Author Topic: Why we need to go back to the moon  (Read 74387 times)

Offline nickyp

  • Member
  • Posts: 48
  • Glasgow, Scotland
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Why we need to go back to the moon
« Reply #200 on: 10/24/2010 12:35 am »

Come on people, think!

People pay bucks to HAVE FUN.

Hit the nail on the head! As the fictional news reader on From the Earth to the Moon said ''we went to the moon to take those pictures!''

Offline butters

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2399
  • Liked: 1694
  • Likes Given: 601
Re: Why we need to go back to the moon
« Reply #201 on: 10/24/2010 01:52 am »
We can go to the moon to have fun (lottery?).

We can go to the moon to create/save jobs.

But we really go to the moon to celebrate our cultural identities.  The Apollo sites are monuments to the greatness of humanity and American culture in particular.  We say we came in peace for all mankind, but we really came in resolve to one-up the Soviet Union and demonstrate our cultural superiority.

The moon landings are part of our collective consciousness.  They still influence the extent of our ambitions and our self-affirming confidence.  America may not be the world leader in math or science, but we lead the world in confidence. 

We landed on the moon.  There's nothing we can't do.  What is the cultural value of this consciousness?  What is the economic value?

These days, there are plenty of what might be described as "bummers" for the American consciousness as the center of global economic power shifts eastward.

How important is it that America beat China to the moon?  We already won the Space Race, but does that matter to the majority of Americans who do not remember the Apollo program?  What happens to the American consciousness when China is the center of high technology as well as high-volume manufacturing?

Fun is great.  But ego is stronger. 

Why go back to the moon?  Jealousy.  Rivalry.  Competition.

Offline spacester

  • Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 332
  • Liked: 41
  • Likes Given: 178
Re: Why we need to go back to the moon
« Reply #202 on: 10/24/2010 02:11 am »
Great list! Is it cool if I distill it a bit and number it for our further purposes?

1. Playing on Luna
2. Honeymooners
3. People who like to climb mountains, crawl in caves, scuba dive, fly
4. Lunar goods and services
5. Defending humans from NEO's and other Solar System events
6. Lunar treasure chest of resources and opportunities
7. Farming and gardening
8. Diving and swimming ... water lovers
9. Lovely art from Luna
10. Mining on Luna .... happy owners
11. High tech Lunar jobs
12. Inventions related to space exploration
13. Research results
14. Industrial products
15. Peaceful interaction and exciting experiments
16. Comfortable Lunar retirement communities
17. A diversity of large telescopes on Luna
18. Lunar theme parks
19. Robots on the Moon
20. Lunar casinos
21. Professional and amateur Lunar games and physical competitions
22. Geology expeditions
23. Lunar cats purring and jumping
24. Lunar beauty competitions, fashion shows, ballet, and modern dance
25. Lunar novels, magazines, movies, TV programs, and Internet connections

All in all, many kinds of work, homes, and pleasurable activities on the Moon should be quite doable. We now know the Moon has the resources needed for its sustainable development. When will the great rush to Luna begin?


Such a nice list!

OK, so given the future existence of the needed infrastructure we can sanely project that all the "advanced" activities of Mankind, whether commerce or play or both, could and would be conducted on the moon, forming a self-interacting economy that would engender wealth accumulation and societal advancement back on Earth.

So an end state can be envisioned where all this takes place.

Our task then is to chart and follow a path from where we are today to that end state.

This shifts the debate from "why go" to "how do we use the end state to create a program driver to start down a reasonable path to get there".

Of course, the end state suffers from the giggle factor and the first objective is to get people to take lunar development seriously. Some people know how to take the business of fun seriously, some just have fun and some abstain from fun. We space enthusiasts need to be the first type.

Where we are today can fairly be summed up thusly:

When any of the people on your list can afford $20 million tickets to LEO.

Dragon on Falcon 9 brings that number down quite a bit but still the point remains. That quite reasonable viewpoint indicates a limit to working backwards from the end state, in that for many it is literally inconceivable that the future could differ so markedly with the past in terms of rate of progress.

We should keep the idea of working backwards from the end state but I'll set it aside for the moment.

We know what our great-great-grandfathers would have thought of the idea of doing what Apollo did, so if we are going to continue this exercise at all, we must assume such a profound change in the state of affairs. Indeed, it becomes an imperative, our mission as it were, to cause that change to happen, where we suddenly make sure and steady progress to that end state. IMO that bandwagon is already rolling forward nicely and has been since ~2005.

