone in the Mars 2020/Mars Helicopter programs budgeted for a helicopter science/ops team, to work in coordination with the "main" project team?Such an exercise, and executing on the findings, could alleviate both potential issues, and make the helicopter an integral part of the mission ops and science?
Quote from: zubenelgenubi on 05/12/2018 12:07 amHas anyone in the Mars 2020/Mars Helicopter programs budgeted for a helicopter science/ops team, to work in coordination with the "main" project team?Such an exercise, and executing on the findings, could alleviate both potential issues, and make the helicopter an integral part of the mission ops and science?The helicopter is not science. Repeat three times.
I've attended a number of talks and briefings about the helicopter and about Mars 2020. A few points:-Just about everybody involved believes that the risk of the helicopter to the Mars 2020 rover is almost nonexistent.-The helicopter will, however, require time to operate it. That time cuts into the science mission time. There are some people who were very opposed to it because of that. Mars 2020 is a very ambitious mission with a lot to accomplish, so cutting into science time is a risk to the mission objectives.-This helicopter is only a test. It will not have any real science value. -There are no plans to fly a helicopter on any future mission. So it might not be demonstrating anything of value.Personally, I am sympathetic to the argument that the helicopter poses a risk to the science operations of the rover. However, I also think that there is tremendous PR value to doing something like this. There is a perception that NASA is not innovative and does not take risks (which I think is bogus--Curiosity, JWST, and New Horizons are all great examples of NASA being innovative and taking risks). This kind of activity will generate a lot of interest and excitement for NASA, and I think that can be valuable to attracting good talent to the agency and its programs.
Hopefully if this is a successful test mission it might change a few minds about including such devices on other projects.
Engineering is a science technically But this thing is now officially part of Mars 2020?
The full 30-day flight test campaign will include up to five flights of incrementally farther flight distances, up to a few hundred meters, and longer durations as long as 90 seconds, over a period. On its first flight, the helicopter will make a short vertical climb to 10 feet (3 meters), where it will hover for about 30 seconds.
Wouldn't it make sense to put an eight dollar test tube rack on the rover and keep all of the samples in the same place? It seems insane to have to send another rover to pick up the samples the first rover spread all over the place. Does this approach really make sense?
Quote from: redliox on 05/12/2018 02:24 amEngineering is a science technically But this thing is now officially part of Mars 2020?It is.But Mars 2020's primary mission is collecting high quality samples for return to Earth. That goal is very high priority, and nothing will be allowed to interfere with it. Nothing should be allowed to interfere with it.
Once the rover is on the planet’s surface, a suitable location will be found to deploy the helicopter down from the vehicle and place it onto the ground. The rover then will be driven away from the helicopter to a safe distance from which it will relay commands. After its batteries are charged and a myriad of tests are performed, controllers on Earth will command the Mars Helicopter to take its first autonomous flight into history.
From the press release.QuoteThe full 30-day flight test campaign will include up to five flights of incrementally farther flight distances, up to a few hundred meters, and longer durations as long as 90 seconds, over a period. On its first flight, the helicopter will make a short vertical climb to 10 feet (3 meters), where it will hover for about 30 seconds.This is probably not going to be a device that stays with the rover throughout its mission. It will probably be deployed early, tested for a month, and then who knows after that. This should be thought of more as a technology demonstration than a full-fledged escort mission.
The RTG powered rovers are huge. Why can't the helicopter be placed on top somewhere to charge its batteries and be checked out while the rover goes about its primary business. Then it could be put on the ground and left behind as the rover moves on, executing its traverse while getting a safe separation distance. If the helicopter can't take off and fly to the rover then the engineering test.
So, few minutes of flight time per day. What is the maximal flight distance per day? It determines the maximal travel distance of the rover per day. I like the idea of the helicopter...
Yes, but I am not sure how to interpret this. During that month the rover will not go anywhere, because the helicopter needs the babying? If so, I understand the worry of the scientists...
Time to rename this thread as NASA has decided to now.