Buy a bunch of Teslas.
Quote from: Steve D on 09/28/2016 06:06 pmBuy a bunch of Teslas.Are the current reservation numbers for the Model 3 online? Would be interesting to see whether there is a sudden jump.
Hi all, I have never started a thread before, but I think this might be an important enough topic to break with that habit. Also, if any of the mods think this is the wrong place for discussing this, please move the thread to a better place.Like probably many of you, I have seen Elon's speech yesterday and was blown away by the audacity of his plan. I think it was brilliant and completely crazy at the same time. One reason why it can be concieved it as crazy today (and perhaps as visionary tomorrow) is the lack of a funding plan. No, stealing underpants will not get us to Mars.But what will? If you say "nothing" to this and the title question, so be it. But what if you are wrong?If we take Elon by his word, and say, 10 billions over 10 years are necessary to make this a reality - can a group of clever people work together and create a value of 10 billions or more over the course of 10 years? Certainly! Think, for example, Snapchat - founded only 5 years ago, it has a value of 19 billions today (I know its not exactly that easy, but you get the general idea). Of course, whatever could finance the Mars mission doesn't have to be a fancy community app. Could it be a trust? A "Mars bank" where people can deposit a part of their savings to be invested for the benefit of the Mars program? (of course, the first trap to avoid would be the one of the dodgy company...)So I am thinking - is there any way that could get us from here, today, to a world where a group of enthusiastic tech-entrepreneurs donate most of their newly-gained wealth - as they said they would from the beginning - to finance the first manned mission to Mars?What can WE do? What could YOU do?
I have wondered if it is possible for them to establish a tax exempt endowment. Universities have them, but universities are supposedly "non-profit" (cough-Ahem) organizations. Perhaps if the endowment were limited only to scientific R&D and not directly to commercial for-profit aspects like F9, it could be thus structured. I am attaching the disclaimer that I am no tax attorney and have no idea whatsoever if such a thing is feasible.My own experience in watching family members inherit money from other family members is that the beneficiary often does not have an appreciation for all the hard work that went into earning the money. Usually I see the inherited money quickly squandered. My wife and I have accumulated a comfortable nest egg, and our daughter, who has done very well in university, is set to garner a higher income than we. I have always believed she would appreciate more things she earned on her own than things gifted easily and freely from us as her parents.If such an endowment existed at SpaceX, I surely would consider bequeathing a considerable portion of my estate to that fund.Thoughts? Opinions?
Tell him why AMOS-6 mysteriously exploded so he can get back to earning money...
The Mars Society and/or The Planetary Society come to mind as good examples of how space enthusiasts can achieve results. Establishing a consortium of some sort to advocate for the ICT plan might be the way forward.
What can WE do? What could YOU do?
Funny, The Mars Society and The Planetary Society come to my mind as good examples of how space enthusiasts can fail to achieve anything of substance.
I like the kickstarting idea. But for a lot of people to donate you have to capture their imagination and make them passionate. Nobody shells money without expecting anything in return without passion. Certainly Elon does a lot to show where his hearth (and money) are, and surely his message is stronger and more widespread than NASA's #JourneyToMars. But that doesn't suffice. I noticed NatGeo has covered the IAC speech on Twitter and I read SpaceX is deeply involved with their new TV series 'Mars' about future manned missions. It's clear from the trailer that SpaceX provided them with an early insight on ITS design. Maybe we will see other collaborations of this kind in the future?Personally I bought 100$ worth of swag on their store, it's a drop of water but as a student I can't really afford more than that. And that terraforming mug is awesome
Quote from: AbuSimbel on 09/29/2016 09:19 amI like the kickstarting idea. But for a lot of people to donate you have to capture their imagination and make them passionate. Nobody shells money without expecting anything in return without passion. Certainly Elon does a lot to show where his hearth (and money) are, and surely his message is stronger and more widespread than NASA's #JourneyToMars. But that doesn't suffice. I noticed NatGeo has covered the IAC speech on Twitter and I read SpaceX is deeply involved with their new TV series 'Mars' about future manned missions. It's clear from the trailer that SpaceX provided them with an early insight on ITS design. Maybe we will see other collaborations of this kind in the future?Personally I bought 100$ worth of swag on their store, it's a drop of water but as a student I can't really afford more than that. And that terraforming mug is awesome well when the first ITS comes back, it could bring quite a lot of mars material, including stones. I would be willing to pay quite a lot to have my hands on some of the first martian rocks brought back. rocks would be by far the cheapest way to reward donors. But then again: I think the first ITS cargo back will be fully purchased by nasa, all agencies, universities, etc..........
Quote from: francesco nicoli on 09/29/2016 12:59 pmQuote from: AbuSimbel on 09/29/2016 09:19 amI like the kickstarting idea. But for a lot of people to donate you have to capture their imagination and make them passionate. Nobody shells money without expecting anything in return without passion. Certainly Elon does a lot to show where his hearth (and money) are, and surely his message is stronger and more widespread than NASA's #JourneyToMars. But that doesn't suffice. I noticed NatGeo has covered the IAC speech on Twitter and I read SpaceX is deeply involved with their new TV series 'Mars' about future manned missions. It's clear from the trailer that SpaceX provided them with an early insight on ITS design. Maybe we will see other collaborations of this kind in the future?Personally I bought 100$ worth of swag on their store, it's a drop of water but as a student I can't really afford more than that. And that terraforming mug is awesome well when the first ITS comes back, it could bring quite a lot of mars material, including stones. I would be willing to pay quite a lot to have my hands on some of the first martian rocks brought back. rocks would be by far the cheapest way to reward donors. But then again: I think the first ITS cargo back will be fully purchased by nasa, all agencies, universities, etc..........There will have been many other flights before that will have returned mars material long before the first ITS flight.
Theoretically, ITS could bring back 25 tons of Mars rocks or so. 40 kg for every donor if there are 1 million of them... (realistically, it will be less, but you get the point).
"We" don't need to do anything other than going to work for Spacex. If it is going to happen, it will be because Spacex will continue to be a healthy company and make money to support this endeavor (along with a few real investors).
Kickstarting is going to be a drop in the bucket.
Buying swag? Swag is suppose to be given out free. If somebody wants me to advertise for them, they pay me or give me the item for free.
Quote from: Bynaus on 09/29/2016 01:06 pmTheoretically, ITS could bring back 25 tons of Mars rocks or so. 40 kg for every donor if there are 1 million of them... (realistically, it will be less, but you get the point). And it will have no value in those quantities. It is no longer rare
"We" don't need to do anything other than going to work for Spacex. If it is going to happen, it will be because Spacex will continue to be a healthy company and make money to support this endeavor (along with a few real investors). Kickstarting is going to be a drop in the bucket. Buying swag? Swag is suppose to be given out free. If somebody wants me to advertise for them, they pay me or give me the item for free.
This is a good point - which I forgot in my last "summary" post above, sorry! - but not everybody has the right skills to work for SpaceX, or the right passport (ITAR). Furthermore, the ITS's problem is probably not lack of skill or workforce, but lack of funding.
Might be a better political tactic to campaign for a general increase to the NASA budget than to try to shift SLS (CXP jr) to a different track. Rerouting SLS money might be seen as an attack.This A.M. the report was the Japanese Olympics will cost them $30 billion after the $40 billion that China spent and the $50 billion Russia spent. Mars Olympics?
Yes, but I think Musk was using Kickstarter as a metaphor for crowdfunding. Think of a modern version of how the Statue of Liberty was funded and that would be closer to what he is shooting for.
Mars Flight Lotteries. $5 USD for a one-way trip and $25 USD for a round trip. Knowing the space geeks out there, as well as the extreme sports fanatics, (skiing on the Martian Ice Caps, climbing Olympus Mons, exploring the Vallis Marinaris, spelunking the Martian lava tubes, etc.) one could EASILY raise billions of dollars per lottery, especially if it were made an international thing.
Military budgets are outrageous ... A typical Aircraft Carrier today: " Our newest aircraft carrier requires a smaller crew but still takes big bucks to build. Its total cost, including personnel, is $26.8 billion. Now under construction, the Gerald R. Ford-class carrier is due to enter service in 2015 with a crew of 4,660 – 500 fewer than older carriers thanks to technology improvements.Nov 4, 2012New Aircraft Carriers Less Crew More Cost - Face the Facts USA" http://www.facethefactsusa.org/facts/New-Aircraft-Carrier-Does-More-with-Less-Crew
Just if I can take my Kneissl White Star with me (I have both, old straight ski (2m) and new racing carvers(1,92m)).
Pick-up Amazon as a sponsor or offer them as a provider for "home delivery" on Mars...
In comparison to so many expenditures for our government for example: SLS expenditures and authorized funds exceed 17 Billion. Military budgets are outrageous ... A typical Aircraft Carrier today: " Our newest aircraft carrier requires a smaller crew but still takes big bucks to build. Its total cost, including personnel, is $26.8 billion. Now under construction, the Gerald R. Ford-class carrier is due to enter service in 2015 with a crew of 4,660 – 500 fewer than older carriers thanks to technology improvements.Nov 4, 2012New Aircraft Carriers Less Crew More Cost - Face the Facts USA" http://www.facethefactsusa.org/facts/New-Aircraft-Carrier-Does-More-with-Less-Crew Companies could decide to fund it out of profits for a share of the resulting economy: Apple Computer: Net Income $ 53,394 (in Millions) so that 53.394 Billion in Income. Google: Net Income 16.348 BillionEven if the investment happened over a period of years, it is doable. and like so many have mentioned, one of us might form the next google or Apple and become that investor or one of them too!
Lobby NASA to get SLS cancelled and then use funds to fund ITS dev.
Quote from: CraigLieb on 09/29/2016 05:50 pmMilitary budgets are outrageous ... A typical Aircraft Carrier today: " Our newest aircraft carrier requires a smaller crew but still takes big bucks to build. Its total cost, including personnel, is $26.8 billion. Now under construction, the Gerald R. Ford-class carrier is due to enter service in 2015 with a crew of 4,660 – 500 fewer than older carriers thanks to technology improvements.Nov 4, 2012New Aircraft Carriers Less Crew More Cost - Face the Facts USA" http://www.facethefactsusa.org/facts/New-Aircraft-Carrier-Does-More-with-Less-Crew Don't need a colony but need a military
In deference, and with the utmost respect to Jim, I wasn't saying we need to not have a military, only that budgeting for a $10 Billion project is quite doable if priorities were perceived as high. It is viable commercially and or via a shared government stake. The highway system was originally considered a defense project. So too can a rocket that can deliver "payloads" in 25 minutes anywhere on the planet.
... That is not to say some of these companies could not fork over investments into space development, in fact some already have....
Also in that vain get several Powerwall tm units for your house along with a SolarRoof tm from Tesla Energy and Solar City.
Quote from: CraigLieb on 09/30/2016 01:04 pmIn deference, and with the utmost respect to Jim, I wasn't saying we need to not have a military, only that budgeting for a $10 Billion project is quite doable if priorities were perceived as high. It is viable commercially and or via a shared government stake. The highway system was originally considered a defense project. So too can a rocket that can deliver "payloads" in 25 minutes anywhere on the planet. the government has no need for such a project
By the same criteria, it also has no 'need' for SLS, or any research project, that doesn't, apparently, have military benefits. In the same way, the human population has no need for a new iPhone, or a new series of Game of Thrones, or a better mouse trap.Sometimes, you just have to do something because you can.
Quote from: FinalFrontier on 09/30/2016 08:21 am... That is not to say some of these companies could not fork over investments into space development, in fact some already have....Exactly this was my point! Companies can choose to invest and have deep enough pockets to do so possibly in exchange for a stake, exclusive rights or sponsorship potential. Google, Apple, Microsoft, or possibly NBC/Universal (NBC/Solar System?)
Quote from: JamesH65 on 09/30/2016 02:09 pmBy the same criteria, it also has no 'need' for SLS, or any research project, that doesn't, apparently, have military benefits. In the same way, the human population has no need for a new iPhone, or a new series of Game of Thrones, or a better mouse trap.Sometimes, you just have to do something because you can.No, not on order of thisSLS produces jobs and votes.