But it isn't just a matter of bringing that number down from $20M. Whatever the cost of a ticket is, it represents revenue. These days we think in terms of programs and expenditures, but to start down this path of progress we need to think in terms of capital investments and customers and revenue streams. In our end state the government spending will be a fraction of the total.

So in that sense the emergence of "NewSpace" heralds the beginning of this shift in thinking.

What I yearn for is to add another shift in thinking, that of HAVING FUN being a legitimate component of the set of goals that we wish to achieve with our space activities.

To have fun, to play, we need to be comfortable. Indeed, "play" has just been scientifically defined (for the first time?), much to my delight:

Burghardt sums up his five criteria in one sentence: "Play is repeated behavior that is incompletely functional in the context or at the age in which it is performed and is initiated voluntarily when the animal or person is in a relaxed or low-stress setting.

A relaxed and low-stress environment is a specification for the infrastructure we need on the moon. Thanks to the volatiles available (Holy Cow! 20%?) we can start work right away with that in mind.

Landed Bigelow Habs are a great start, but we need to build structures and seal and equip them using ISRU as much as possible.

The first step down this path to this end state IMO should be the establishment of a Lunar Industrial Park, not to explore but to develop industrial technologies from ISRU ideas. Which technologies? Those that seem most important to creating the structures we'll need to start having fun.

What kind of fun? There's a list up there of 25 things to choose from, just to get started.

Offline savuporo

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5152
  • Liked: 1002
  • Likes Given: 342
Re: Why we need to go back to the moon
« Reply #203 on: 10/24/2010 02:15 am »
Actually i heard that LCROSS data sets were falsified. In the original readings they saw large traces of Wensleydale.
Orion - the first and only manned not-too-deep-space craft

Offline HappyMartian

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2713
  • Tap the Moon's water!
  • Asia
  • Liked: 16
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: Why we need to go back to the moon
« Reply #204 on: 10/24/2010 10:41 am »
Actually i heard that LCROSS data sets were falsified. In the original readings they saw large traces of Wensleydale.

No, not large traces! The correct LCROSS data readings were 100% pure Wensleydale...

That Wensleydale cheese is new,
Lulu Wu must have told you.
I really love it too, yes I do.
It is creamy white and blue,
And so true that it's good for you!
Sometimes I give a piece or two
To that frisky young kangaroo
Who jumps out of the Lunar Zoo.
That cheese is better than honeydew.
And here is what you ought to do...

All that high-quality pure Wensleydale cheese would sell the Moon to cheese lovers from all over the Solar System.

Pizzas covered with lots of Wensleydale cheese would sell the Moon to happy customers from across the Milky Way.

Superb Lunar Wensleydale cheese submarine sandwiches would sell the Moon to submarine folks from every sea in the Universe.

These tasty Wensleydale cheese balls would sell the Moon to snack food lovers in nine million galaxies.

Lasagna with layers of lovely Wensleydale cheese would sell the Moon to Garfield and every cat, tiger, and lion on Earth, if they could get to it before I do.

Yep, all that Wensleydale cheese is a veritable Lunar gold mine waiting to be tapped by some smart business folks. The Wensleydale Cheese Moon Company will soon be a dominate force in the business circles of many galaxies. Wall Street movers and shakers will be nervous mice whenever a fat cat from the Wensleydale Cheese Moon Company even winks at them...

So hear me loud and clear you Rocketeer,
Please have lots of cheer and no fear,
Because it is now quite obviously clear
That a lovely and dear enormous sphere
Of Wensleydale cheese is very near.


Cheers!  ;)


« Last Edit: 10/24/2010 02:09 pm by HappyMartian »
"The Moon is the most accessible destination for realizing commercial, exploration and scientific objectives beyond low Earth orbit." - LEAG

Offline sdsds

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7222
  • “With peace and hope for all mankind.”
  • Seattle
  • Liked: 2072
  • Likes Given: 1980
Re: Why we need to go back to the moon
« Reply #205 on: 02/02/2024 07:39 pm »
The utopian outcome would be Garden Earth, Industrial Moon.[...]

Can anyone provide the original source for this phrase? My google-fu seems to be lacking a reference.
— 𝐬𝐝𝐒𝐝𝐬 —


Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography