Author Topic: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9  (Read 775102 times)

Offline Johnnyhinbos

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #460 on: 01/15/2019 02:18 am »
Looking at the drone picture of current work at 'the mound' and comparing to the EIS layout, the current ramp is a temp. But the work doesn't seem to allow for the HIF. Thinking that HIF and the launch pad will be eliminated since they are not required for testing, just the support building.

The existing ramp goes over the spot for the water tower. Or so says eyeballing.
And past the RP-1 storage (which should provide a clue that those plans are probably a wee bit stale).
John Hanzl. Author, action / adventure www.johnhanzl.com

Offline WindyCity


And past the RP-1 storage (which should provide a clue that those plans are probably a wee bit stale).
I thought the SH would be using methalox Raptor engines.

Offline Nomadd

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #462 on: 01/15/2019 04:28 am »
 Checking out old sd cards and found my first photo of the launch site.
 That stick has been a few places.
« Last Edit: 01/15/2019 04:31 am by Nomadd »
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Offline Tommyboy

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #463 on: 01/15/2019 03:32 pm »

And past the RP-1 storage (which should provide a clue that those plans are probably a wee bit stale).
I thought the SH would be using methalox Raptor engines.
Correct, and it wont need the HIF Kansan52 talked about. Johnnyhinbos is trying to hint to Kansan52 that the plans he is referring to are way outdated.

Offline Kansan52

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #464 on: 01/15/2019 04:25 pm »
Let me try this again, yes, the EIS is old and for F9. But SX seems to be attempting to stay within the EIS. Never indicated the EIS is not old.

So, guessing they will keep the support building and the water tower. So the water tower or the existing ramp will need to be moved. No HIF. Maybe the flame trench when the start testing the Starship.


Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #465 on: 01/15/2019 07:39 pm »
If the EIS needs revising for Boca Chica site. Which agencies does the reviews & approvals?

Offline RoboGoofers

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #466 on: 01/15/2019 08:27 pm »
Resolution is too low to tell. But roller compacted concrete isn't pretty. And Elon likes everything to look good. Look at that bottom of the ramp edge. Thats looks like gravel to me.

Musk is very practical too, so don't discount something just because it's not pretty.

Yes, but no forms? Did anyone see them lay out rebar & tie it up to verticals. So it's floating in the concrete as its poured? It's a tedius process.

I guess if this pad is only for hop tests of the SS & SH test vehicles. Then having the concrete crack up in a few years doesn't matter.🤔

Ned

I don't know the first thing about concrete and have no opinion as to whether it's gravel or concrete, but the RCC pavement council website says:
Quote
RCC does not require forms, hand finishing or steel reinforcement. Jointing was not common in early RCC placements, however current practices recommend joints to control cracking and improve surface appearance.

Offline RoboGoofers

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #467 on: 01/15/2019 08:30 pm »
If the EIS needs revising for Boca Chica site. Which agencies does the reviews & approvals?
Similarly, what kind of permits do you need to build a giant 9m diameter test rocket on your property? I know I can't do that without a permit.
« Last Edit: 01/15/2019 08:30 pm by RoboGoofers »

Offline John Alan

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #468 on: 01/15/2019 08:33 pm »
If the EIS needs revising for Boca Chica site. Which agencies does the reviews & approvals?
Similarly, what kind of permits do you need to build a giant 9m diameter test rocket on your property? I know I can't do that without a permit.

You can if the structure is mobile... Typical building permits only apply to fixed structures...  ;)

Offline Tommyboy

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #469 on: 01/15/2019 10:08 pm »
If the EIS needs revising for Boca Chica site. Which agencies does the reviews & approvals?
Similarly, what kind of permits do you need to build a giant 9m diameter test rocket on your property? I know I can't do that without a permit.

You can if the structure is mobile... Typical building permits only apply to fixed structures...  ;)
But can you consider the Hopper mobile considering it will (should?) always occupy the same footprint, albeit at a not-so-regular height at times?

Online docmordrid

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #470 on: 01/15/2019 11:23 pm »
If the EIS needs revising for Boca Chica site. Which agencies does the reviews & approvals?
Similarly, what kind of permits do you need to build a giant 9m diameter test rocket on your property? I know I can't do that without a permit.

You can if the structure is mobile... Typical building permits only apply to fixed structures...  ;)
But can you consider the Hopper mobile considering it will (should?) always occupy the same footprint, albeit at a not-so-regular height at times?

In terms of building codes, yes.

In terms of immobile vehicles like a jalopy, so long as it's demonstrably moved, and has license tags if required, it's not considered "derilict." Rockets don't need tags.  Neither does my yard tractor, which often sits outside.
« Last Edit: 01/15/2019 11:27 pm by docmordrid »
DM

Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #471 on: 01/16/2019 04:19 pm »
If the EIS needs revising for Boca Chica site. Which agencies does the reviews & approvals?

The FAA.

Revising the EIS requires a public comment period, so we'll know if/when this happens.

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #472 on: 01/16/2019 07:33 pm »
Cross-posting, not just a launch site in Boca Chica:

Quote
In blow to Los Angeles, SpaceX is moving its Mars spaceship and booster work to Texas

By SAMANTHA MASUNAGA
JAN 16, 2019 | 12:10 PM
 
In a reversal of a deal local officials touted as a win for Los Angeles tech, SpaceX will no longer be developing and building its Mars spaceship and rocket booster system at the Port of Los Angeles. Instead, the work will be done in South Texas.

https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-spacex-port-of-la-20190116-story.html

Offline philw1776

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #473 on: 01/16/2019 07:53 pm »
Watching the San Pedro video where local pols and organizations welcomed SpaceX I noted strong union representation. I wonder if ongoing discussions and progress with local authorities, etc. was moving WAY too slowly for SpaceX and they realized that their schedule would be decelerating not accelerating?  As we have seen union shop is no way compatible with Silicon Valley SpaceX modus operandi.

Offline Wargrim

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #474 on: 01/16/2019 08:01 pm »
Wow. This certainly solves the transportation question. This is 100% enabled by the change from Carbon Composites to Stainless Steel.

But where would they have enough space to build the Booster here? Of course Texas isnt automatically Boca Chica, but if you want to be very close to the launch site, it has to be Boca Chica / Brownsville area.

I thought they would move Starship final assembly here from parts built in LA, but it almost seems that after finishing the Orbital Starship Prototype parts they are currently working on, the LA tent will move to Texas? If they even still need a factory/tent... BFWTB...  :o ?

I have no idea of the soil conditions on all the SpaceX properties in Boca Cica. Cause more years soil surcharging doesnt sound like it fits the timeline. But assuming it is dry enough, Booster + Starship factory (Tent) goes where they built the Hopper, just with a bigger tent? Or put the factory at the shipping channel? I mean Bocy Chica wont stay the only launch site, thats for sure... Having a Booster stuck in Texas doesnt sound better than having a Booster stuck in LA. Or will they switch to 100% final assembly at Launch Sites and never ship bigger parts than quarter cyclinders/quarter bulkheads?

Appologies if this stretches the thread focus a bit, but these news simply trample all over thread borders, impacting Starship + Booster + LA + Texas...

PS: This might even be the reason Elon wanted the photoshoot out of the way. By showing the Hopper standing in a texan swamp, he makes the news to move the factory into a texan swamp look like a minor thing.

Offline Wargrim

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #475 on: 01/16/2019 08:06 pm »
Watching the San Pedro video where local pols and organizations welcomed SpaceX I noted strong union representation. I wonder if ongoing discussions and progress with local authorities, etc. was moving WAY too slowly for SpaceX and they realized that their schedule would be decelerating not accelerating?  As we have seen union shop is no way compatible with Silicon Valley SpaceX modus operandi.

Possible, but i would think it is more about labour cost (Water Tower welders, anyone?), Property cost, Space for expansion (no pun), cost of living and solving the transportation issue. All enabled by material + manufacturing change.

Unless Hawthorne retains the engine manufacturing, this looks quite negative for California in the medium/long term, with F9 family supposed to fade out.

(PS: With sites in Cali, Texas, Florida, put one more down in Alabama and yell "Politics Bingo"! No, not really, just a thought.  ??? )
« Last Edit: 01/16/2019 08:13 pm by Wargrim »

Offline MikeAtkinson

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #476 on: 01/16/2019 08:07 pm »
Cross-posting, not just a launch site in Boca Chica:

Quote
In blow to Los Angeles, SpaceX is moving its Mars spaceship and booster work to Texas

By SAMANTHA MASUNAGA
JAN 16, 2019 | 12:10 PM
 
In a reversal of a deal local officials touted as a win for Los Angeles tech, SpaceX will no longer be developing and building its Mars spaceship and rocket booster system at the Port of Los Angeles. Instead, the work will be done in South Texas.

https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-spacex-port-of-la-20190116-story.html

This provides one answer to the question "why are they in such a hurry with the BFH?", because they wanted to check that Boca Chica is suitable for building the ship before they close the San Pedro site.

(That is probably not the only reason)

Offline philw1776

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #477 on: 01/16/2019 08:08 pm »
The factory does not have to be at Boca or Brownsville.  There are cities and areas all along the Texas coast that could be accessible ports.  Combine this with speculation of offshore launch sites and this gets really interesting.
I had opined that SpaceX would NOT move airframe manufacturing to Texas because employees might not want to be there and would be hard to motivate.  After last week, it might be easier.
Bottom line, we don't know the specific location(s) yet.
FULL SEND!!!!

Offline MikeAtkinson

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #478 on: 01/16/2019 08:16 pm »
Situation has changed since December:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1076611280700530688

Quote
What is being made in San Pedro now? Will you return to manufacturing in San Pedro after the initial prototype or do you think Texas manufacturing is the way to go?

Quote from: Elon
We’re building subsections of the Starship Mk I orbital design there
« Last Edit: 01/16/2019 08:17 pm by MikeAtkinson »

Offline Oersted

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 9
« Reply #479 on: 01/16/2019 08:16 pm »
"So it is not surprising that some would have us stay where we are a little longer to rest, to wait. But this city of Houston, this State of Texas, this country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them. This country was conquered by those who moved forward--and so will space."

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