Practically all government expenditure produce jobs and votes. Tax cuts also produce jobs and votes. It is a fallacy that government programs like SLS produce jobs.
The question is where is the money best spent.
Quote from: DarkenedOne on 09/30/2016 02:41 pmPractically all government expenditure produce jobs and votes. Tax cuts also produce jobs and votes. It is a fallacy that government programs like SLS produce jobs. It produces jobs and votes in key states. I am just stating reality. I do not support SLS. Quote from: DarkenedOne on 09/30/2016 02:41 pm The question is where is the money best spent. Where the most votes are
Some thoughts/ideas:. Remember that this is an interplanetary transport. Maybe a bit too much focus on just Mars so far, more selling of the potential versatility.. SpaceX issued credit card? I would sign up and use it. PayPal experience might pay off with this one too.. Kickstarter is a great idea.. Pre-sell tickets like Virgin did, but make good on it!. Volunteer at SpaceX?. Hold a raffle? Tickets should be expensive, like $100 or more. Winner gets two free tickets to Mars!. Get sponsors to put their name and/or logo on the booster and/or the ship. (I keep seeing Viagra painted down the side of that monster and it makes me chuckle). At the supermarket checkout lanes we have those pull off scannable tags to donate $1, $3, or $5 to various things. How about a SpaceX one? I would put in $5 every time I purchase groceries.. Ask the new PayPal owners if they would straight up donate a penny per transaction to the cause, for old-time sake and possibly the future of humanity.
If Elon wants to make his dream a reality, he should start playing the political game. It wouldn't hurt to put a factory on the Alabama coast and setup engineers in Huntsville.SpaceX will assemble ITS at KSC, so he's got Florida covered.
Quote from: Fan Boi on 09/30/2016 07:01 pmSome thoughts/ideas:. Remember that this is an interplanetary transport. Maybe a bit too much focus on just Mars so far, more selling of the potential versatility.. SpaceX issued credit card? I would sign up and use it. PayPal experience might pay off with this one too.. Kickstarter is a great idea.. Pre-sell tickets like Virgin did, but make good on it!. Volunteer at SpaceX?. Hold a raffle? Tickets should be expensive, like $100 or more. Winner gets two free tickets to Mars!. Get sponsors to put their name and/or logo on the booster and/or the ship. (I keep seeing Viagra painted down the side of that monster and it makes me chuckle). At the supermarket checkout lanes we have those pull off scannable tags to donate $1, $3, or $5 to various things. How about a SpaceX one? I would put in $5 every time I purchase groceries.. Ask the new PayPal owners if they would straight up donate a penny per transaction to the cause, for old-time sake and possibly the future of humanity.The rest of the US would rather spend their money more wisely on other things.
But "wisely" is subjective, and I for one have spent money on far more wasteful things...
Total annual income to the US cosmetics industry is six times what it would cost to do ITS.
Quote from: ThereIWas3 on 09/30/2016 08:05 pmTotal annual income to the US cosmetics industry is six times what it would cost to do ITS.How many billions a year do people spend on Cigarettes? Junk Food? Gambling? Credit card debt? Botox? The amount of money the US spends on objectively stupid/wasteful things is probably larger than the GDPs than all but the largest nations....
Quote from: ZachF on 09/30/2016 08:11 pmQuote from: ThereIWas3 on 09/30/2016 08:05 pmTotal annual income to the US cosmetics industry is six times what it would cost to do ITS.How many billions a year do people spend on Cigarettes? Junk Food? Gambling? Credit card debt? Botox? The amount of money the US spends on objectively stupid/wasteful things is probably larger than the GDPs than all but the largest nations....Women "need' cosmetics, they don't need ITS. I know that is a sexist statement but I wanted to keep it short and not add all the other qualifiers.and others "need" those things too. It is well within their rights. We don't need to dictate what is better for them. The nanny state is large enough. Like mined people on this forum are a small fraction of the population. That is one of the reasons I don't believe the US gov't should be involved in space colonization. It should be up to the market place and NGO's.