Well now have three separate teams all reporting positive results with two different devices, to me it seem like there something here that need further exploration.
Every generation has thought to themselves that the previous generation is a bunch of stick-in-the-muds who should have a more open mind, waxing philosophical about what might be, and then failed to produce anything new until they adopted a skeptical mindset.. thus becoming the next generation of stick-in-the-muds.We're not skeptical because we think we know it all.. we're skeptical because it works.
Quote from: knowles2 on 08/01/2014 10:14 amWell now have three separate teams all reporting positive results with two different devices, to me it seem like there something here that need further exploration.The EmDrive has nothing to do with Sonny White's device, so it makes no sense to lump them together.And in one of the tests both the test device and the control device showed thrust, indicating the measured effect was a result of error in the test setup, not success by the device.So, not a lot of indication of anything interesting going on.
Since this was done in air, could it be this effect, which is real but unremarkable?
Don't the vacuum fluctuations only exist for 10^-44 s each (the Planck time)? How can you possibly transfer enough momentum to anything in 10^-44 s?
New paper describing encouraging results from the testing of an 'EM-drive' like device.http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=20140006052Hope it stands up to further scrutiny. Could be a real game changer!
Quote from: IslandPlaya on 07/31/2014 03:04 pmNew paper describing encouraging results from the testing of an 'EM-drive' like device.http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=20140006052Hope it stands up to further scrutiny. Could be a real game changer!Hello we've now got two threads on this.I used this existing thread from last year?
Test results indicate that the RF resonant cavity thruster design, which is unique as an electric propulsion device, is producing a force that is not attributable to any classical electromagnetic phenomenon and therefore is potentially demonstrating an interaction with the quantum vacuum virtual plasma.
Thrust was observed on both test articles, even though one of the test articles was designed with the expectation that it would not produce thrust. Specifically, one test article contained internal physical modifications that were designed to produce thrust, while the other did not (with the latter being referred to as the "null" test article)
QuoteThrust was observed on both test articles, even though one of the test articles was designed with the expectation that it would not produce thrust. Specifically, one test article contained internal physical modifications that were designed to produce thrust, while the other did not (with the latter being referred to as the "null" test article)Since one experiment that should NOT have detected thrust did detect thrust, that calls into question whether there was a mistake in the test setup. Since the test chamber was not at a vacuum, I'd call that a very likely source for error. A more promising possibility is it detects thrust in configurations they didn't expect, but the simpler explanation is the former.
The end result for these propellantless propulsion devices is free energy, though.
This is the most lucid article I've read on this and at least it doesn't muddle the two up and it contains some additional comment. Half the problem with this story seems to be the muddled reporting of it.http://www.popsci.com/article/technology/fuel-less-space-drive-may-actually-work-says-nasa?dom=PSC&loc=recent&lnk=5&con=fuelless-space-drive-may-actually-work-says-nasaIt clearly states the device tested was not White's device but it was similar.It also states they are looking for the results to be peer reviewed.
Yes. I did a search before I created a new topic but somehow missed the EM drive thread. Doh!Not sure what to do about it now... Apologies.
Reading the abstract, Crix seems to be on the right track about quantum mechanics, but I don't know enough to speculate from there what would be happening:QuoteTest results indicate that the RF resonant cavity thruster design, which is unique as an electric propulsion device, is producing a force that is not attributable to any classical electromagnetic phenomenon and therefore is potentially demonstrating an interaction with the quantum vacuum virtual plasma.However, it appears to me that there is a problem being ignored by the media that are reporting on this:QuoteThrust was observed on both test articles, even though one of the test articles was designed with the expectation that it would not produce thrust. Specifically, one test article contained internal physical modifications that were designed to produce thrust, while the other did not (with the latter being referred to as the "null" test article)Since one experiment that should NOT have detected thrust did detect thrust, that calls into question whether there was a mistake in the test setup. Since the test chamber was not at a vacuum, I'd call that a very likely source for error. A more promising possibility is it detects thrust in configurations they didn't expect, but the simpler explanation is the former.
If the null device also produced measurable thrust, then the effect is an artifact, to high confidence. This is the reason for having a null sample. It helps makes sure you're not fooling yourself.
